Who Were the Black Heavyweight Standouts Who Were Denied Title Shots Between Tunney and Louis' Reign

[Ivich]

That fight with Battling Jim is the smoking gun and you and Travesty placed it at my feet. Damn right I'm going to play that card, it proves that Johnson was full of shyt when he set such high demands for Langford, Jeannette and McVey but made a huge exception for Battling Jim. Johnson wasn't taking a chance on anything, and if he did, it makes him look like more of a fraud. Jeannette offered him $20K the year prior and Johnson balked at it. Johnson has a history of reneging on contracts as he did with the first contract for Langford promised a title fight. From then on he founds ways to avoid him.

He didn't make any exceptions for Flynn, Ferguson ,Ross or Ketchel did he? Were any of them harder propositions than Battling Jim? Yes Johnson said I want $30,000 to promoters, meet my price and I'll fight you. Jeannette offered him nothing he was a fighter not a promoter.
There is a verified statement made by Jeannette absolving Johnson of any blame for the NY title fight twice aborted by the NYAC.I believe it has been posted here?Anyway I have seen it.

[travestyny]

See, I answered the question several times and you disagree. That's all you had to do the first 9 times I answered it, instead of insisting I didn't answer. I think Dempsey's was better, you can cry about that all you want, doesn't change my opinion.

Dude, I never even saw you answer Dempsey, but either way you know that wasn't what we were talking about. You said Wills wasn't worthy of a title shot. So we clearly asked which heavy was more deserving. No one is trying to change your opinion on who was better.

McKetrick also states Jeannette was 165 when he last fought Johnson, is that true? Because your boy Ivach certainly doesn't agree. Is McKetrick lying here? He is lying in the article, he is saying that Johnson agreed to the fight because the public has accepted Jeannette as the true HW champion. Right there he is full of shyt, there was no public consensus acknowledging or claiming Jeannette as the true HW champion. The article is all grandiose self-promotion trying to sell a fight that isn't happening, especially on his terms. He even states he's been chasing Johnson for two years and to no avail. It's obvious Johnson never wanted those fights and found ways to avoid them.

That's all fine and dandy. But I don't see anywhere there you trying to make sense of what he gets out of the signed fight against Johnson being NOT for the championship. Can you explain that? Keeping in mind the various other sources that say it was for the championship. You are completely dodging the issue now just like you did above with refusing to answer who was more worthy of the title shot than Wills.



Your own argument seems to be that some of the things he is saying are true, and some are not. Right? I think it would be pretty easy to back up what he's saying about it being for the championship. Being that Johnson, the Promoters, and various other sources mentioned that it was. Right?

[travestyny]

Is McKetrick lying here? He is lying in the article, he is saying that Johnson agreed to the fight because the public has accepted Jeannette as the true HW champion. Right there he is full of shyt,

Let me make this McKetrick stuff as clear as I can.


The point of the matter is that ALL SIDES INVOLVED said that the signed fight between Johnson and Jeannette was for the championship. Johnson is quoted as mentioning it. Jeannette through his manager mentioned it. The promoters mentioned it. Various newspaper articles mentioned it.


But you first claimed that it was impossible simply because it was in New York. When I proved that was false, now you just say McKetric is a liar and that means it wasn't for the title. I'm still trying to make sense of this argument.

[GhostofDempsey]

Let me make this McKetrick stuff as clear as I can.


The point of the matter is that ALL SIDES INVOLVED said that the signed fight between Johnson and Jeannette was for the championship. Johnson is quoted as mentioning it. Jeannette through his manager mentioned it. The promoters mentioned it. Various newspaper articles mentioned it.


But you first claimed that it was impossible simply because it was in New York. When I proved that was false, now you just say McKetric is a liar and that means it wasn't for the title. I'm still trying to make sense of this argument.

