Differentiating “style” from “skill”

[them_apples]

I grew up watching Marvin, I have all of his fights, I've met him. The skills are nowhere near the same. Hagler couldn't change gears, Ray could. Haglers best wins were against smaller guys coming up and in the 13th round against Duran the fight was even. Duran started at 119 lbs. Ray was out for 3 years and blistered Marvin (RIP) with one eye and made it look relatively easy. Robinson would have dominated Marvin.

Hagler plodded coming forward, dipping left and right, boxer puncher. Ray was on his toes, master of all styles, grandmaster of boxing.

You don't even know what the styles are.

LaMotta was a brawler, not a boxer.

Maidana was a brawler and a B+ level one at that. Floyd was old and shot which made Maidana look better than what he was.

Learn about styles here: https://www.boxingscene.com/forums/b...-a-false-adage

No plebs allowed? Dude lol.

You totally missed my point.
entirely.

im not dis*****g what you are saying because most of it is correct. But you totally didn’t understand the point I am making.

hagler wasn’t a plodder, he was a great boxer that occasionally plodded. I have his career set as well. He boxed in many of his fights. In fact against Briscoe he boxed all night.

floyd was not totally shot, we never saw Floyd shot - ever.

Duran was 119 lbs as a starved kid. Not sure why you even brought that up.

lamotta was a brawler, thats his style. His skillset was good though.

it’s almost as if you answered questions before even reading them.

the entire point of this post was differentiating style from skills. Haglers style is different than Robinsons, for various reasons starting with his build. The skills he employed are similar to Robinsons. The way he feints, jabs, and even when he decides to box.

let me ask you a question, if Mike Tyson emulated Alis style would he look anything like Ali? No he wouldn’t - but he could be employing the same skills given he was taught them. Would they work for him? Probably not.

[War Room]

Except that Mayweather was never way past his prime, nor is 37 even an age where you are way past your prime in 2020 when you fight twice a year, and in this case someone who doesn’t take much damage and always stayed in shape. A bit past his prime sure but not way past his prime, thats a massive exaggeration. In his very last fight he totally schooled Andre Berto.

yes styles do make fights and Maidanas style on paper should have been easy for Floyd. Unless of course you are admitting Maidana has skills that are hidden by his rugged style, which was my point.

Mayweather was shot when he fought Maidana. How can any fighter never be past their prime? That's ludicrous.

If you do your research; which you clearly havent, if you turn pro at 18 you're prime is going to end somewhere at 32-34 years of age which is 14-16 years. Sure, factors that can move that needle are how much damage you've taken along the way. But the human physical body in boxing peaks at 32-34, facts. You can fight shittier fights and still look good, but the trained eye can see the wear.

Floyd was prime ended somewhere in the ballpark of Hatton/JMM/Shane. You can make arguments for all three. My pick would be Shane was the last fight in his physical prime.

Hatton, Floyd was perfection. JMM, yes Floyd dominated (a smaller guy) but he took 2 years off at the end of his physical prime, this has to be noted. Shane was a great fight and physically, Floyd moving forward would never be as good.

Styles do not make fights, some old crusty scribe Grantland Rice from the 30's coined that phrase that never had a fight in his life.

But styles make fights and Schmeling’s style is far different from Mann’s.

-Daily **********, “The Sportlight” by Grantland Rice, pg. 10, col. 6: March 7, 1938

Styles are limited, facts. Fighters and the skills that they possess make fights, 100% proven fact.

[them_apples]

Mayweather was shot when he fought Maidana. How can any fighter never be past their prime? That's ludicrous.

If you do your research; which you clearly havent, if you turn pro at 18 you're prime is going to end somewhere at 32-34 years of age which is 14-16 years. Sure, factors that can move that needle are how much damage you've taken along the way. But the human physical body in boxing peaks at 32-34, facts. You can fight shittier fights and still look good, but the trained eye can see the wear.

Floyd was prime ended somewhere in the ballpark of Hatton/JMM/Shane. You can make arguments for all three. My pick would be Shane was the last fight in his physical prime.

Hatton, Floyd was perfection. JMM, yes Floyd dominated (a smaller guy) but he took 2 years off at the end of his physical prime, this has to be noted. Shane was a great fight and physically, Floyd moving forward would never be as good.

Styles do not make fights, some old crusty scribe Grantland Rice from the 30's coined that phrase that never had a fight in his life.


-Daily **********, “The Sportlight” by Grantland Rice, pg. 10, col. 6: March 7, 1938

Styles are limited, facts. Fighters and the skills that they possess make fights, 100% proven fact.

Floyd wasn’t shot. If you have never lost and never been out of the gym or even touched down you are certainly not shot at 37 in 2020+. I won’t say this again because it doesn’t need repeating. Slightly past prime sure. Fighters only fight twice a year these days which is likely why Hopkins had such a long career. a SHOT fighter is someone who has no chance of winning.

