Irish Heavyweight Champions (WIP)

[The Old LefHook]

Carlisle Patriot - Saturday 31 July 1819



BOXING. Two great meetings took place day, which attracted all the refuse of the great metro- namely, the mob Smithfitld, and the miscellaneous groupe Crawley Common, where Donnelly, the Irish Champion, exhibited fight with Oliver, for two hundred guineas. The light was originally fixed to take place two miles from Imt'thc j/iajiirts belonging to the army occupation found some enemies who that quarter, and make safe, the spot where the battle was fought, eight, miles farther out, was fixed upon—(-rib)) was engaged Noble Lord to second and was the bottle holder. Belcher and seconded whose chief backer was the Sporting Colonel, and the great patron of and the millers, netting to Jonnelly. I _ Ist. Donnelly put himself into good attitude for hitting, with the right shoulder level with the fist, in parallel with the chin. let fly with the left hand away from distance, which brought the men close, and Oliver received some hits, but Donnelly disengaged himself giving his adversary a heavy fall. is superior strength was apparent, and was backed at 7 to 1. 2. Oliver hit the body with the left hand ala but without the force, and Donnelly rushed with much determination here he showed want of science. There was some hugging hitting in the close, and Donnelly threw again. 3. Donnelly missed his hit, and another dose followed; Oliver had the best of the weaving system, and lie threw his adversary upon a balance the lower ropes of the ring Donnelly was undermost upon the giour.d. 4. Oliver retreated the ropes, where Donnelly showed fight, knocked his head against the stake, and threw him heavily. Both were bheding. 5. Donnelly placed left handed blow upon the eye, and it was returned a sharp flush hit upor. the mouth,... which bled freely; by way compliment him a crushing fall and went down upon Idm. 6'. Oliver began show want of condition, and h'j hit short with the left hand upon the body : he received smart hit upon the head, with winch went down, but it was not considered by the umpires knock down blow. 7. Donnelly placed hit upon the head with the left hand, and again threw his man. Some difference occurred between the seconds the manner which the men were entangled the ground, and threatened to give a lick on the head with the ' water bottle. 8. Oliver had evidently ruflered heavily from the falls and he bled profusely. was thrown again. 7to 4> Donnelly. i). Donnelly placed a heavy right handed blow upon his adversary's side, the mark which was visible, and a close Oliver went down from weakness. and 11. Oliver was thrown both rounds after struggling closes without any hitting consequence. 12. (.'liver broke his ground from weakness, and they were alike distressed; both were down until the Ift til round, in each which, Donnelly's strength served him the throws. Oliver fought worst until the IBth round, when got what is technically termed second wind; led again and became the favourite at odds. 19. < placed two hits, meeting his adversary t'pch the and Donnelly appeared much distressed and was thrown. Until the round there was but little fighting ; Oliver's head was much swollen, and was aiming evtry mancuvre to get best. this rowed showed his nature to the admiration of the ring, fixing himself defensive attitudes in the corner of the ring, where he gallantly fought himself out in bull-dog style and threw his adversary. 23. fine specimen of science was here displayed. Both let fly the same moment, the counter hits told upon the mouth of each both went down at several feet distance from each other with the Sects the blows, which operated strongly upon the teeth, and both had enough to for several rounds to disgorge the claret. 21. Oliver received left handed hit the throat, and was thrown in the close. Oliver showed some extraordinary manhood; went to work the muzzling system, and although much reduced in strength owipowering weight, placed two flush hits upon ins adversary s head, and threw him. Bcttir upon <sliver, from his known ganie, and the distress his adversary laboured under. 20. Donnelly continued a weak state, and although Oliver was the worst beaten led in tins round, at the close which both went down, Donnelly under. and were hinging rounds in favour of 01iv<y. but the men were that weak state that it was any one'sbattle; good judges took the odds about Donnelly's winning, conceiving strength with any thing like equal game must bear him through the contest. Donnelly had shown game some points, and lie justified the approbation his Hibernian friends entertained of him. VY'e shall not pursue the rounds which followed until that which finished the mill. There was no Lombardstreet to the Orange boys about it A telling hit would have settled it; and we shall therefore leave the distressed situation of the men in hugging any thing rope stake, until the few ideas they hod were put one side by a hit. Donnelly was favoured by nature in the thirty-sixth round, and" proved himself a guid man by the efforts he made—-After staggering against each, other, Donnelly, fresher than his antagonist, hit him the throat and threw him heavy fall; when hie second's knee Oliver's head fell upon his shoulder most pitiful state, and being unable come to time, the Irish Champion was declared the victor, after 9 struggle of one hour and nine minutes.