You didn't prove it was false because NY wouldn't allow the fight. McKetrick is doing his usual carnival barker routine here, and he had access to the press to print whatever version of his truth that he wanted. In fact, that's how the business was back then, whoever got their story into the press first got it printed, there was no fact checking. You could actually say that "so and so said A, B, and C) when in fact you never heard them say it at all. Johnson always found a way out, and he never intended to give any of them an honest title shot. All of the times I posted articles and sources of his backing out, or McKetrick himself claiming he had to chase him for two years....so who was more deserving of title shots back then? Who was more deserving than Langford, Jeannette and McVey? Are you going to use the same "deserving" double standard that you do with Dempsey and Wills?

[travestyny]

You didn't prove it was false because NY wouldn't allow the fight. McKetrick is doing his usual carnival barker routine here, and he had access to the press to print whatever version of his truth that he wanted. In fact, that's how the business was back then, whoever got their story into the press first got it printed, there was no fact checking. You could actually say that "so and so said A, B, and C) when in fact you never heard them say it at all. Johnson always found a way out, and he never intended to give any of them an honest title shot. All of the times I posted articles and sources of his backing out, or McKetrick himself claiming he had to chase him for two years....so who was more deserving of title shots back then? Who was more deserving than Langford, Jeannette and McVey? Are you going to use the same "deserving" double standard that you do with Dempsey and Wills?

OMG man. Why are you being so shiesty.

It was your contention that NY wouldn't allow ANY title fights. You said that's why it wasn't to be for the title. That was proven false. Was it not?



Can you answer a simple question. Did Johnson's side, The promoters, and Jeannette's side all claim to have reached a deal for Johnson to fight Jeannette for the title?

[travestyny]

...so who was more deserving of title shots back then? Who was more deserving than Langford, Jeannette and McVey? Are you going to use the same "deserving" double standard that you do with Dempsey and Wills?

Sure. I believe Langford was most deserving if we take finance out of it.


I believe Wills was most deserving vs Dempsey whether finance is a part of it or not.

I can't answer any more honestly than that. What about you?


And this had nothing to do with any standard from me. This was based on YOU saying Wills was not deserving of a title shot.

[GhostofDempsey]

Sure. I believe Langford was most deserving if we take finance out of it.


I believe Wills was most deserving vs Dempsey whether finance is a part of it or not.

I can't answer any more honestly than that. What about you?


And this had nothing to do with any standard from me. This was based on YOU saying Wills was not deserving of a title shot.

I said Wills was not deserving of that shot from '22 and on, and his record was proof of that. Even if you go back to '20 and '21 there isn't anything great going on there...Gunbaot Smith fought his last fight against Wills, he was done. The Langford fights Sam was past it and half blind. McVey was washed up in '20. Who else was he beating from '20 - '26? Dempsey was inactive in '24 and '25, much the same way Johnson was an inactive champion. He took on tough opponents in the years he was active.

[travestyny]

I said Wills was not deserving of that shot from '22 and on, and his record was proof of that. Even if you go back to '20 and '21 there isn't anything great going on there...Gunbaot Smith fought his last fight against Wills, he was done. The Langford fights Sam was past it and half blind. McVey was washed up in '20. Who else was he beating from '20 - '26? Dempsey was inactive in '24 and '25, much the same way Johnson was an inactive champion. He took on tough opponents in the years he was active.

So again, which heavyweight was more deserving than Wills based on resume?

[GhostofDempsey]

So again, which heavyweight was more deserving than Wills based on resume?

It's not only about who was more deserving. It was about who his manager contracted him to fight, and the problems that still existed in many states with color lines and HW champs. You want to hold Dempsey to the standards and ethics of 21st century America. There was a whole other dynamic taking place back then and Dempsey wasn't in control of his career any more than one of Arum or PBC's fighters.

[The Old LefHook]

In circa 1931 there was no future in boxing for black heavyweights, as far as anyone could see. Therefore, why would loads of talent good enough to be denied title shots still be hanging around, with the bad memory of Johnson yet fresh in ye nostrils?