Fighters who fouled and got away with it

[Ivich]

Exactly.

In fact, the thread title reads "Fighters who fouled and got away with it"

Which is why I posted !

[Tatabanya]

Which is why I posted !

Nice! For some reason, I had caught a somewhat polemic tone. My bad!

[Ivich]

Years later? From what I remember it was something like less than a year later that he said that.

And I thought also his wraps were being questioned early on. They must have been if De Forests' statement wasn't longer than 2 years later.

Kearns never said anything about plaster of paris until after he had fallen out with Dempsey.Sports Illustrated proved the plaster of paris theory didnt work Willard said Dempsey had a railway spike in his hands,total BS.

[The Old LefHook]

We can solve old murder cases but not who cheated on their wraps.

[travestyny]

- - What was the standard tape presumably found in most pharmacies and/or General Merchandise stores found in every town in America back then?

Modern fighters of my generation were using bog standard medical cloth tape used to make casts for broken limbs, hence the nickname for boxing wraps as "casts."

I know of recently they have moved to a higher quality, presumably plastic tape around the lacing that prevents ye aulde loose flapping tape time out for repairs stoppages.

Bicycle tape used for the dropdown handlebars of racing style bikes of my day was just a colored version of medical cloth cast tape. Plastic tapes would make the handgrips dangerously slippery.

I'm not sure what the usual tape found back then was. But I do know there seems to be a history of bicycle tape being used in boxing matches.

[travestyny]

Kearns never said anything about plaster of paris until after he had fallen out with Dempsey.Sports Illustrated proved the plaster of paris theory didnt work Willard said Dempsey had a railway spike in his hands,total BS.

Yea, it wasn't about the plaster story. I think everyone knew that was BS. It was Jimmy Deforest's statement in 1920.

The date here seems to be incorrect. The article was actually dated June 30th, 1920.

But Jimmy Deforest explained how Dempsey had achieved such carnage in so short a time. In 1930 he told Joe Villa of the New York Evening Sun exactly how it happened. “When I handled Kid McCoy, I used to bandage his hands with a certain type of adhesive tape,” DeForest told Vila. “As soon as McCoy drew on the gloves, the tape hardened and, as a result, he was able to inflict unusual punishment. I wound Dempsey’s hands, which Willard inspected. The story that Dempsey wore aluminum pads over his knuckles is a lie. His bandages became hardened, no doubt, and that was why he cut Willard’s face to ribbons.” Is it possible that Willard actually inspected Dempsey’s hands before the tape hardened?

https://thisbrutalglory.com/2018/07/...willard-fight/

There's also a NY Times article written about it. I think you can read it here without a subscription.

The clipping, exhumed by S.J. Riccardi, contains a column that Joe Vila, one of the ” more noted boxing authorities of his day, wrote for The New York Evening Sun June 30, 1920. What gives It extra credence is that it appeared slightly less than a year after Dempsey had massacred the Pottawatomie Giant.

“When I handled Kid McCoy I used to bandage his hands with a certain kind of adhesive tape. As soon as McCoy drew on the gloves, the tape hardened and, as a result, he was able to inflict unusual punishment. I wound Dempsey's hands with the same kind of bandages, which Willard inspected. The story that Dempsey wore aluminum pads over his knuckles is a lie. His bandages became hardened, no doubt, and that was why he cut Willard's face to ribbons.”
https://www.nytimes.com/1964/02/09/a...the-times.html

He was defending Dempsey because already to that point people were su****ious of Dempsey's wraps.

It's also mentioned in Nat Fliescher's book, "50 Years at Ringside." Here it is from that book.

"I regard the stories that I put plaster of Paris on Jack's
bandages as plain libel. I'm tired of hearing people talk about such
nonsense. It's pure trash. These rumors affect my reputation for
honesty and fair dealing. I did apply some water over the bandages
when Jack complained about the extreme heat, and that was all. I
did not apply any foreign substance to them. I used a hard adhesive
tape. This certainly was not irregular. It was not against the rules.
It was the same kind of tape I always used when I bandaged Kid
McCoy's hands."

[Willie Pep 229]

So how close were Dempsey and DeForest in 1920?

Did DeForest train Dempsey for the Carpentier fight?

In 1925 Jimmy DeForest writes a letter to Dempsey seeking an opportunity to train Dempsey for the first Tunney fight. Dempsey replies politely but doesn't take up the offer.

Earlier DeForest appears as Firpo's trainer in spring 1923 while Dempsey is preparing to fight Tommy Gibbons.

So . . .

1. Are we certain DeForest is on good terms with Dempsey at the time of the 1920 interview with Villa?

2. Was Dempsey concerned with Firpo's gloves on September 1923; was Firpo (DeForest) concerned about the tape on Dempsey's hands for the Firpo fight?

According to Jimmy DeForest's statements both fighers should have been concerned, no?

I know of no glove concerns surrounding the Firpo fight, but considering DeForest story and his appearance in Firpo's corner should have raised concern.

[QueensburyRules]

- - Most recently, Blubber Fury "fowled" and got away with it when he "ducked" $75M to fight AJ in Saudi Arabia for $30M to fight Deyonce in the US.

Now our modern crybabies always squallin' in NS are claiming him as one of their greats, which in ducking terms may well be the case not that they care to know the details. He fulfills their emotional needs for greatness, that specifically blubberwise, could be the case.

[travestyny]

So how close were Dempsey and DeForest in 1920?

Did DeForest train Dempsey for the Carpentier fight?

In 1925 Jimmy DeForest writes a letter to Dempsey seeking an opportunity to train Dempsey for the first Tunney fight. Dempsey replies politely but doesn't take up the offer.

Earlier DeForest appears as Firpo's trainer in spring 1923 while Dempsey is preparing to fight Tommy Gibbons.

So . . .

1. Are we certain DeForest is on good terms with Dempsey at the time of the 1920 interview with Villa?

2. Was Dempsey concerned with Firpo's gloves on September 1923; was Firpo (DeForest) concerned about the tape on Dempsey's hands for the Firpo fight?

According to Jimmy DeForest's statements both fighers should have been concerned, no?

I know of no glove concerns surrounding the Firpo fight, but considering DeForest story and his appearance in Firpo's corner should have raised concern.

Could be that things were made more stern by the commissions. If I remember correctly, there was concern during the Carpentier fight. I think they wanted Dempsey to remove some tape...? And in the Tunney fight, bicycle tape was barred. In Arne K. Lang's book "Prizefighting: An American History", he quotes Grantland Rice as saying since bicycle tape was barred, Dempsey would be fighting with much less bandaging than usual. Seems it either was or became a known tactic.

[markusmod]

Bernard Hopkins was a king at fouls. I remember Winky said Bernard head-butted him and cut his eye - and then laughed about it during a clinch.