Going to guess Tom Oliver and Dan Donnelly?

Plenty vicious.

[Willie Pep 229]

Carlisle Patriot - Saturday 31 July 1819


BOXING. Two great meetings took place day, which attracted all the refuse of the great metro- namely, the mob Smithfitld, and the miscellaneous groupe Crawley Common, where Donnelly, the Irish Champion, exhibited fight with Oliver, for two hundred guineas. The light was originally fixed to take place two miles from Imt'thc j/iajiirts belonging to the army occupation found some enemies who that quarter, and make safe, the spot where the battle was fought, eight, miles farther out, was fixed upon—(-rib)) was engaged Noble Lord to second and was the bottle holder. Belcher and seconded whose chief backer was the Sporting Colonel, and the great patron of and the millers, netting to Jonnelly. I _ Ist. Donnelly put himself into good attitude for hitting, with the right shoulder level with the fist, in parallel with the chin. let fly with the left hand away from distance, which brought the men close, and Oliver received some hits, but Donnelly disengaged himself giving his adversary a heavy fall. is superior strength was apparent, and was backed at 7 to 1. 2. Oliver hit the body with the left hand ala but without the force, and Donnelly rushed with much determination here he showed want of science. There was some hugging hitting in the close, and Donnelly threw again. 3. Donnelly missed his hit, and another dose followed; Oliver had the best of the weaving system, and lie threw his adversary upon a balance the lower ropes of the ring Donnelly was undermost upon the giour.d. 4. Oliver retreated the ropes, where Donnelly showed fight, knocked his head against the stake, and threw him heavily. Both were bheding. 5. Donnelly placed left handed blow upon the eye, and it was returned a sharp flush hit upor. the mouth,... which bled freely; by way compliment him a crushing fall and went down upon Idm. 6'. Oliver began show want of condition, and h'j hit short with the left hand upon the body : he received smart hit upon the head, with winch went down, but it was not considered by the umpires knock down blow. 7. Donnelly placed hit upon the head with the left hand, and again threw his man. Some difference occurred between the seconds the manner which the men were entangled the ground, and threatened to give a lick on the head with the ' water bottle. 8. Oliver had evidently ruflered heavily from the falls and he bled profusely. was thrown again. 7to 4> Donnelly. i). Donnelly placed a heavy right handed blow upon his adversary's side, the mark which was visible, and a close Oliver went down from weakness. and 11. Oliver was thrown both rounds after struggling closes without any hitting consequence. 12. (.'liver broke his ground from weakness, and they were alike distressed; both were down until the Ift til round, in each which, Donnelly's strength served him the throws. Oliver fought worst until the IBth round, when got what is technically termed second wind; led again and became the favourite at odds. 19. < placed two hits, meeting his adversary t'pch the and Donnelly appeared much distressed and was thrown. Until the round there was but little fighting ; Oliver's head was much swollen, and was aiming evtry mancuvre to get best. this rowed showed his nature to the admiration of the ring, fixing himself defensive attitudes in the corner of the ring, where he gallantly fought himself out in bull-dog style and threw his adversary. 23. fine specimen of science was here displayed. Both let fly the same moment, the counter hits told upon the mouth of each both went down at several feet distance from each other with the Sects the blows, which operated strongly upon the teeth, and both had enough to for several rounds to disgorge the claret. 21. Oliver received left handed hit the throat, and was thrown in the close. Oliver showed some extraordinary manhood; went to work the muzzling system, and although much reduced in strength owipowering weight, placed two flush hits upon ins adversary s head, and threw him. Bcttir upon <sliver, from his known ganie, and the distress his adversary laboured under. 20. Donnelly continued a weak state, and although Oliver was the worst beaten led in tins round, at the close which both went down, Donnelly under. and were hinging rounds in favour of 01iv<y. but the men were that weak state that it was any one'sbattle; good judges took the odds about Donnelly's winning, conceiving strength with any thing like equal game must bear him through the contest. Donnelly had shown game some points, and lie justified the approbation his Hibernian friends entertained of him. VY'e shall not pursue the rounds which followed until that which finished the mill. There was no Lombardstreet to the Orange boys about it A telling hit would have settled it; and we shall therefore leave the distressed situation of the men in hugging any thing rope stake, until the few ideas they hod were put one side by a hit. Donnelly was favoured by nature in the thirty-sixth round, and" proved himself a guid man by the efforts he made—-After staggering against each, other, Donnelly, fresher than his antagonist, hit him the throat and threw him heavy fall; when hie second's knee Oliver's head fell upon his shoulder most pitiful state, and being unable come to time, the Irish Champion was declared the victor, after 9 struggle of one hour and nine minutes.

