Is Mayweather in the running for GOAT?

[them_apples]

Next post please. Technical error.

Here's the problem:

For decades boxing has been a greasy sport, ducking, cherry picking, throwing fights, marketing fraud - In Mayweathers era he did everything right which allowed him to stay undefeated.

It still all happened in all the other eras, just generally tougher fights were made for entertainment. Ali introduced excitement through stake building by talking ****. Promoters positioned fighters in such a way so THEY could make the most money. Leonard was one of the first I heard to openly admit it.

Fighters fight for money.

If we put Floyd in another era, he might have lost more, but racked up a lot of great wins as well.

One of the best resumes in boxing is Ezzard Charles. He fought top competitors multiple times. he might have the deepest resume in boxing ever based on quality. He did however rack up some losses because of it.

In contemporary terms the closest we have is Evander Holyfield, he seemed to fight everyone, and multiple times. He as well grabbed losses and of course, brain damage.

If we judge Floyd on his era he did everything right, if we judge him being thrown into another era, he still may have been a good fighter. Likewise, Someone like Duran may have been discarded after losing to De jesus in fighting in the modern era.

If we are judging accomplishment Floyd is at least in the standing, if we are judging head to head? He probably loses a lot - because past era were better suited to create better more seasoned fighters.

[Willie Pep 229]

That said, Floyd's ability to deliver blows without taking return fire is one of the many qualities that makes him great. Fights are scored on the basis of 4 things. 1 Effectiveness aggressiveness, 2.Ring generalship, 3. Clean punches and 4. Defense
I'm not telling you something you don't already know, I'm just giving my reasoning why I feel Floyd is in the GOAT discussion. Very few boxers do all 4 thing consistently well. Floyd is masterful at all 4. Notice there's no points for taking a beating.

Yea there is . . . So your audience doesn't walk out on you; so you don't drive an entire younger generation to MMA.

The GOAT has dove the gme0 into boredom. Bout after bout we watched him prove over and over every talents you listed above. Then three fat wanna be told us how wonderful he was.

You are very correct there was no reason for him to RISK anything, you would give him your money no matter how boreing he was.

Great boxer, second reate prize fighter.

But just my opinion.

[GhostofDempsey]

The main idea in boxing is to land clean punches without getting punched. Mike Tyson did it by overwhelming his opponent. That preserved him, as 20 of his fights were 1 round knockouts. Floyd has great defense and throws clean accurate punches. He had 27 KO's that way. That's what preserved him. The first thing we're coached on before our first sparring session is defense. I think the casual boxing fan has little appreciation for defense. They think surviving beatings as being tough. Can Floyd take a punch? Well, he's 50-0 with 27 KO's, many wins against champions, so of course he can. Can he survive a beating? Who knows. Nobody was good enough to give him a beating. Floyd Mayweather Jr. one of the A.T.G.'s.

All of that is well and good, but he never fought an elite level opponent at their best. They were either on their way down or on their way up from prime, not at their best weight, or battle worn. Not to mention the ones he avoided altogether. It’s easier to achieve 50-0 when you make a name on fading names or rising names and you have all the advantages going in.

[them_apples]

Yea there is . . . So your audience doesn't walk out on you; so you don't drive an entire younger generation to MMA.

The GOAT has dove the gme0 into boredom. Bout after bout we watched him prove over and over every talents you listed above. Then three fat wanna be told us how wonderful he was.

You are very correct there was no reason for him to RISK anything, you would give him your money no matter how boreing he was.

Great boxer, second reate prize fighter.

But just my opinion.

if they aint fighting what are we watching. the goal was to beat the other guy up. if nobody get's beat up then what are we watching? a dancing contest?

[Willie Pep 229]

if they aint fighting what are we watching. the goal was to beat the other guy up. if nobody get's beat up then what are we watching? a dancing contest?

I assume you are agreeing with me . . . So let me pull the other side's argument out my ass . . . If you really get off on watching 'boxing' and watching two men spar - Money was a treat to watch. For some that's OK, for me it's not enough. I want to watch a prize fight.

