Who Were the Black Heavyweight Standouts Who Were Denied Title Shots Between Tunney and Louis' Reign

[travestyny]

He was given his shot in ‘22 and ‘25, it wasn’t Dempsey’s fault the players involved failed to keep their end of the contract. The public overwhelmingly wanted Floyd to fight Manny back in 2010 and every year until 2015. He was his own boss and had no real excuse, but that didn’t stop him from offering about ten different excuses not to fight Manny sooner.

Does the public dictate fights? The public also wanted Floyd to rematch with Oscar, fights with Mosley at 135, Freitas, Casamayor, Williams, Cotto at 140, Margarito, Tszyu, Khan, and others. The public demanded Johnson vs Langford, Jeannette and McVey for the title too.

They also demanded Duran vs Arguello, Jones vs Benn and Michalchewski, Leonard vs Pryor, Morales vs Marquez…none of those fights ever happened and no one outside of a few casuals accused any of them of ducking the other.

I suppose Dempsey could have fought Wills by 1926, but Wills was done and ducked had ducked Tunney and got worked over by Sharkey. Tunney was a far more dangerous fight.

Dude, you have to look more closely at what was going on.


Mayweather/Pacquiao has been done to death. We know from Freddie Roach that it was Pacquiao's side that botched the initial fight. They finally got it done, but it took too long.


As for all of the others, any of them sign a contract and then step out after getting an offer that would have been the richest in their career?



If the money was there and the public wanted it, I don't see the issue.

[Marchegiano]

All of those examples do get **** for ducking. So, it's a good job us'es are here to call Dempsey a duck.

Floyd....who gets **** for that all the time....did fight Pac eventually though and Jack did not fight Harry. So I am a bit confused.

[Willie Pep 229]

Admit doesn't mean adversarial. What I'm simply pointing out is that Dempsey was not a slave. When he didn't want to work with Kearns, he didn't. When he didn't want to work with Rickard, he didn't. That means he did have some control over his career.

He even admit that if the fight wasn't made, he would insist on knowing why and demand it. He said that in '26. Could he have done it earlier? Absolutely. That says really all you need to know. Again, direct from his mouth. Now you tell me if I'm taking that out of context. Also tell me if I'm taking it out of context when he said that whichever promoter gets all the signatures will get the fight, and that if a promoter comes along with the proper deal, he will be found with pen waiting to sign. And as we see, he did sign.


If I took that out of context, let me know. If not, that seems pretty damning to me.


So again, let me know what part of that I misunderstood. Let's see you change the words out of his mouth to fit your agenda.


We both know which members here have ridiculous arguments when it comes to Dempsey. That's the ones who have to ignore his quotations and completely make up things out of the blue to justify what is obvious. That he was happy to sidestep Harry Wills. Period.

Yes you are out of context.

The context you are missing isn't that Dempsey moved from Kearns to making his own decisions; he moved from Kearns right into Rickard's hands (guidence).

And in '26 when hefound himself alone he ran straight to Fitz his old friend who first took him to Chicago and then back to Rickard.

Dempsey changing managers doesn't mean he suddenly wanted to, or was even capable of making these important decision himself.

Dempsey comes across to me as bright enough but very ignorant.

Switching managers or promoters is not the same as going it on your own, that's the context you missed.

[Willie Pep 229]

Here. This should help prove my point.

You are going to have to contradict Dempsey in order to be correct, and that's a very strange argument to make.


"Anytime you have anything to say about Dempsey fighting somebody, you just come around and do your talking with Jack Dempsey."

Yes I contradict Dempsey's words.

First let's start with the date, one month before the Tunney fight and two months after he pulled out of the Chiacgo deal.

1. You believe Dempsey made those two decisions on his own?

2. All men want to believe they are their own man. .
3. The news article's underlying theme was 'why no Wills fight?' - did you expect Dempsey to meekly say "Tex told me no."

4. If I show you a Tyson quote would you insist he is actually a cannibal?

5. Imagine a history written solely on Donald Trump quotes.

You over emphasis quotes without looking at the big picture.

[Ivich]

Yes I contradict Dempsey's words.

First let's start with the date, one month before the Tunney fight and two months after he pulled out of the Chiacgo deal.

1. You believe Dempsey made those two decisions on his own?

2. All men want to believe they are their own man. .
3. The news article's underlying theme was 'why no Wills fight?' - did you expect Dempsey to meekly say "Tex told me no."

4. If I show you a Tyson quote would you insist he is actually a cannibal?

5. Imagine a history written solely on Donald Trump quotes.

You over emphasis quotes without looking at the big picture.

God Help Wills if he fought Dempsey in1926.

[Willie Pep 229]

God Help Wills if he fought Dempsey in1926.

Yea I agree - but that fight would have been one of the all time great fights if it took place in 1922.

Kind of ironic that Dempsry walked away from a finished Wills in '26 right into the hands of a peaking Tunney.

Maybe the gods of boxing were angry at Dempsey for drawing the color line.

[Ivich]

Yea I agree - but that fight would have been one of the all time great fights if it took place in 1922.

Kind of ironic that Dempsry walked away from a finished Wills in '26 right into the hands of a peaking Tunney.

Maybe the gods of boxing were angry at Dempsey for drawing the color line.

Maybe,I think its pretty well established that Wills was the only realistic challenger for Dempsey who wasn't white during that time scale though.

[GhostofDempsey]

Dude, you have to look more closely at what was going on.


Mayweather/Pacquiao has been done to death. We know from Freddie Roach that it was Pacquiao's side that botched the initial fight. They finally got it done, but it took too long.


As for all of the others, any of them sign a contract and then step out after getting an offer that would have been the richest in their career?



If the money was there and the public wanted it, I don't see the issue.

Freddie Roach was not the end all be all to that discussion, he wasn't even part of the negotiations. I can post at least ten excuses Floyd used to avoid Manny at his best. Floyd himself said he deserves credit for being smart by making the fight 5 years later, if that isn't an admission of ducking and what he called "marinating", I don't what else is.

Dempsey was also sticking it to Wills after wills tried to sue him. I'm guessing that may have played a part in the '26 contract. He was fed up with Wills by that point. Yet he still made two legitimate attempts at giving him that fight. You let Johnson off the hook claiming he signed contracts which proves his willingness to fight Langford, Jeannette and McVey, yet you hold Dempsey to a different standard. This has been your double standard and agenda from day one.

[Willow The Wisp]

Every time I tune in to this thread a breand new, completely unrelated topic has busted out. The discussion is pretty good, but ...it's one of those.

[QueensburyRules]

Every time I tune in to this thread a breand new, completely unrelated topic has busted out. The discussion is pretty good, but ...it's one of those.

- - I remember when Weensy still in the middle of puberty would put some of us on ignore in between prototypical 8th grade Beeatch pawnning banter and then ask why we weren't responding to his latest discovery.