Going to guess Tom Oliver and Dan Donnelly?

Oliver fought worst until the IBth round, when got what is technically termed second wind;

Is it me or does that phrase not seem odd for 1819?

In a game of etymology I would have bet heavy that 'technically speaking' was a second half of the 20th century phrase.

I guess I shouldn't be too suprised he also uses the phrase "he showed want of science." So it looks like the fight game was seducing intellectuals and gentlemen throughout its history. I guess for his time he was called an enlightened philosopher.

[Anthony342]

No, as far as I know they don't much like me.

Why? Too factual? Go too far back? You do your research? What's their problem?

[Marchegiano]

Oliver fought worst until the IBth round, when got what is technically termed second wind;

Is it me or does that phrase not seem odd for 1819?

In a game of etymology I would have bet heavy that 'technically speaking' was a second half of the 20th century phrase.

I guess I shouldn't be too suprised he also uses the phrase "he showed want of science." So it looks like the fight game was seducing intellectuals and gentlemen throughout its history. I guess for his time he was called an enlightened philosopher.

I'll have to look at the real source picture. You know how they do the paper archives, it's just a bunch of pics of papers.

This paste is just an auto-transcription done by an OCR program on the fly. Give me a little time to pull up the picture of the paper and read directly. It might not even say that actually.

[Marchegiano]

Why? Too factual? Go too far back? You do your research? What's their problem?

It's a tricky thing to show respect while firmly announcing the men you are meant to hold in high regard are just flatly and plainly wrong.

I'm a bit of a ****.



I legitimately do not understand what flies as "verified" information and from where I sit, and they know this, what the IBRO really is, is a circlejerk of authors who use other people's research to pretend like they know something but stay hidden away from forums like this because the truth is they are absolutely terrified of being son'd by members like us who pull sources and ask questions.

Verified information sounds like corroboration on the surface, but no, you can not bring 10 levels of corroboration and they call it verified.

So I assumed "verified" meant from an accredited historian. Fair enough, not my job to know eras well enough to catch stuff like Willie just did and question small things like wordplay and historians are meant to actually have those abilities.

That's a big reason why I did the ancients. Because who does boxing history? Historical no bodies. Not one of our authors is a respected historian outside of boxing and since I felt like I was being credential walled I figured I'd submit primary sources along with reviews from historians who are profs in ivy league schools...or is it ivey?

When they started telling me my harvard profs. are unverified while printing my information in their spiffy new articles I got pretty pissed off and stopped dealing with them directly

about five years would pass and another boxing fans found some of my work. This dude was smart enough to realize I wrote the original source for things he was interested in. He started writing a book and doing his own research. The IBRO accepted my research through a proxy author, called it good, and even started to groom this author for membership.

