Fighters who fouled and got away with it

[QueensburyRules]

OK not intentional but still a foul?

If it was unintentional but still a foul Hill should of been given a four minute recovery period.

So you need to go back to your post and take out the 'he turned into the punch' because that makes it sounds like you are defending a foul shot.

He hit him in the back. Yes I agree I may well be the only person you 'literally' heard say this; this shows us how powerful HBO really is; that long reach has infected all your friends except me.

A foul is a foul no matter the date. So say it was a clean shot, don't claim it was Hill's fault.

- - Pep...???

Left and right hooks to short ribs always been legal, ie the sides and front of the torso. I might add shoulders(Canelo most recently) are part of the torso. If not, remove the shoulders from the torso and what remains is flimsy.

Anywhoo, Virg with after audible resounding crack of busted short rib could not continue, so any misconstrued 5 min foul recovery time ain't gonna help him. The fight was Roy's signature victory as an all time great.

Joe Frazier famous for "pulling out kidneys" that are in the "back," but can also be reached by physical reverberations of powerful hooks.

[BattlingNelson]

Question: Is there a HW champ (of reasonable significance), who didn't foul and got away with it? I was considering Frazier, but some of his hooks was definetely kidney shots, and Holmes, but he was also holding and using elbows.

[Willie Pep 229]

- - Pep...???

Left and right hooks to short ribs always been legal, ie the sides and front of the torso. I might add shoulders(Canelo most recently) are part of the torso. If not, remove the shoulders from the torso and what remains is flimsy.

Anywhoo, Virg with after audible resounding crack of busted short rib could not continue, so any misconstrued 5 min foul recovery time ain't gonna help him. The fight was Roy's signature victory as an all time great.

Joe Frazier famous for "pulling out kidneys" that are in the "back," but can also be reached by physical reverberations of powerful hooks.

"No rib was broken, but Hill's manager, Bill Sorenson, said he sustained a hairline fracture of the transverse process, a bony projection from a vertebra. Jones said he set Hill up for the punch by throwing shots at his head for the first three rounds. Apr 27, 1998"


Definition. A transverse process fracture is a break in 1 or more transverse process. These are wing-like bones on the right and left side of each vertebra in the spine.

I guess HBO got to you too. What did they do threaten to cancel your subscription?

Sliver lining: You and and Jab have something in common, you're both wrong!

[JAB5239]

"No rib was broken, but Hill's manager, Bill Sorenson, said he sustained a hairline fracture of the transverse process, a bony projection from a vertebra. Jones said he set Hill up for the punch by throwing shots at his head for the first three rounds. Apr 27, 1998"


Definition. A transverse process fracture is a break in 1 or more transverse process. These are wing-like bones on the right and left side of each vertebra in the spine.

I guess HBO got to you too. What did they do threaten to cancel your subscription?

Sliver lining: You and and Jab have something in common, you're both wrong!

So is it possible the fracture was caused by the force of the punch to the ribs, where it clearly landed? I'm no doctor, but I'm pretty sure trauma can be caused by a wide variety of ways.

On the other hand.....why do you think no one else has claimed this was an illegal punch? That is a serious question. I dont even Think Hills team made such a claim. I respect your opinions even when we disagree.

[Willie Pep 229]

So is it possible the fracture was caused by the force of the punch to the ribs, where it clearly landed? I'm no doctor, but I'm pretty sure trauma can be caused by a wide variety of ways.

On the other hand.....why do you think no one else has claimed this was an illegal punch? That is a serious question. I dont even Think Hills team made such a claim. I respect your opinions even when we disagree.

Why - because HBO had a long term 100 million dollar deal with Jones.

All I can point to is an article by H. L. Mencken regarding the susposed Carpentier right hand that almost fell Dempsey.

It didn't - it didn't even phase Dempsey, but the newspapers the day after were filled with stories of an almost KO.

Why?

Enough to say that the title of the Mencken article is "How Legends get made," and it is a condemnation of the press. People (and the media is people) will bandwagon an opinion if a hierarchical authority gives them the lead.

Especially when it fits an agenda. In this case the refree and HBO commentators were that authority and the media, and thus the fans, followed.

Once the ref started counting everyone took their cue. It started with the refree.

It had been less than a year when Jones was DQed by Tony Perez, for fighting dirty against Griffin and no one needed that situation to occur again.

I'm sure everyone knew a second DQ of Jones would be a problem with HBO, including refree Fred Steinwinder III. (Ever hear if him? Me neither. Check out his resume; no big championship bouts under his belt. [I may have missed a lesser belt.])

It would have taken balls to DQ twice.

A DQed Jones was not on anyone's agenda so no one was going to question the call.

Unquestioned, the press took the decision (attitude) and wrote and talked about yet another great Jones' victory.

There is an appropriate paradox: "a conspiracy of silence."

I can't say what Hill said, I never bother to look but the excerpt above which starts "No ribs were broken" is from Hill's manager.