It also sounds like you don’t even know the difference between styles and skills. Both Lamotta and Floyd were both great at riding the punches, one brawls and one boxes.

also don’t gaslight me with the first comment. ANY fighter can be shot. But we never saw FLoyd shot in his career. He retired on top. Don’t put words in my mouth to make it look like you have a point.

and styles certainly do make fights, who told you otherwise??

I take back what I said earlier, I actually disagree with 90 percent of the jargon you are spewing right now.

[them_apples]

theres some nice footage of Hagler boxing and moving all night. He likened himself as a boxer first and foremost, but was forced to chase knockouts out of fear of being robbed. he adjusted in fights where he needed to brawl.

He thought he would surprise everyone and outbox Leonard, but it backfired and he quickly switched into pressing because Ray was quicker in every category.

Hagler looked like a brawler sure, with a bald head and stocky build - but his style was actually versatile. He frequently boxed.

[War Room]

You totally missed my point.
entirely.

im not dis*****g what you are saying because most of it is correct. But you totally didn’t understand the point I am making.

hagler wasn’t a plodder, he was a great boxer that occasionally plodded. I have his career set as well. He boxed in many of his fights. In fact against Briscoe he boxed all night.

floyd was not totally shot, we never saw Floyd shot - ever.

Duran was 119 lbs as a starved kid. Not sure why you even brought that up.

lamotta was a brawler, thats his style. His skillset was good though.

it’s almost as if you answered questions before even reading them.

the entire point of this post was differentiating style from skills. Haglers style is different than Robinsons, for various reasons starting with his build. The skills he employed are similar to Robinsons. The way he feints, jabs, and even when he decides to box.

let me ask you a question, if Mike Tyson emulated Alis style would he look anything like Ali? No he wouldn’t - but he could be employing the same skills given he was taught them. Would they work for him? Probably not.

I'm not missing the point, you're missing the plot.

Hagler was a boxer-puncher. That's the style he was taught and and that's the style he fought. There is no discussion on that what so ever, it's facts.

If you don't think Floyd was never shot, you clearly don't know what you're looking at.

If you listen to Duran, he was always starved. Facts are he started at 119 and Hagler was even with him in the 13th. I brought it up because you're comparing his skills to Robinson and that's lunacy.

You said Lamotta was a boxer, but now he's a brawler??

Jake Lamotta was a great boxer with skillful moves.

How about them apples eh lol?

This is why he was able to beat RR.

The reason he beat Ray was Ray was fighting every month sometimes multiple times a month for 3 years straight. He had just gotten off that regiment and taken 2 months off. By todays standards that sounds crazy, but for Ray, that was a long time. Who knows what he did for those 2 months. He had already beaten Jake so.

Haglers feints, jab, and how he boxed is completely different that Rays. This is crazy to read someome type this.

Tyson couldn't emulate Ali's style, he wasn't tall enough. Tyson was fighting big big guys and you can't box those guys being that small. Ali was a pure boxer, Mike had to be a brawler to be the dominant force that he was. His body was designed for his style which is why Cuz led him down that path. As far as Ali's skills, those can't be done with a smaller guy. The way Ali jabbed, the pull counter, the leanbacks, smaller guys can't do that to much bigger guys with that frame.

[them_apples]

I'm not missing the point, you're missing the plot.

Hagler was a boxer-puncher. That's the style he was taught and and that's the style he fought. There is no discussion on that what so ever, it's facts.

If you don't think Floyd was never shot, you clearly don't know what you're looking at.

If you listen to Duran, he was always starved. Facts are he started at 119 and Hagler was even with him in the 13th. I brought it up because you're comparing his skills to Robinson and that's lunacy.

You said Lamotta was a boxer, but now he's a brawler??



How about them apples eh lol?



The reason he beat Ray was Ray was fighting every month sometimes multiple times a month for 3 years straight. He had just gotten off that regiment and taken 2 months off. By todays standards that sounds crazy, but for Ray, that was a long time. Who knows what he did for those 2 months. He had already beaten Jake so.

Haglers feints, jab, and how he boxed is completely different that Rays. This is crazy to read someome type this.

Tyson couldn't emulate Ali's style, he wasn't tall enough. Tyson was fighting big big guys and you can't box those guys being that small. Ali was a pure boxer, Mike had to be a brawler to be the dominant force that he was. His body was designed for his style which is why Cuz led him down that path. As far as Ali's skills, those can't be done with a smaller guy. The way Ali jabbed, the pull counter, the leanbacks, smaller guys can't do that to much bigger guys with that frame.

Almost funny as you calling Hagler a plodder, I should put that caption under him fighting Briscoe. YES he did fight different than Ray. I am talking about his skill set. are you agreeing with me now???

Example of skill: slipping a jab and countering with a right cross and left hook hook to the sternum. You can teach the same skill to anyone regardless of their build. for some it may work better than others.