What's different? I actually looked at the second player's drafts and stuff before he submitted. The only difference is now the research is coming from a guy who means to write a book, has a strong rough draft, and will likely get this published. You know, someone they can induct into their circklejerk where they only ever acknowledge information written by one another and consider everything lesser all while holding their bull behind the pay wall that is "buy my book" and discounting information that comes for free no matter the primary source, the credentials of the reviewer, or the validity of the case. Yeah, that guy got offers....for my research....same stuff I submitted.




It starts where all their books start. Egan. Egan is not a liar he just got some **** wrong. Folks treat Egan like he was there for the entire first 100 years of boxing. To Egan James Figg is a story. However, I think the Captain is named Godfrey, I could be off, lots of captains in early boxing, but I'm pretty sure Captain John Godfrey and from memory the name of the book is treaties for self defense or some such similar. That's your first-hand account of Figg AND the only reason why Egan got used so much as the main source for all things BK is because his was the book known to them when they wrote theirs. One will find Treaties is backed by primaries a bit better than Boxiana is. For the era pre-egan I mean.

Next comes Fleischer and Richard K Foxx. Both liars who new they were lying. Foxx ran a newspaper and often printed things that would sell. Fleischer owned a magazine and for some reason folks want to believe he was a serious historian. They both wrote lies they knew were lies and IBRO/CBZ loves those lies because admitting Nat got something wrong means admitting all they did themselves was read ****ing boxiana and ****ing black dynamite and called it ****ing research while they penned thier half assed books we now call history. It's really not hard to work out their bull given they made up characters from the real exploits of multiple men.

Now in the modern era the have established true circlejerking. No longer necessary to wank Egan and Fleischer since their books have been reprinted with new words under new names telling the same, wrong, stories. Now you just source another IBRO member. Essays of the first black pugilists = caramel colored kings in pamphlet form.



So, imo, if you're starting from IBRO research and sources you're starting from a bad place that just tries to muddy the water with their own "expertise" that just happens to follow right along with their money. I'm not anti- every author on there but I can say my respect for guys like Tracy is...well I'm glad they made their early, basic, and often wrong information easy to find....that's it. If that **** wants to be a real respected historian and not just play like one he should update his ****ing books because I know he knows the information he is selling is dated and wrong.

I have some IBRO member books and stuff, I still chat with them here and there, but by and large there's not much shared respect between me and the members.




At the end of the day I am a guy who spends money and time to find research then post it for free on a public site and the IBRO simply is not. Philosophically worlds apart. I promise this, it'll never ever be Marchegiano's information held exclusively behind the pay wall that is buy my book or any of the corruption that comes with monetizing my research.

[Marchegiano]

I guess I shouldn't be too suprised he also uses the phrase "he showed want of science." So it looks like the fight game was seducing intellectuals and gentlemen throughout its history. I guess for his time he was called an enlightened philosopher.

Yeah i is-uh doublin'

I didn't notice or it didn't sink in the ending bit so i didn't mention in my last post to you.


Boxing in Greece is very much spiritual thing and like all spiritual things it ran the full gambit from intellectual to barbaric and from sweet to evil.

In England, during the mid 1600s, I wanna say 1640s, Puritans were popular, protestant was rather new, and literacy was way, way, up compared to prior eras. A man named Richard Dover is who brought back boxing and he did it specifically to show the English their Pagan heritage, Rome, was nothing to be ashamed of and plenty of it carries good national value. He fought religion with secular nationalism is a sort of political/philosophical public opinion battle

Given no one is a Puritan anymore and Usyk is world champion...we know who won.

Dover's boxing was no simply boxing though. Dover sought to revive the Olympics and, funny history almost never told in Olympic history, he kinda succeeded. He didn't really know how these old games were played so the first London Olympics, yes, for real, in the 1600s was kind of just academics' best guesses. Also, if you date stuffs, yes he was early in the fad of western elites going to Greece and Italy to dig up stuff and one could credit Dover with things like, you know, archeology, and such.

Clearly it wasn't the idea of the Olympics that caught on though, it was just the games and none more popular than boxing.

English gave no ****s about waiting for some grand event, they wanted to watch fights all the time, year round, every year and would pay to do it.