I saw a shlt punch that doesn't belong as part of the game. You can praise him for it, others may follow that lead, but real men like Willard and Dempsey saw it as a foul punch. Time doesn't change the rules of character in men. On character, 1919 is as valid as 2022.

Unlike a punch to the chin where a fighter can show his toughness by taking it, or getting up from it, a punch like Jones', no one can train for, no one can show their character by taking it, no one can regain their feet.

No different than a punch to the back of the head. The punch fells everyone, no one can stand up to it with toughness, conditioning, or experience. Because of that we do not considered it as part of a fair fight. The kidney punch is in that category.

Also like the rabbit punch it can do serious damage to the vertebrae, as it did Hill.

It doesn't belong in the game.

[QueensburyRules]

Question: Is there a HW champ (of reasonable significance), who didn't foul and got away with it? I was considering Frazier, but some of his hooks was definetely kidney shots, and Holmes, but he was also holding and using elbows.

- - Mo' infamous for his thumbs, called out in the post fight ring interviews with Shavers and LeDoux as I recall among others like undefeated Leroy Jones who was stopped via detached retina.

Indeed, it was an elbow that sliced up Vander in that fight though.

[JAB5239]

Why - because HBO had a long term 100 million dollar deal with Jones.

All I can point to is an article by H. L. Mencken regarding the susposed Carpentier right hand that almost fell Dempsey.

It didn't - it didn't even phase Dempsey, but the newspapers the day after were filled with stories of an almost KO.

Why?

Enough to say that the title of the Mencken article is "How Legends get made," and it is a condemnation of the press. People (and the media is people) will bandwagon an opinion if a hierarchical authority gives them the lead.

Especially when it fits an agenda. In this case the refree and HBO commentators were that authority and the media, and thus the fans, followed.

Once the ref started counting everyone took their cue. It started with the refree.

It had been less than a year when Jones was DQed by Tony Perez, for fighting dirty against Griffin and no one needed that situation to occur again.

I'm sure everyone knew a second DQ of Jones would be a problem with HBO, including refree Fred Steinwinder III. (Ever hear if him? Me neither. Check out his resume; no big championship bouts under his belt. [I may have missed a lesser belt.])

It would have taken balls to DQ twice.

A DQed Jones was not on anyone's agenda so no one was going to question the call.

Unquestioned, the press took the decision (attitude) and wrote and talked about yet another great Jones' victory.

There is an appropriate paradox: "a conspiracy of silence."

I can't say what Hill said, I never bother to look but the excerpt above which starts "No ribs were broken" is from Hill's manager.

I saw a shlt punch that doesn't belong as part of the game. You can praise him for it, others may follow that lead, but real men like Willard and Dempsey saw it as a foul punch. Time doesn't change the rules of character in men. On character, 1919 is as valid as 2022.

Unlike a punch to the chin where a fighter can show his toughness by taking it, or getting up from it, a punch like Jones', no one can train for, no one can show their character by taking it, no one can regain their feet.

No different than a punch to the back of the head. The punch fells everyone, no one can stand up to it with toughness, conditioning, or experience. Because of that we do not considered it as part of a fair fight. The kidney punch is in that category.

Also like the rabbit punch it can do serious damage to the vertebrae, as it did Hill.

It doesn't belong in the game.

So there was a conspiracy to not disqualify Jones, and you think a punch that was clearly aimed to the side but for Hill turning into making it hit ever so slightly to the back ribs should be illegal because of what Dempsey and Wills said? With all due respect, that is ridiculous. What's next, no left hooks to the body because 1, it could hit the back, and 2, it could cause irreparable liver damage? Should punching to the head be illegal? It's caused my fighters a lifetime of damage than ANY body punch legal or illegal. This is a very provable fact.

Do you think Jones meant to throw what in your opinion was an illegal punch?

[Flickergrab98]

not bashing any of these guys, since boxing was rough back in the day, but lets make a case to point them out, ill start with a few:

1) Foreman pushing Frazier constantly not allowing him to fight inside, and throwing kidney shots his entire career

My understanding was that Foreman was employing an extended guard, a very old tactic from the earliest years of gloved boxing. I know that tactic was no longer being utilized by other fighters at that time but had it actually become illegal?

[IronDanHamza]

Page 3 and no mention of Sandy Saddler? I am genuinely shocked.

He’d be my #1

Every fighter who holds or clinches their opponent commits fouls every fight anyway, so 99% of them.

[Willie Pep 229]

Page 3 and no mention of Sandy Saddler? I am genuinely shocked.

He’d be my #1

Every fighter who holds or clinches their opponent commits fouls every fight anyway, so 99% of them.

Today it is inevitable - I wonder if there was a time when it wasn't as common.

I think because the MQB rules grew out of the LPR rules and bare knuckles (hands), there was probably too much grabbing right from the get go.

But it is very true a single clinch is technically a foul.