Your Top Three Mythical Matchups

[Ivich]

Actuality IDK - it use to be that most fighters had to give up to 33 1/3 % to their manager. Sometimes they then had to fork over another 10% to a trainer.

Point being I always thought the promoter took his share out of the profits after the fighters were paid their battle money

Dempsey and Marciano were both losing 50% to their managers Jack Kearns and Al Weill.

Kearns had Dempsey tied up for ten years (1916-1925), and some believe it was why Dempsey stopped fighting in 1923 and didn't fight again until after January '26. Kearns only got 50% of Dempsey's fight purses. (Marciano had a worst deal with the gangster Al Weill - see below), so Dempsey went to Hollywood where he got 100% of the money earned.

The Muhammad Ali Law passed by Congress, (steered through by John McCain back in the 1990s ??), disallowed a manager to take more than 33 1/3 % - it also disallowed a promoter to be a fighter's manager, but there were too many loop holes in that regulation, e.g. Don King would act as promoter and his step son would be the guy's manager. Lol Too easy to get around that one.

Things have changed so IDK, but I do know some things from the past. Such as:

Rickard offered Dempsey a % of the Carpentier gate instead of a guarantee. Kearns insisted instead on a flat 300K up front. - after the fight created a 1.6 million gate, Dempsey, had he taken the %, would have pulled in 476K, instead of 300K, thus leaving 176K on the table (in Rickard's pockets).

Rickard made damn sure the newspaper guys knew about it (that's why I know about it) to make Kearns look inept. It was Rickard's first move in stealing Dempsey away from Kearns.

Also Rickard paid Dempsey 105K for the Brennan fight at MSG. Later in life Rickard would claim it was the only fight he ever lost money on. So I think we can conclude Rickard the promoter got none of Dempsey's purse.

I believe Ali only got about 44% of his purses (before taxes) after everyone took their piece, and with Ali it was a long list. Not sure about this one.

Marciano had a lifetime 50-50 split with Al Weill for any of Marciano's income that was boxing related. Stories tell that after retirement Marciano was so angry when he would show up for a speaking engagement. He would tell the sponsor to keep his two thousand dollar check and give him $500 in cash instead. In short Marciano would take $500 less for himself just to stiff Al Weill out of his $1000.

But since the Muhammad Ali Act was passed by Congress I really don't know the law. I am certain a manager can no longer take a 50-50 split; no lifetime contracts allowed; no promoter can manager the fighter he is promoting. The rest of the regulations I am ignorant of.

Of course I could be wrong about all of the above except the Kearns-Rickard story. That one played out in the newspapers. The others were stories.

Mickey Duff the promoter,matchmaker and manager booked Marciano for a gig in Manchester in November 1963 his friend Allie Colombo managed a guy from Brockton called Mike Pusateri,Duff had matched him to fight Terry Downes.Duff said the most he could afford to give Marciano whose appearance would help sell the show,was $1000.Rocky flew in to Manchester airport looking like a tramp in a jacket with holes in it.Duff got him some smarter clothes and Rocky was at the press conference.After Downes stopped Pusateri in5 rds Marciano asked Duff for $2000 in cash,when Duff told him the deal was for a $1000 cheque Rocky grabbed Duff by the lapels and called him a " rotten son of a *****".Duff sc****d together the sterling equivalent borrowing some to do so.Marciano accused him of short changing him and said,"dont ever speak to me again".They later reconciled and Duff booked him for another engagement in London at a pub belonging to the Mancini family.

[Willie Pep 229]

The $320,000 was after his manager , trainer ,and IRS took their cuts.

OK that at least that then sounds like a decent purse.

I am curious how you found that out. Usually all we hear about is the purse, I have never run across information that spoke to a fighter's net gain, especially what taxes he paid. That is usually privileged information (unless of course you are seeking public office, but even then as we see with Trump one does not have to offer up one's tax information.

What I have run across in old newspapers is what State taxes are levied against the promotion itself (gate receipts). But whether that included or not the personal income tax burden placed on the fighters themseleves I am unaware.