That's kind of the world Figg rises in. He's a prizefighter and I don't think we should be so willy-nilly with that term. Calling boxers prizefighters because BK is different from QB is nonsense because what is way different is sticks, swords, and maces. Prizefighters, if we are to make catagories that did not exist in their time, ought to be considered those who fought for money before there was a sport to fight for money in. Figg's mostly a swordsman but he recognized the popularity of boxing and set to forming a sport around it.

Figg's boxing is kinda ass and whatever Figg made up at the time.

Figg being in complete control and self contradictory made for some hard research but the sum of it is Broughton wasn't as chosen or star pupil as sometimes portrayed. What he is, is a very serious boxer who took a very serious look at ancient boxing. His rules, his prep, even gloves, it all comes from Broughton taking a real study to it.

By the later half of the 1700s science is mega popular. The whole time Boxing is on the rise the other major on the rise thing in all western society was Science.....that Newton ****.

That's why you see Mendoza credit science for his boxing. It's really just fencing, but, since it is slick, science.


What I'm saying is, yes, boxing used to be quite a lot more intellectual than it is now. Early English boxing is as much an intellectual's field as it would be today if we decided to revive some ancient native american sport. We'd need intellectuals to guide the athletes and athletes to take some interest in intellectualism so they can in turn guide the intellectuals.


Very much a heady thing in the early days.

[Anthony342]

It's a tricky thing to show respect while firmly announcing the men you are meant to hold in high regard are just flatly and plainly wrong.

I'm a bit of a ****.



I legitimately do not understand what flies as "verified" information and from where I sit, and they know this, what the IBRO really is, is a circlejerk of authors who use other people's research to pretend like they know something but stay hidden away from forums like this because the truth is they are absolutely terrified of being son'd by members like us who pull sources and ask questions.

Verified information sounds like corroboration on the surface, but no, you can not bring 10 levels of corroboration and they call it verified.

So I assumed "verified" meant from an accredited historian. Fair enough, not my job to know eras well enough to catch stuff like Willie just did and question small things like wordplay and historians are meant to actually have those abilities.

That's a big reason why I did the ancients. Because who does boxing history? Historical no bodies. Not one of our authors is a respected historian outside of boxing and since I felt like I was being credential walled I figured I'd submit primary sources along with reviews from historians who are profs in ivy league schools...or is it ivey?

When they started telling me my harvard profs. are unverified while printing my information in their spiffy new articles I got pretty pissed off and stopped dealing with them directly

about five years would pass and another boxing fans found some of my work. This dude was smart enough to realize I wrote the original source for things he was interested in. He started writing a book and doing his own research. The IBRO accepted my research through a proxy author, called it good, and even started to groom this author for membership.

What's different? I actually looked at the second player's drafts and stuff before he submitted. The only difference is now the research is coming from a guy who means to write a book, has a strong rough draft, and will likely get this published. You know, someone they can induct into their circklejerk where they only ever acknowledge information written by one another and consider everything lesser all while holding their bull behind the pay wall that is "buy my book" and discounting information that comes for free no matter the primary source, the credentials of the reviewer, or the validity of the case. Yeah, that guy got offers....for my research....same stuff I submitted.




It starts where all their books start. Egan. Egan is not a liar he just got some **** wrong. Folks treat Egan like he was there for the entire first 100 years of boxing. To Egan James Figg is a story. However, I think the Captain is named Godfrey, I could be off, lots of captains in early boxing, but I'm pretty sure Captain John Godfrey and from memory the name of the book is treaties for self defense or some such similar. That's your first-hand account of Figg AND the only reason why Egan got used so much as the main source for all things BK is because his was the book known to them when they wrote theirs. One will find Treaties is backed by primaries a bit better than Boxiana is. For the era pre-egan I mean.