Example of style: pressure fighter, counter puncher etc

Now you called Hagler a boxer puncher, which technically is what Robinson is (who "fights nothing like Hagler"), but you also Called Hagler a plodder who walks forward all the time. Which one is it?

And no, He beat Ray because: He had a great jab (skill) and he was harder to hit than he looks. Ray lands but Lamotta "rides" shots very well that old footage tends to obscure. BOTH men have said this in interviews - and literally nobody can actually just eat punches flush and keep coming.

[billeau2]

I grew up watching Marvin, I have all of his fights, I've met him. The skills are nowhere near the same. Hagler couldn't change gears, Ray could. Haglers best wins were against smaller guys coming up and in the 13th round against Duran the fight was even. Duran started at 119 lbs. Ray was out for 3 years and blistered Marvin (RIP) with one eye and made it look relatively easy. Robinson would have dominated Marvin.

Hagler plodded coming forward, dipping left and right, boxer puncher. Ray was on his toes, master of all styles, grandmaster of boxing.

You don't even know what the styles are.

LaMotta was a brawler, not a boxer.

Maidana was a brawler and a B+ level one at that. Floyd was old and shot which made Maidana look better than what he was.

Learn about styles here: https://www.boxingscene.com/forums/b...-a-false-adage

No plebs allowed? Dude lol.

You just made all the mistakes in categorizing the skills verus styles that ThemApples mentioned lol.

1. Skills as opposed to style remember?
2. That link is BS and so is your manufactured BS about what constitutes different styles.
3. any idiot that posts his own BS as a guide to some fundamental issue is a troll... that would be you.

[them_apples]

You just made all the mistakes in categorizing the skills verus styles that ThemApples mentioned lol.

1. Skills as opposed to style remember?
2. That link is BS and so is your manufactured BS about what constitutes different styles.
3. any idiot that posts his own BS as a guide to some fundamental issue is a troll... that would be you.

this is why I almost didn't even want to respond, he missed my point entirely and now I am wasting my time trying to to explain it! and going down a wormhole in the same process

[billeau2]

Mayweather was shot when he fought Maidana. How can any fighter never be past their prime? That's ludicrous.

If you do your research; which you clearly havent, if you turn pro at 18 you're prime is going to end somewhere at 32-34 years of age which is 14-16 years. Sure, factors that can move that needle are how much damage you've taken along the way. But the human physical body in boxing peaks at 32-34, facts. You can fight shittier fights and still look good, but the trained eye can see the wear.

Floyd was prime ended somewhere in the ballpark of Hatton/JMM/Shane. You can make arguments for all three. My pick would be Shane was the last fight in his physical prime.

Hatton, Floyd was perfection. JMM, yes Floyd dominated (a smaller guy) but he took 2 years off at the end of his physical prime, this has to be noted. Shane was a great fight and physically, Floyd moving forward would never be as good.

Styles do not make fights, some old crusty scribe Grantland Rice from the 30's coined that phrase that never had a fight in his life.


-Daily **********, “The Sportlight” by Grantland Rice, pg. 10, col. 6: March 7, 1938

Styles are limited, facts. Fighters and the skills that they possess make fights, 100% proven fact.

Bullshiat. YOU challenged that notion and on that thread got your a s s handed to you... Just because you play Ostrich with head in the sand, and do not read certain posts... You may want to because your BS false info about this addage was exposed!

[billeau2]

I'm not missing the point, you're missing the plot.

Hagler was a boxer-puncher. That's the style he was taught and and that's the style he fought. There is no discussion on that what so ever, it's facts.

If you don't think Floyd was never shot, you clearly don't know what you're looking at.

If you listen to Duran, he was always starved. Facts are he started at 119 and Hagler was even with him in the 13th. I brought it up because you're comparing his skills to Robinson and that's lunacy.

You said Lamotta was a boxer, but now he's a brawler??




How about them apples eh lol?



The reason he beat Ray was Ray was fighting every month sometimes multiple times a month for 3 years straight. He had just gotten off that regiment and taken 2 months off. By todays standards that sounds crazy, but for Ray, that was a long time. Who knows what he did for those 2 months. He had already beaten Jake so.

Haglers feints, jab, and how he boxed is completely different that Rays. This is crazy to read someome type this.

Tyson couldn't emulate Ali's style, he wasn't tall enough. Tyson was fighting big big guys and you can't box those guys being that small. Ali was a pure boxer, Mike had to be a brawler to be the dominant force that he was. His body was designed for his style which is why Cuz led him down that path. As far as Ali's skills, those can't be done with a smaller guy. The way Ali jabbed, the pull counter, the leanbacks, smaller guys can't do that to much bigger guys with that frame.

The bolded... Proof you missed his point.
the last two paragraphs also show how you entirely missed the point. Because you are an idiot. ThemApples is dealing with specific techniques/skills that are emulated and MAY WELL be used in a totally different style... thats too hard for your brain to digest.