[Willie Pep 229]

Mickey Duff the promoter,matchmaker and manager booked Marciano for a gig in Manchester in November 1963 his friend Allie Colombo managed a guy from Brockton called Mike Pusateri,Duff had matched him to fight Terry Downes.Duff said the most he could afford to give Marciano whose appearance would help sell the show,was $1000.Rocky flew in to Manchester airport looking like a tramp in a jacket with holes in it.Duff got him some smarter clothes and Rocky was at the press conference.After Downes stopped Pusateri in5 rds Marciano asked Duff for $2000 in cash,when Duff told him the deal was for a $1000 cheque Rocky grabbed Duff by the lapels and called him a " rotten son of a *****".Duff sc****d together the sterling equivalent borrowing some to do so.Marciano accused him of short changing him and said,"dont ever speak to me again".They later reconciled and Duff booked him for another engagement in London at a pub belonging to the Mancini family.

Yea Rocky didn t like checks he wanted cash. He was always complaining about money and doing strange things about hiding it. But I didn't know he made himself so difficult to get along with.

[Ivich]

OK that at least that then sounds like a decent purse.

I am curious how you found that out. Usually all we hear about is the purse, I have never run across information that spoke to a fighter's net gain, especially what taxes he paid. That is usually privileged information (unless of course you are seeking public office, but even then as we see with Trump one does not have to offer up one's tax information.

What I have run across in old newspapers is what State taxes are levied against the promotion itself (gate receipts). But whether that included or not the personal income tax burden placed on the fighters themseleves I am unaware.

The original purse was$500,000, after all deductions Mugabi received $320,000.My source is Mickey Duff his manager.

[Ivich]

Yea Rocky didn t like checks he wanted cash. He was always complaining about money and doing strange things about hiding it. But I didn't know he made himself so difficult to get along with.

The day after he arrived in the UK, Kennedy was shot, Rocky took it hard.Duff and Rocky later patched up their differences and Duff booked him for a couple of appearances.

[Willow The Wisp]

Graziano-Greb
Dempsey-Wills
Pep-Mayweather Jr.

I don't care about style or technique, I'll embrace the mayhem while it lasts. Likely Greb but Graziano's right hand could be dangerous for anyone who comes straight at him. (Wish to God we knew how the 'human windmill' actually fought.)

This issue should have been settled, so lets do it now. Dempsey in two rounds with both fighters pulling themselves off the canvas.

Now for style and technique, let's find out if Floyd is as good as 50-0 says he is. Two masters of footwork and positioning, they will frustrate the hell out of each other. Pep by SD because I'm old and I want it that way.

I love the choice of Pep v. Mayweather Jr. If done properly at 126, Pep would've provided PBF with a matrix pill Master Class in reality. People who actually believe that boxing has advanced any since Pep are not people worth discussing boxing with if are not opened to exploring new learning possibilities. This ain't football.

[Willow The Wisp]

I also agree that Dempsey beats Wills. As most of their contemporary experts did (racists or otherwise). Wills was brilliant and would have been a tip top heavyweight in any era including this one, but Dempsey was a freak of nature and feasted on styles & statures fairly similar to Wills'. Prime Dempsey gives him the full treatment and he knew it, wanting that fight like a hog wants slop.

[them_apples]

Golovkin can't just be "given" a win he didn't get! But you're right, golovkin hasn't beaten particularly stiff competition, certainly noone to suggest he would have beaten Hagler. Although he would have height, weight and probably strength advantages over him.

I don't think any of those advantages would show up in the ring. Haglers jab, speed and reach - over all skill level would nullify anything. Hagler is like Hopkins, Mayweather and Pac, he comes in on weight. shredded to the bone.

Yeah GGG is bigger because Hagler was always a small middleweight - he looked the same size as Duran. But look at the mans fists. he's a thoroughbred strong man with a voice deeper than most heavies (barrel chested). I also think he lost a bit of height with age, since the official height gap is about an inch at best.

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[QueensburyRules]

I love the choice of Pep v. Mayweather Jr. If done properly at 126, Pep would've provided PBF with a matrix pill Master Class in reality. People who actually believe that boxing has advanced any since Pep are not people worth discussing boxing with if are not opened to exploring new learning possibilities. This ain't football.

- - Pep also fought at 130-136 same day weighins..

Floyd a major drainer at morning before 130 weighins.

Keep it real...

[them_apples]

I love the choice of Pep v. Mayweather Jr. If done properly at 126, Pep would've provided PBF with a matrix pill Master Class in reality. People who actually believe that boxing has advanced any since Pep are not people worth discussing boxing with if are not opened to exploring new learning possibilities. This ain't football.

the styles changed, the skills have declined. Throwing everything clean and perfectly balanced does not make you a better fighter if a million other intangibles are ignored or missing.