Tunney Versus jack Johnson who wins and why

[Dr. Z]

How many heavyweights did Tunney face ?
How many of them were punchers?
Just one, Dempsey who floored him for a long count .

Um, Heeny was a heavyweight. Tunney fought lots of guy above the light heavyweight limit. Just one right? Johnson and Tunney about the same size. Tunney had a 2' reach advantage. Johnson was a shade taller, .5 "

Unlike Johnson who avoided matches vs the best for 1908-1915 and beyond Tunney fought plenty of hall of fame guy in their prime, not the young, inexperienced, or old members that made the hall of fame. Whom do you choose?

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[Ivich]

Um, Heeny was a heavyweight. Tunney fought lots of guy above the light heavyweight limit. Just one right? Johnson and Tunney about the same size. Tunney had a 2' reach advantage. Johnson was a shade taller, .5 "

Unlike Johnson who avoided matches vs the best for 1908-1915 and beyond Tunney fought plenty of hall of fame guy in their prime, not the young, inexperienced, or old members that made the hall of fame. Whom do you choose?

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T

No ****** ! Just one puncher! Jesus Christ!
Tunney fought one HOF heavyweight who was past his prime and had him down for 18seconds .
Tunney fought 27 men above 175lbs,all of them white!

[Dr. Z]

T

No ****** ! Just one puncher! Jesus Christ!
Tunney fought one HOF heavyweight who was past his prime and had him down for 18seconds .
Tunney fought 27 men above 175lbs,all of them white!

Ok, Dempsey was past his prime at age 32, and performance had nothing to do with Tunney swift feet. By the way Tunney had Dempsey down too. Look at the film, its Dempsey fault that he didn't respect the neural corner and Tunnney won 18-19 rounds out of 20. Yes Tunney fought white men, you greet them with anti antipathy with the one exception of Dempsey who you do not listed ages and weights against. By the way Dempsey drew the color line too and had one fights vs an African american where he was luck to have it called a draw.

Johnson and Dempsey in the late 1950sJohn Lester Johnson 179 lbs drew with Jack Dempsey 181 lbs by NWS in round 10 of 10

• Date: 1916-07-14
• Location: Harlem S.C., New York, New York, USA
• Referee: Billy 'Kid' McPartland

Dempsey reportedly received $100 and Johnson $200. It was the first "mixed" bout allowed since the ban had been lifted, according to the New York Sun.

Opinions as to the winner were divided. Also, the weights mentioned varied from one newspaper to another.

The headline in the New York Sun read: Johnson Outpoints Dempsey and Local Boxer Has Easy Time Beating Salt Lake City Lad.

One New York newspaper gave this report in a one-inch story: "John Lester Johnson outpointed Jack Dempsey in the Harlem Sporting Club last night. Dempsey failed to live up to the reputation that he earned in Salt Lake City, and was an easy mark for the local boxer."

Another newspaper reported: "Neither boxer was ever in danger, but at the finish Johnson was very tired from the heavy punishment he received in the mid-section and around the head."

The New York World called the fight "a fast ten-round draw."

The New York Tribune reported: "John Lester Johnson won over Jack Dempsey."

The Salt lake Tribune reported: "Jack Dempsey, the Salt Lake heavyweight, who has been causing such a stir among New York fans since he left here recently, last night won by a big shade over John Lester Johnson, one of the toughest negro fighters in New York. In their ten-round bout before the Harlem Sporting club, according to a telegram received by Dempsey's manager, Jack Price."

Shortly before Dempsey won the World Heavyweight Championship in 1919, The Cedar Rapids Evening Gazette quoted him as saying the following about his fight with John Lester Johnson: "In the second round, Johnson pulled something on me I had never seen before. He just lifted my right arm up high and then soaked me in the ribs. He broke three of 'em for me. He hit me on the chin in that round, too, and I saw many a star. He knew too much for me. ... I thought he licked me. I didn't know how to fight then, and Johnson did. Yes, I think he won and he taught me more that night than I have ever dreamed of before."

In the January 1960 issue of Ebony, Johnson was quoted as saying the following about his fight with Dempsey: "I said that night that he was going to be champion. That guy could really hit. He hit me so hard and so fast for a while there I could hardy get my breath."

Dempsey later hired Johnson as a sparring partner.

Johnson was the last African-American fighter Dempsey would face during his career.

>>> Okay who did he face before that was African American?

