Differentiating “style” from “skill”

[billeau2]

this is why I almost didn't even want to respond, he missed my point entirely and now I am wasting my time trying to to explain it! and going down a wormhole in the same process

He is a snitch who will kiss the mods collective butts to get some credability.
Then instead of dialoging about observations regarding specific things we take for granted in boxing, he comes out with outrageous jargon and tries to browbeat anyone who does not take his lack of proof and knowledge laden BS as fact. Truly he is a vile troll... Lol.

Example: He tried to dismiss the adage "styles make fights" and falsely stated it came from a source... his reasons for such a conclusion? They are not reasons but incorrect statements that a casual fan would make with no knowledge of any combat activity.

[them_apples]

The bolded... Proof you missed his point.
the last two paragraphs also show how you entirely missed the point. Because you are an idiot. ThemApples is dealing with specific techniques/skills that are emulated and MAY WELL be used in a totally different style... thats too hard for your brain to digest.

exactly the point I was making. kudos to you I guess I'm not crazy.

[IronDanHamza]

Except that Mayweather was never way past his prime, nor is 37 even an age where you are way past your prime in 2020 when you fight twice a year, and in this case someone who doesn’t take much damage and always stayed in shape. A bit past his prime sure but not way past his prime, thats a massive exaggeration. In his very last fight he totally schooled Andre Berto.

yes styles do make fights and Maidanas style on paper should have been easy for Floyd. Unless of course you are admitting Maidana has skills that are hidden by his rugged style, which was my point.

He was about 7 or 8 years removed from his prime. Clearly substantially slower in every department, riddled with injuries for about 10 years and had been a pro for 18 years, 17 at world level.

So yes, WAY past his prime at that point.

Combined with Maidana’s size, and gruelling style, he caused an old Mayweather problems.

Not so much to do with skill levels.

[them_apples]

He was about 7 or 8 years removed from his prime. Clearly substantially slower in every department, riddled with injuries for about 10 years and had been a pro for 18 years, 17 at world level.

So yes, WAY past his prime at that point.

Combined with Maidana’s size, and gruelling style, he caused an old Mayweather problems.

Not so much to do with skill levels.

Floyd was about 15% behind his best version (at 147). This part is up for debate though. the rest, not so much.

Floyd campaigned at 147 for a very long time, Maidanas size had nothing to do with this fight at all, he was even shorter than Floyd - naturally heavier sure, but this wouldn't mean anything because Floyd had fought at 147 for the majority of his career. If size meant so much then damn near everyone Floyd fought was arguably "bigger than Floyd". I guess size only matters with Maidana?

WAY past his prime? massive exaggeration. The man retired undefeated, never officially touched down, never caught a beating and never left the gym. Was ALWAYS in shape. on top of this he was 37, which isn't an age someone is WAY past their prime if all the above is checked off the list. If you get out of shape or catch beatings your entire career sure - but don't compare someone who fought twice as much as Floyd and got knocked out 4 times on the same playing field in regards to age. We did see an even older Floyd school Andre Berto.

[War Room]

Almost funny as you calling Hagler a plodder, I should put that caption under him fighting Briscoe. YES he did fight different than Ray. I am talking about his skill set. are you agreeing with me now???

Hagler plods forward alot, he could get on his toes, but he's not good on his toes.

Example of skill: slipping a jab and countering with a right cross and left hook hook to the sternum. You can teach the same skill to anyone regardless of their build. for some it may work better than others.

Left hook hook to the sternum? The angle is impossible, you made that up and YDKSAB. You mean left uppercut? This is the sternum =--->




How you gonna hit that target my guy and with a left hook after a right hand lmao? You would have to be standing on their left side aiming horizonal. Stop pretending like you know what you're talking about. You're trying to talk about basic combinations which all fighters are taught in their first months of boxing. Every boxer and their mother are taught to slip the right hand by dipping left and shooting an uppercut to the ribs followed with a right hand. All fighters learn pretty much the same combo's.

