Joe Louis Blamed D'Amato For Floyds Defeat To Ingo.

[Ivich]

I always like to think in that manner.

Can you buy, or buy off, the HW Champion of the World (even back then, certainly not today)? The title brings too much money for the gangsters not to want to control it.

Maybe if Liston had gone off as an overwhelming betting favorite, they could have bet heavy on Patterson and tanked Liston. Then given Liston a rematch with better betting odds and cleaned up on a Liston victory the other way around, next time around.

I think the reality was Liston as a slight favorite for fight #1 and a heavy favorite for fight #2.

I think Patterson was so popular, while everyone in the bizz knew Liston would blow him out in fight #1, public support for the Champion kept the odds too close for a fix to really pay off.

P.S. D'Amato was suspose to be anti-mob and that's why he cut Liston out from a shot at the title, and Patterson had to sever his relationship with D'Amato in order to take the first Liston fight. That fight should have taken place at least two maybe three years earlier. Some say D'Amato used the supposed mob connections for Liston as an excuse to duck him.

The IBC was busted up as a monopoly in 1958 but Carbo and Palmero don't go to prison until 1961.

The fight then takes place in 1962. Don't think it a coincidence; Pattersonn still had to break away from D'Amato to get the fight.

I realize I am over talking what was by you to be just a quick smirk. Sorry, but the mob and boxing is a topic I find most interesting.

The anti mob stance D'Amato projected was BS ,an excuse to avoid the better contenders who were affiliated to the IBC and Carbo and Palermo.D'Amato was connected to the mob via Fat TonySalerno. I think Sharkey was bought or maybe just threatened.the Carnera fight was a dive imo.

[Ivich]

- - Floyd manned up like a true fighter. He ended up fighting just about everyone and has one of the better comebacks after devastating defeats ever.

He was certainly a braver guy than his manager.

[Ivich]

I always like to think in that manner.

Can you buy, or buy off, the HW Champion of the World (even back then, certainly not today)? The title brings too much money for the gangsters not to want to control it.

Maybe if Liston had gone off as an overwhelming betting favorite, they could have bet heavy on Patterson and tanked Liston. Then given Liston a rematch with better betting odds and cleaned up on a Liston victory the other way around, next time around.

I think the reality was Liston as a slight favorite for fight #1 and a heavy favorite for fight #2.

I think Patterson was so popular, while everyone in the bizz knew Liston would blow him out in fight #1, public support for the Champion kept the odds too close for a fix to really pay off.

P.S. D'Amato was suspose to be anti-mob and that's why he cut Liston out from a shot at the title, and Patterson had to sever his relationship with D'Amato in order to take the first Liston fight. That fight should have taken place at least two maybe three years earlier. Some say D'Amato used the supposed mob connections for Liston as an excuse to duck him.

The IBC was busted up as a monopoly in 1958 but Carbo and Palmero don't go to prison until 1961.

The fight then takes place in 1962. Don't think it a coincidence; Pattersonn still had to break away from D'Amato to get the fight.

I realize I am over talking what was by you to be just a quick smirk. Sorry, but the mob and boxing is a topic I find most interesting.

On Louis and an Ali/Cosell relationship.Louis was very close to Jimmy Cannon.

[QueensburyRules]

The anti mob stance D'Amato projected was BS ,an excuse to avoid the better contenders who were affiliated to the IBC and Carbo and Palermo.D'Amato was connected to the mob via Fat TonySalerno. I think Sharkey was bought or maybe just threatened.the Carnera fight was a dive imo.

- - Most fighters fall to the canvas unconscious when blasted by the perfect shot.

[Ivich]

- - Most fighters fall to the canvas unconscious when blasted by the perfect shot.

As opposed to floating up to the lights you mean? A perfect shot that nobody could be sure which part of him connected withSharkey , several ringsiders swore it was a forearm .
A perfect shot that was never duplicated in102 fights , wow that was lucky for the mob!lol

[ShoulderRoll]

Joe Louis' criticism seems to mostly be directed at how Patterson was carefully matched.

More so than at the peekaboo style itself.

[Clegg]

I always like to think in that manner.

Can you buy, or buy off, the HW Champion of the World (even back then, certainly not today)? The title brings too much money for the gangsters not to want to control it.

Maybe if Liston had gone off as an overwhelming betting favorite, they could have bet heavy on Patterson and tanked Liston. Then given Liston a rematch with better betting odds and cleaned up on a Liston victory the other way around, next time around.

I think the reality was Liston as a slight favorite for fight #1 and a heavy favorite for fight #2.

I think Patterson was so popular, while everyone in the bizz knew Liston would blow him out in fight #1, public support for the Champion kept the odds too close for a fix to really pay off.

P.S. D'Amato was suspose to be anti-mob and that's why he cut Liston out from a shot at the title, and Patterson had to sever his relationship with D'Amato in order to take the first Liston fight. That fight should have taken place at least two maybe three years earlier. Some say D'Amato used the supposed mob connections for Liston as an excuse to duck him.

The IBC was busted up as a monopoly in 1958 but Carbo and Palmero don't go to prison until 1961.

The fight then takes place in 1962. Don't think it a coincidence; Pattersonn still had to break away from D'Amato to get the fight.

I realize I am over talking what was by you to be just a quick smirk. Sorry, but the mob and boxing is a topic I find most interesting.

The book Tyson wrote about Cus might be worth you reading, Iron Ambition, it goes into a lot of detail on the disputes/relationship Cus had with the mob and his split with Patterson. Tyson has a very negative view of Floyd, describes him as a coward and a traitor who betrayed and took advantage of Cus.

[QueensburyRules]

As opposed to floating up to the lights you mean? A perfect shot that nobody could be sure which part of him connected withSharkey , several ringsiders swore it was a forearm .
A perfect shot that was never duplicated in102 fights , wow that was lucky for the mob!lol

- - A thousand ringsiders swore to Ali's phantom punch that never happened.

Watch the fight if you can. It's a blistering shot delivered by a Strongman Giant to the jaw wif Sharkey trapped on the ropes, a clear KO out on the canvas. That's the best I can do for you.

[Ivich]

The book Tyson wrote about Cus might be worth you reading, Iron Ambition, it goes into a lot of detail on the disputes/relationship Cus had with the mob and his split with Patterson. Tyson has a very negative view of Floyd, describes him as a coward and a traitor who betrayed and took advantage of Cus.

Tyson writing a book.lol. He wasn't a traitor when he dumped Cayton,and went with KIng then? Coward? Floyd never fouled out to save himself a beating.

[Ivich]

- - A thousand ringsiders swore to Ali's phantom punch that never happened.

Watch the fight if you can. It's a blistering shot delivered by a Strongman Giant to the jaw wif Sharkey trapped on the ropes, a clear KO out on the canvas. That's the best I can do for you.

First watched it when i bought it on super 8mm back in the 60's,Since viewed it about 30 times including slo mo from different angles.I think its an overly theatrical dive on Sharkey's part .
Where it lands is obscured by Carnera's body as is what part of his 'body lands on Sharkey.
Sharkey twice broke training camp to drive home to check on his children,I think he was intimidated into a dive,even his wife thought it was a fake.
Ali's punch landed that is certain could it put a man like Liston down? I don't think so .It was a dive imo.