[GhostofDempsey]

Oh I can admit when I'm wrong and I've done so on this forum, it's just that you haven't managed to prove me wrong so far!
Can we take it that you admit I'm not a Langford hater?
News Flash. Johnson did not make the fights with Ross and Kaufman promoters did,because they knew black v white contests with the champion being black and would make $$$$$$,
Johnson merely took advantage of the racial prejudice prevalent at the time can you blame him for that?
Yeah ,I forgot who I was asking,of course you can!

Of course Johnson knew he would beat them both easily! What should he have done ? Said I refuse to fight these two challengers for very good purses because they are not in my class? That happens a lot doesn't it? lol

I'd give Tunney a very good chance of beating Johnson ,and saying so causes me no grief whatsoever!
ps Langford turned down a fight with Kaufman.Crucify me for mentioning it!

Ross had no stamina where did you get that idea?
Denver Rocky Mountain News reported that Ross gave the far more experienced Flynn "the fight of his life". Referee E.W. ****erson disqualified Ross for a low blow, but later called Ross "the next heavyweight champion" in his 9/13/07 column. this fight went18rds
Ross's 1911 10rds draw with Jeannette
New York Times and NY Sun. Joe landed more punches but Ross landed harder ones and came on strong at the end.

Johnson fought who he wanted to fight. He chose Ross and Kaufman, laughed at the two of them when watching from ringside. They were easy pickins. He said himself he preferred easier white hopes to tough black contenders and his resume speaks to that as champion. From one side of your mouth you admit they were no-hopers, from the other side you insist they were competitive contenders. Make up your mind drunky.

Ross was 35-22-13, are you really comparing him to Tunney?

[Ivich]

Ok, Dempsey was past his prime at age 32, and performance had nothing to do with Tunney swift feet. By the way Tunney had Dempsey down too. Look at the film, its Dempsey fault that he didn't respect the neural corner and Tunnney won 18-19 rounds out of 20. Yes Tunney fought white men, you greet them with anti antipathy with the one exception of Dempsey who you do not listed ages and weights against. By the way Dempsey drew the color line too and had one fights vs an African american where he was luck to have it called a draw.

Johnson and Dempsey in the late 1950sJohn Lester Johnson 179 lbs drew with Jack Dempsey 181 lbs by NWS in round 10 of 10

• Date: 1916-07-14
• Location: Harlem S.C., New York, New York, USA
• Referee: Billy 'Kid' McPartland

Dempsey reportedly received $100 and Johnson $200. It was the first "mixed" bout allowed since the ban had been lifted, according to the New York Sun.

Opinions as to the winner were divided. Also, the weights mentioned varied from one newspaper to another.

The headline in the New York Sun read: Johnson Outpoints Dempsey and Local Boxer Has Easy Time Beating Salt Lake City Lad.

One New York newspaper gave this report in a one-inch story: "John Lester Johnson outpointed Jack Dempsey in the Harlem Sporting Club last night. Dempsey failed to live up to the reputation that he earned in Salt Lake City, and was an easy mark for the local boxer."

Another newspaper reported: "Neither boxer was ever in danger, but at the finish Johnson was very tired from the heavy punishment he received in the mid-section and around the head."

The New York World called the fight "a fast ten-round draw."

The New York Tribune reported: "John Lester Johnson won over Jack Dempsey."

The Salt lake Tribune reported: "Jack Dempsey, the Salt Lake heavyweight, who has been causing such a stir among New York fans since he left here recently, last night won by a big shade over John Lester Johnson, one of the toughest negro fighters in New York. In their ten-round bout before the Harlem Sporting club, according to a telegram received by Dempsey's manager, Jack Price."

Shortly before Dempsey won the World Heavyweight Championship in 1919, The Cedar Rapids Evening Gazette quoted him as saying the following about his fight with John Lester Johnson: "In the second round, Johnson pulled something on me I had never seen before. He just lifted my right arm up high and then soaked me in the ribs. He broke three of 'em for me. He hit me on the chin in that round, too, and I saw many a star. He knew too much for me. ... I thought he licked me. I didn't know how to fight then, and Johnson did. Yes, I think he won and he taught me more that night than I have ever dreamed of before."

In the January 1960 issue of Ebony, Johnson was quoted as saying the following about his fight with Dempsey: "I said that night that he was going to be champion. That guy could really hit. He hit me so hard and so fast for a while there I could hardy get my breath."

Dempsey later hired Johnson as a sparring partner.

Johnson was the last African-American fighter Dempsey would face during his career.

>>> Okay who did he face before that was African American?

Yes Dempsey was floored and the referee moved in and began counting immediately,meanwhile Tunney was nowhere near a neutral corner! ps Dempsey fought 3 black fighters and had numerous black sparring partners such as ;
Tate, Panama Joe Gans,Larry Gains, Godfrey, Johnson,If he was leery of black fighters why did he have black spar mates? Tunney never did!

