Another boxing Myth: Jake Lamotta was a face first brawler who got hit tons

[them_apples]

He said so himself, he rolled the punches well.

Careful inspection of the tapes makes you realize the frame rate is too low to pick up such a subtle neck/shoulder movement. He rolled the punches quite well, he wasn't a counter puncher with his short arms, but his actual defense was very slick + his iron jaw. If you watch that old tape of him at heavyweight, the footage is slightly better and he's clearly out of shape.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FidGxEOE0hA

This is the best footage I found of him, vs a heavyweight, it's not his best form. I'm not saying he's a defensive master - but hes actually got a lot more savvy than people think. When a fighter "rides the shots" it looks like they get hit, but by performing a quick subtle movement in the same direction as the punch right before impact, effectively turns the punch into a "push" because "impact" is actually the only factor that determines if it does any damage, not contact. You see guys like Ali and Duran do this all night, seemingly get hit but have no marks on their faces and never get hurt. It's hard to pick up this skill since the best guys are so subtle at it, but an easy way to tell is what they do when a punch falls short, you should see a small quick pull in whatever direction the perceived punch was coming.

Lastly, nobody can take massive blow after blow to the head and not have any ill effects.

[them_apples]

Bit like Marciano in that folks pretend he had the chin to walk through guys like Charles. No, no one does, he's just underrated in defense is all.

Tommy Ryan is your guy for showing just how powerful the crouch can be. A very underrated technique in my opinion.


If you're lucking for your first instance of attrition that's Glaukos.

He was not trained from a young age and was being beaten badly when his father shouted to him. He mustered himself and leveled his opponent in one punch. This was so shocking he was deified as a river god.

Glaukos is a fun read. Check my thread on champions for dates and places.

made a thread on this a while back, you watch close enough rocky isn't getting hit much at all. Esp in relation to his oponents, who had "better defense than him. Nobody said defense had to be sexy, smothering your opponent inside with head under the chin tactics and grappling can work just as well, if not better, like wise the crouch works well in the middle of the ring.

[Ivich]

He said so himself, he rolled the punches well.

Careful inspection of the tapes makes you realize the frame rate is too low to pick up such a subtle neck/shoulder movement. He rolled the punches quite well, he wasn't a counter puncher with his short arms, but his actual defense was very slick + his iron jaw. If you watch that old tape of him at heavyweight, the footage is slightly better and he's clearly out of shape.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FidGxEOE0hA

This is the best footage I found of him, vs a heavyweight, it's not his best form. I'm not saying he's a defensive master - but hes actually got a lot more savvy than people think. When a fighter "rides the shots" it looks like they get hit, but by performing a quick subtle movement in the same direction as the punch right before impact, effectively turns the punch into a "push" because "impact" is actually the only factor that determines if it does any damage, not contact. You see guys like Ali and Duran do this all night, seemingly get hit but have no marks on their faces and never get hurt. It's hard to pick up this skill since the best guys are so subtle at it, but an easy way to tell is what they do when a punch falls short, you should see a small quick pull in whatever direction the perceived punch was coming.

Lastly, nobody can take massive blow after blow to the head and not have any ill effects.

Fritzie Zivic said Jake was hard to miss with a punch and "he'd get insulted if you missed him."
They fought 4 times.

[Ivich]

Bit like Marciano in that folks pretend he had the chin to walk through guys like Charles. No, no one does, he's just underrated in defense is all.

Tommy Ryan is your guy for showing just how powerful the crouch can be. A very underrated technique in my opinion.


If you're lucking for your first instance of attrition that's Glaukos.

He was not trained from a young age and was being beaten badly when his father shouted to him. He mustered himself and leveled his opponent in one punch. This was so shocking he was deified as a river god.

Glaukos is a fun read. Check my thread on champions for dates and places.

Tommy Ryan's famous crouch nearly got Jim Jeffries licked against Corbett,with Jeff needing a ko to win his manager jumped up in the corner and ordered Ryan out. When Jeffries went on his vaudeville tour with Fitzsimmons, Fitz told him to lose the crouch.

[JAB5239]

Tommy Ryan's famous crouch nearly got Jim Jeffries licked against Corbett,with Jeff needing a ko to win his manager jumped up in the corner and ordered Ryan out. When Jeffries went on his vaudeville tour with Fitzsimmons, Fitz told him to lose the crouch.

If I'm not mistaken Jeff used the crouch his whole career. You can clearly see him using it in his fight with Johnson. Did he just lose the crouch for the rest of the Corbett fight or are you saying the rest of his career? Sorry, I'm just a little confused by this.

[Ivich]

If I'm not mistaken Jeff used the crouch his whole career. You can clearly see him using it in his fight with Johnson. Did he just lose the crouch for the rest of the Corbett fight or are you saying the rest of his career? Sorry, I'm just a little confused by this.

William Brady his manager climbed up in the ring and threw Ryan out .I havent seen Jeffries v Munroe, either Corbett fight or the 2 Fitz fights,nor against Kennedy or Finnegan. A short fighter can gain advantage by making himself even shorter as Marciano did.What would Jeffries ,certainly not a short heavy for his time, gain from the crouch?
Perhaps those boosting Ryan's crouch and its innovatory effectiveness can point us to the footage of him using it so deftly?
For myself I once saw a couple of flickering clips of Ryan sparring and that's my sum total of viewing the Anglo Frenchman with the Irish ring name.

[them_apples]

Tommy Ryan's famous crouch nearly got Jim Jeffries licked against Corbett,with Jeff needing a ko to win his manager jumped up in the corner and ordered Ryan out. When Jeffries went on his vaudeville tour with Fitzsimmons, Fitz told him to lose the crouch.

So a fighter cant lose if they use the crouch? For it to work in so many fights with so many victories.

[them_apples]

Fritzie Zivic said Jake was hard to miss with a punch and "he'd get insulted if you missed him."
They fought 4 times.

thats whats he said. I can think of all sorts of things fighters say. Jake may have given off the persona that he wasn’t scared to be hit. Jake also himself said he would ride the shots and thats why he can speak clearly in old age. We can also watch tapes of him doing this.

zivic, take everything he says with a grain of salt.

[JAB5239]

William Brady his manager climbed up in the ring and threw Ryan out .I havent seen Jeffries v Munroe, either Corbett fight or the 2 Fitz fights,nor against Kennedy or Finnegan. A short fighter can gain advantage by making himself even shorter as Marciano did.What would Jeffries ,certainly not a short heavy for his time, gain from the crouch?
Perhaps those boosting Ryan's crouch and its innovatory effectiveness can point us to the footage of him using it so deftly?
For myself I once saw a couple of flickering clips of Ryan sparring and that's my sum total of viewing the Anglo Frenchman with the Irish ring name.

From what I've read he fought out of a crouch to press forward using his left hook. I'm no expert on Jeffries and not arguing his manager did not throw Ryan out. But I've always read Jim fought out of the crouch and the film available backs that up. That doesn't mean he couldn't have fought another way as Jeffries was very athletic and adaptable in my opinion.

[Ivich]

From what I've read he fought out of a crouch to press forward using his left hook. I'm no expert on Jeffries and not arguing his manager did not throw Ryan out. But I've always read Jim fought out of the crouch and the film available backs that up. That doesn't mean he couldn't have fought another way as Jeffries was very athletic and adaptable in my opinion.

Ryan tried to turn him into a boxer,not a smart move when you are facing Corbett.
After watching the clips of his fights with Ruhlin and Sharkey,I'd call Jeffries stance a half crouch.Not trying to be a pedant.