[Anthony342]

I agree with this. Heres the problem: lets look at two seminal figures post the golden days of Duran, leonard, Hagler... Roy Jones and Mayweather. Jones beat two fellow possible ATG's in Toney and Hopkins, at an age near prime... he did so convincingly and beat other great fighters like McCallum, though past prime. Mayweather never beat a fellow ATG at prime... his fight with Pac could have gone either way... it was not a dominant performance by either guy... Canelo was young...

I even put Andre Ward as fighting better comp than Mayweather. Again, Ward won convincingly against excellent fighters consistently that imo were on average higher calibre than Floyd's wins.

Floyd is ATG at 135, but would not make my top ten list either.

You know, it's funny. When I say the same thing on here, I get attacked and criticized. Nice to know others finally agree with me. Maybe the next time, some of you can come to my defense? First certain opponents like Cotto or Margharito were mentioned and he retired after going 39-0. Then when he comes back, he insisted on fighting Marquez at a catchweight. Then Mayweather seemed willing to fight anyone but when the subject of Pacquiao came up it was "only if he takes strict drug testing." Then that's agreed upon, so the guy throws another obstacle at Manny with a money split until 5-6 years go by before the fight happens. If Floyd wanted the fight that bad, he would've done whatever he could to make it happen sooner. But he didn't, so not the GOAT. Talented yes. Maybe even the best of his generation. But Sugar Ray Robinson, he isn't.

[ShoulderRoll]

Floyd had agreed to everything in 2009 to fight Pacquiao. And it was Pacquiao who walked away because stricter drug testing was requested... that will forever be a stain on the Filipino.

For most of his career Floyd didn't have the power to make fights with Oscar or Mosley on his time table, they were the A-sides. They only fought him when they were good and ready to.

Bob Arum kept Cotto away from Floyd when both were at Top Rank because the young Puerto Rican wasn't ready and needed to marinate. Arum also said that the money Floyd wanted wasn't there for a De La Hoya fight. So Floyd bought out his contract, left Arum, and went on to turn himself into the most financially successful boxer in history. Never again fighting any Top Rank fighters until Pacquiao.

Do I think he is the GOAT? No. That's Sugar Ray Robinson. But if you're going to criticize Floyd then at least get the story straight.

He did remove 49-0 from the boxing hall of records at least. Something that needed doing in my opinion, as that mark excessively flattered Marciano and too many people used it to overinflate his actual ability and reputation.

[Willie Pep 229]

Floyd had agreed to everything in 2009 to fight Pacquiao. And it was Pacquiao who walked away because stricter drug testing was requested... that will forever be a stain on the Filipino.

For most of his career Floyd didn't have the power to make fights with Oscar or Mosley on his time table, they were the A-sides. They only fought him when they were good and ready to.

Bob Arum kept Cotto away from Floyd when both were at Top Rank because the young Puerto Rican wasn't ready and needed to marinate. Arum also said that the money Floyd wanted wasn't there for a De La Hoya fight. So Floyd bought out his contract, left Arum, and went on to turn himself into the most financially successful boxer in history. Never again fighting any Top Rank fighters until Pacquiao.

Do I think he is the GOAT? No. That's Sugar Ray Robinson. But if you're going to criticize Floyd then at least get the story straight.

He did remove 49-0 from the boxing hall of records at least. Something that needed doing in my opinion, as that mark excessively flattered Marciano and too many people used it to overinflate his actual ability and reputation.

So . . . Money is a great fighter because he went 49-0 (or 50-0 if you like) - but Marciano is now deflated in importance because Money matched his achievement by going 49-0.

How does greatest matching greatness diminish greatness?

A=B and B=C, but A doesn't equal C?

[ShoulderRoll]

So . . . Money is a great fighter because he went 49-0 (or 50-0 if you like) - but Marciano is now deflated in importance because Money matched his achievement by going 49-0.

How does greatest matching greatness diminish greatness?

A=B and B=C, but A doesn't equal C?

Mayweather is a great fighter because he is a great fighter.

But now people can't unthinkingly say Marciano is the best ever just because of his undefeated record,

[Willie Pep 229]

Mayweather is a great fighter because he is a great fighter.

But now people can't unthinkingly say Marciano is the best ever just because of his undefeated record,

Ok it was 'best ever' you took issue with - that I can understand.