Now you called Hagler a boxer puncher, which technically is what Robinson is (who "fights nothing like Hagler"), but you also Called Hagler a plodder who walks forward all the time. Which one is it?

Ray is a master of all styles and a lot of people recognize him as one of the best counter-punchers in history =---> technically.

Hagler plods forward a lot, what do you want me to say?

And no, He beat Ray because: He had a great jab (skill) and he was harder to hit than he looks. Ray lands but Lamotta "rides" shots very well that old footage tends to obscure. BOTH men have said this in interviews - and literally nobody can actually just eat punches flush and keep coming.

Hey man, whatever you think is what you're going to stick with. You're obviously set in your way. Ray is my favorite boxer, I got pictures of him on my wall. I've got loads of his fights, seen every bit of media on him, my first trainer was taught Ray's style and my style was the same. I'm not that far off from being a curator of the Ray Robinson museum.

Facts are Ray's schedule up until that loss was insane and never will another man in Earths history will be able to replicate. Jake got lucky. Take a look, don't take my word on it. If Jake was so hard to hit, Ray wouldn't have beaten him 5-1. Go look at the damned fight, Jake isnt hard to hit at all. This is crazy, Lamotta was hard to hit what the hell are you on bro?

exactly the point I was making. kudos to you I guess I'm not crazy.

I can only see his post because you quoted it but let me tell you for a fact =---> billeau2 is 100% crazy, even his kids think he's crazy and I got a $100 bill that his wife says he crazy too. Just check the dome for his official beatdown, he even say's his sons thinks he's nuts, you can read it for yourself. This fool is STILL responding to my threads after knowing for YEARS that he's been on ignore. That's who you're agreeing with.

[IronDanHamza]

Floyd was about 15% behind his best version (at 147). This part is up for debate though. the rest, not so much.

Floyd campaigned at 147 for a very long time, Maidanas size had nothing to do with this fight at all, he was even shorter than Floyd - naturally heavier sure, but this wouldn't mean anything because Floyd had fought at 147 for the majority of his career. If size meant so much then damn near everyone Floyd fought was arguably "bigger than Floyd". I guess size only matters with Maidana?

WAY past his prime? massive exaggeration. The man retired undefeated, never officially touched down, never caught a beating and never left the gym. Was ALWAYS in shape. on top of this he was 37, which isn't an age someone is WAY past their prime if all the above is checked off the list. If you get out of shape or catch beatings your entire career sure - but don't compare someone who fought twice as much as Floyd and got knocked out 4 times on the same playing field in regards to age. We did see an even older Floyd school Andre Berto.

Second time you’ve brought up Andre Berto. Andre Berto wasn’t ranked in the Top 10 at that time and Floyd looked terrible in that fight.

Can you give me a single example of a fighter who has been fighting at world level for 17 years and isn’t well passed their best days? I’ll help you, no you can’t because it doesn’t exist.

Floyd at 37 years old, was about 10 years removed from his prime. That’s the epitome of well passed his best. He was no where near the fighter he once was.

As for Maidana, size played a huge role in his success against Floyd. His size combined with his rough style, combined with Floyd’s aging, slow legs, combined with a few other factors.

Skill not particularly being one of them.

[them_apples]

Hagler plods forward alot, he could get on his toes, but he's not good on his toes.



Left hook hook to the sternum? The angle is impossible, you made that up and YDKSAB. You mean left uppercut? This is the sternum =--->




How you gonna hit that target my guy and with a left hook after a right hand lmao? You would have to be standing on their left side aiming horizonal. Stop pretending like you know what you're talking about. You're trying to talk about basic combinations which all fighters are taught in their first months of boxing. Every boxer and their mother are taught to slip the right hand by dipping left and shooting an uppercut to the ribs followed with a right hand. All fighters learn pretty much the same combo's.



Ray is a master of all styles and a lot of people recognize him as one of the best counter-punchers in history =---> technically.