[Ivich]

Johnson fought who he wanted to fight. He chose Ross and Kaufman, laughed at the two of them when watching from ringside. They were easy pickins. He said himself he preferred easier white hopes to tough black contenders and his resume speaks to that as champion. From one side of your mouth you admit they were no-hopers, from the other side you insist they were competitive contenders. Make up your mind drunky.

Ross was 35-22-13, are you really comparing him to Tunney?

Im not comparing Ross to anybody I never mentioned him! You brought his name up not me!
Yes Johnson preferred to fight white no hopers for$30,000 a time rather than the 3 best fighters who happened to be black for less money .Wouldn't you?LOL
I never said those fights were competitive I posted
reports that proved they were one sided, easy fights!
Are you sure you're not the drunk here because you are arguing against a case that hasn't been made!
Your hatred seems to have taken over your brain!
I apologised for one line I made in an earlier post and deleted it from the original,but if it gives you comfort to call me a drunk fill your boots,you're mugging yourself by doing so, not me!

[GhostofDempsey]

Im not comparing Ross to anybody I never mentioned him! You brought his name up not me!
Yes Johnson preferred to fight white no hopers for$30,000 a time rather than the 3 best fighters who happened to be black for less money .Wouldn't you?LOL
I never said those fights were competitive I posted
reports that proved they were one sided, easy fights!
Are you sure you're not the drunk here because you are arguing against a case that hasn't been made!
Your hatred seems to have taken over your brain!
I apologised for one line I made in an earlier post and deleted it from the original,but if it gives you comfort to call me a drunk fill your boots,you're mugging yourself by doing so, not me!

When I mentioned Jack going the distance with them you defended them. Had I said they were tough opponents with loads of stamina you would have fought me on it. You can’t make up your mind which side of the fence you want to be on. Then you go on to say Langford ducked Kaufman, which isn’t true. There were two stories behind the Kaufman fight, one was that his manager had money troubles with Sam Hester in SF, and the fight was pulled. The other is that Sam had trained for a light exhibition, only to be told at the last minute it would be a real fight. He insisted on being paid more for a real fight which he hasn’t trained for and his demand was declined which cancelled the fight. Either way, it’s ludicrous to think he ducked Kaufman, especially since he defeated Jeannette shortly after.

[Ivich]

When I mentioned Jack going the distance with them you defended them. Had I said they were tough opponents with loads of stamina you would have fought me on it. You can’t make up your mind which side of the fence you want to be on. Then you go on to say Langford ducked Kaufman, which isn’t true. There were two stories behind the Kaufman fight, one was that his manager had money troubles with Sam Hester in SF, and the fight was pulled. The other is that Sam had trained for a light exhibition, only to be told at the last minute it would be a real fight. He insisted on being paid more for a real fight which he hasn’t trained for and his demand was declined which cancelled the fight. Either way, it’s ludicrous to think he ducked Kaufman, especially since he defeated Jeannette shortly after.

Nope I pointed out the circumstance of those fights and asked you why you thought Ross had no stamina.a question you still havent answered .
I didnt say Langford ducked Kaufman I said he refused an offer to fight himTrue or False?
Langford insisted he be paid more for real fight than if he was just going through the motions in an exhibition? Sounds very reasonable to me,rather like Johnson wanting to get well paid for facing his most dangerous opponents!

Kaufman was one of the best of the white hopes that the American public wanted Johnson to defend against,he had wins over
O Brien
Lang
Gardner
Barry
Schreck
Not too shabby.

[GhostofDempsey]

Nope I pointed out the circumstance of those fights and asked you why you thought Ross had no stamina.a question you still havent answered .
I didnt say Langford ducked Kaufman I said he refused an offer to fight himTrue or False?

He did not refuse an offer to fight him. The fight was scheduled and the terms were either changed or there were financial obstacles that were the fault of his manager. You are trying to be sneaky suggesting Langford ducked him. Ross was a squat, out of shape journeyman who was known as much for his eating prowess more than anything else.

[Ivich]

He did not refuse an offer to fight him. The fight was scheduled and the terms were either changed or there were financial obstacles that were the fault of his manager. You are trying to be sneaky suggesting Langford ducked him. Ross was a squat, out of shape journeyman who was known as much for his eating prowess more than anything else.

You havent answered the question.

Q . WHY DO YOU SAY ROSS HAD NO STAMINA?
Now all you have to do is answer it! QUACK QUACK

ps Jeffries refused to fight Kaufman too.