Joe Louis Blamed D'Amato For Floyds Defeat To Ingo.

[Willie Pep 229]

First watched it when i bought it on super 8mm back in the 60's,Since viewed it about 30 times including slo mo from different angles.I think its an overly theatrical dive on Sharkey's part .
Where it lands is obscured by Carnera's body as is what part of his 'body lands on Sharkey.
Sharkey twice broke training camp to drive home to check on his children,I think he was intimidated into a dive,even his wife thought it was a fake.
Ali's punch landed that is certain could it put a man like Liston down? I don't think so .It was a dive imo.

I don't think intimidation is the answer. - That Sharkey tanked is not impossible, but not from fear, but instead for money. He was at the right point in his career to be bought. I'm not saying he was, only that the timing was right.

The mob and the mob via film are two different characters. The mob seldom tried to screw with people who were not dirty. I.e. they didn't try to mess with 'cilivans' it brought in the authorities too quickly.

This was just about the time that Lucky Luciano created The Syndicate and set the new rules for doing business. One of those rules was you didn't risk bringing the system down upon everyone else by doing something high profile ******.

Best example was Dutch Schultz. District Attorney Thomas Dewey was about to take a second shot at Schultz and was likely going to put him away for 20 years. Schultz said he wasn't going to prison and Dewey would be wacked. The Syndicate told him no, Dewey was untouchable, too high profile, there would be too much public reaction. Dutch Schultz told Lucky Luciano to F-Off and two days later Schultz and his chief capo were dead. Dewey was left untouched (even several years later when he took down Luciano).

The lesson of the Saint Valentine's Day Massacre was a hard lesson for the mob to learn and sensationalized acts were now off the table.

So I find it very difficult to believe anyone threatened Sharkey. I can't believe wacking (or any violence agsinst) the HW Campion of the World was doable.

But as I said up top, I do believe Sharkey was ripe for being bought off. The Depression had really sent the fight game reeling backwards and Sharkey-Schmeling were not getting the same paydays Dempsey and Tunney were getting back in the 1920s.

Maybe Sharkey knew he was at the end and decided to take from both sides for one big payday.

I think people, media, film, and TV overstate the mob's abilities.

[Ivich]

I don't think intimidation is the answer. - That Sharkey tanked is not impossible, but not from fear, but instead for money. He was at the right point in his career to be bought. I'm not saying he was, only that the timing was right.

The mob and the mob via film are two different characters. The mob seldom tried to screw with people who were not dirty. I.e. they didn't try to mess with 'cilivans' it brought in the authorities too quickly.

This was just about the time that Lucky Luciano created The Syndicate and set the new rules for doing business. One of those rules was you didn't risk bringing the system down upon everyone else by doing something high profile ******.

Best example was Dutch Schultz. District Attorney Thomas Dewey was about to take a second shot at Schultz and was likely going to put him away for 20 years. Schultz said he wasn't going to prison and Dewey would be wacked. The Syndicate told him no, Dewey was untouchable, too high profile, there would be too much public reaction. Dutch Schultz told Lucky Luciano to F-Off and two days later Schultz and his chief capo were dead. Dewey was left untouched (even several years later when he took down Luciano).

The lesson of the Saint Valentine's Day Massacre was a hard lesson for the mob to learn and sensationalized acts were now off the table.

So I find it very difficult to believe anyone threatened Sharkey. I can't believe wacking (or any violence agsinst) the HW Campion of the World was doable.

But as I said up top, I do believe Sharkey was ripe for being bought off. The Depression had really sent the fight game reeling backwards and Sharkey-Schmeling were not getting the same paydays Dempsey and Tunney were getting back in the 1920s.

Maybe Sharkey knew he was at the end and decided to take from both sides for one big payday.

I think people, media, film, and TV overstate the mob's abilities.

The mob were all over both training camps.However it was accomplished I think it was a dive.

[Willie Pep 229]

The mob were all over both training camps.However it was accomplished I think it was a dive.

I have no problem with believing that, the newspaper guys knew who was who, so it's more than possible their presence was noted. But I would paint Sharkey as dirty not a victim.