Hagler plods forward a lot, what do you want me to say?



Hey man, whatever you think is what you're going to stick with. You're obviously set in your way. Ray is my favorite boxer, I got pictures of him on my wall. I've got loads of his fights, seen every bit of media on him, my first trainer was taught Ray's style and my style was the same. I'm not that far off from being a curator of the Ray Robinson museum.

Facts are Ray's schedule up until that loss was insane and never will another man in Earths history will be able to replicate. Jake got lucky. Take a look, don't take my word on it. If Jake was so hard to hit, Ray wouldn't have beaten him 5-1. Go look at the damned fight, Jake isnt hard to hit at all. This is crazy, Lamotta was hard to hit what the hell are you on bro?



I can only see his post because you quoted it but let me tell you for a fact =---> billeau2 is 100% crazy, even his kids think he's crazy and I got a $100 bill that his wife says he crazy too. Just check the dome for his official beatdown, he even say's his sons thinks he's nuts, you can read it for yourself. This fool is STILL responding to my threads after knowing for YEARS that he's been on ignore. That's who you're agreeing with.

Buddy when you slip a jab and cut an angle you can deliver a right cross to the jaw and left hook to the sternum from that angle. Ive literally boxed for 15 years don’t make me laugh trying to educate me. I do it all the time in the gym.

I love how your mouth watered because you think you actually know how to box and aren’t used to running into anyone that actually does. So your half way knowledge to most sounds impressive. I never said it was an advanced combo, I said it was an example of a taught skill.

did you know you can land a left uppercut inside the elbow and hit the sternum from the inside the elbow and outside the elbow? And a fake to the outside of the elbow often makes the oponent pull their elbow back allowing you to drove it into the sternum area.

anymore of this type of arguing and we better start posting videos. I’m not gonna sit here and beat off with you

[them_apples]

Second time you’ve brought up Andre Berto. Andre Berto wasn’t ranked in the Top 10 at that time and Floyd looked terrible in that fight.

Can you give me a single example of a fighter who has been fighting at world level for 17 years and isn’t well passed their best days? I’ll help you, no you can’t because it doesn’t exist.

Floyd at 37 years old, was about 10 years removed from his prime. That’s the epitome of well passed his best. He was no where near the fighter he once was.

As for Maidana, size played a huge role in his success against Floyd. His size combined with his rough style, combined with Floyd’s aging, slow legs, combined with a few other factors.

Skill not particularly being one of them.

You are toning it down more and more each time. And wording it like I am saying he was dead in his prime.

keep it simple, you basically implied its a shell of his former self. I’m saying he was a shade off his prime. Yeah at 37, Floyd was a shade off his prime. Others slide harder and don’t work as hard. Age is only a number. Hopkins prime was probably 40. Sure he declined physically a bit, but his skills and experience peaked. Same goes for Floyd. At 37 this dude wasn’t way past his best days. He was on a very gradual subtle decline. He had a marquee performance against Canelo

[War Room]

Buddy when you slip a jab and cut an angle you can deliver a right cross to the jaw and left hook to the sternum from that angle. Ive literally boxed for 15 years don’t make me laugh trying to educate me. I do it all the time in the gym.

I love how your mouth watered because you think you actually know how to box and aren’t used to running into anyone that actually does. So your half way knowledge to most sounds impressive. I never said it was an advanced combo, I said it was an example of a taught skill.

did you know you can land a left uppercut inside the elbow and hit the sternum from the inside the elbow and outside the elbow? And a fake to the outside of the elbow often makes the oponent pull their elbow back allowing you to drove it into the sternum area.

anymore of this type of arguing and we better start posting videos. I’m not gonna sit here and beat off with you

I was competing in the 90's with world champs in my gym. You never did shit in no gym.

[them_apples]

I was competing in the 90's with world champs in my gym. You never did shit in no gym.

Start posting videos then. And I will too. Who did you spar?