[BKM-]

Tyson writing a book.lol. He wasn't a traitor when he dumped Cayton,and went with KIng then? Coward? Floyd never fouled out to save himself a beating.

LOL I know, what a prick he is.

This in my eyes is yet another indication that Cus' deeply intense relationship with Tyson was something highly inappropriate. If it wasn't something sexual/******ation related, it is at the very least a brainwashing cult-like control he had and still has over him.

No surprise Tyson would lash out at another one of Cus' 'favorites'. Jealousy perhaps. Atleast Floyd rejected Cus' footsie advances, can you say the same, Mike? Ah nvm he's not reading this. Because he can't read.

[Ivich]

LOL I know, what a prick he is.

This in my eyes is yet another indication that Cus' deeply intense relationship with Tyson was something highly inappropriate. If it wasn't something sexual/******ation related, it is at the very least a brainwashing cult-like control he had and still has over him.

No surprise Tyson would lash out at another one of Cus' 'favorites'. Jealousy perhaps. Atleast Floyd rejected Cus' footsie advances, can you say the same, Mike? Ah nvm he's not reading this. Because he can't read.

I've read speculation about D'Amato, but its easy to smear some one who is dead. You haven't done that,but you've implied something unsavoury .
I've just been banned from a site for telling a poster who called President Joe ***** a ***** , a ****.I stand by it.
It's about as nasty a label as can be put on a human being and without a shred of evidence, its pretty cowardly too.

[Willie Pep 229]

I've read speculation about D'Amato, but its easy to smear some one who is dead. You haven't done that,but you've implied something unsavoury .
I've just been banned from a site for telling a poster who called President Joe ***** a ***** , a ****.I stand by it.
It's about as nasty a label as can be put on a human being and without a shred of evidence, its pretty cowardly too.

Yes it is! Yes it is!

[BKM-]

I've read speculation about D'Amato, but its easy to smear some one who is dead. You haven't done that,but you've implied something unsavoury .
I've just been banned from a site for telling a poster who called President Joe ***** a ***** , a ****.I stand by it.
It's about as nasty a label as can be put on a human being and without a shred of evidence, its pretty cowardly too.

I don't recall how old Floyd was during the footsie, maybe he was underaged. I'll get back to you on that. On second thought forget it, I really don't mind dropping the subject on account of the whole thought creeping me out.

[QueensburyRules]

First watched it when i bought it on super 8mm back in the 60's,Since viewed it about 30 times including slo mo from different angles.I think its an overly theatrical dive on Sharkey's part .
Where it lands is obscured by Carnera's body as is what part of his 'body lands on Sharkey.
Sharkey twice broke training camp to drive home to check on his children,I think he was intimidated into a dive,even his wife thought it was a fake.
Ali's punch landed that is certain could it put a man like Liston down? I don't think so .It was a dive imo.

- - Prob an early home production. I'd imagine at least 3 films of a fight like that part of the country where most of the film production occurred.

Ain't what I watched at any rate, and you're still mistaken, though perhaps with some justification now.

[Anthony342]

What did Louis think about Floyd winning the rematch against Ingo? Did he think Cus gave Floyd better strategy or that Floyd won despite D'Amato's training?

[Ivich]

- - Prob an early home production. I'd imagine at least 3 films of a fight like that part of the country where most of the film production occurred.

Ain't what I watched at any rate, and you're still mistaken, though perhaps with some justification now.

You've no idea what I watched.It was commercial film produced by Black Hawk Boxing films. I then bought it on video and later on dvd in a heavyweight collection.If I'm mistaken I'm not alone, many thought it was a fake including Johnny Buckley Sharkey's manager ,who asked him how much he got for diving and Sharkey's Wife!
Carnera was never a puncher those of his stoppage wins that were not set ups over dive artists like Big Boy Peterson and Elzier Rioux were over push overs and no hopers. Carnera over 80lbs heavier hit Loughran with shots all night and could not even wobble him.Loughran was ko'd by Sharkey who has one of the lowest ko percentages of any heavy champ.