Next comes Fleischer and Richard K Foxx. Both liars who new they were lying. Foxx ran a newspaper and often printed things that would sell. Fleischer owned a magazine and for some reason folks want to believe he was a serious historian. They both wrote lies they knew were lies and IBRO/CBZ loves those lies because admitting Nat got something wrong means admitting all they did themselves was read ****ing boxiana and ****ing black dynamite and called it ****ing research while they penned thier half assed books we now call history. It's really not hard to work out their bull given they made up characters from the real exploits of multiple men.

Now in the modern era the have established true circlejerking. No longer necessary to wank Egan and Fleischer since their books have been reprinted with new words under new names telling the same, wrong, stories. Now you just source another IBRO member. Essays of the first black pugilists = caramel colored kings in pamphlet form.



So, imo, if you're starting from IBRO research and sources you're starting from a bad place that just tries to muddy the water with their own "expertise" that just happens to follow right along with their money. I'm not anti- every author on there but I can say my respect for guys like Tracy is...well I'm glad they made their early, basic, and often wrong information easy to find....that's it. If that **** wants to be a real respected historian and not just play like one he should update his ****ing books because I know he knows the information he is selling is dated and wrong.

I have some IBRO member books and stuff, I still chat with them here and there, but by and large there's not much shared respect between me and the members.




At the end of the day I am a guy who spends money and time to find research then post it for free on a public site and the IBRO simply is not. Philosophically worlds apart. I promise this, it'll never ever be Marchegiano's information held exclusively behind the pay wall that is buy my book or any of the corruption that comes with monetizing my research.

Sounds like you're only a **** to other people that are ****s, especially to you. So the TLDR version is their sources are unverified while yours are more thoroughly researched. You proved them wrong, they can't handle it, so like the whiny little bitches they are, try to keep you off their site to keep themselves from looking bad, when in reality them being corrected and acknowledging their mistakes then posting the correct information would actually make them look even better.

[Marchegiano]

Sounds like you're only a **** to other people that are ****s, especially to you. So the TLDR version is their sources are unverified while yours are more thoroughly researched. You proved them wrong, they can't handle it, so like the whiny little bitches they are, try to keep you off their site to keep themselves from looking bad, when in reality them being corrected and acknowledging their mistakes then posting the correct information would actually make them look even better.

Something like that, I actually had a couple of chances to join through a proxy and if I used a penname, or just hoped they didn't tie my real name to Marchegiano. Other people get close to them and share the fact that I helped them then they want to get to know me because they don't know that they already do. So I could trick my way in. I never pursued it because I don't want the credential anymore. If I don't actually respect the IBRO very much then having that honor isn't really that big a deal to me. It's not worth the member dues, imo.

I mean, there's always going to be some level of respect. I reference CBZ and IBRO because they have some easy to reference resources and to this day most peoples' understanding of the full scope of boxing history is so small their websites alone are very useful, but that's about it.

I don't actually respect Ring or TBRB for that matter. I think anyone can join the WBC if they pay but I did get an official email from them too.

I think I want to make my own website, community, etc. Kinda like CBZ with more information than the IBRO but still a research circle where members share research like IBRO.

I say make a website because the entire time I've been here I've asked battling and poppa to sticky my ****. Hell, Battling is a good analog for IBRO going on right here.

If you ever wondered, why, if this forum houses the most comprehensive list of HW champions ever period, ditto for female boxing, just did it again for Irish HWs, same is true for colored champions, the bodies, the rules, the laws, the myths, the religious aspects, the link from Greece to England, pre-13 colony American boxing, ancient Russian boxing, medieval european boxing, so on, why are none of these are stickied and why are things like what fight you watched last are. Ask Battling. He's super interested in the present Ukrainian situation so of course that gets a sticky in a boxing history section

Ukraine, Klitschko’s, appreciation

What fight did you watch recently/last night

Pugilistic Linguistic Library (PDF)

Classic Boxing Pictures

The Top 20 All-Time Greatest P4P List

Top 10 Heavies from best to worst

Welcome to Boxingscene History section. Please read.

I think I've made at least ten threads that are far, far, more historically important than any one of above currently stickied threads. Best thing up there is books and I just ripped them in my last post. You'll learn more about boxing history from my champions and authorities threads alone than that entire list of free books can provide.

So, IBRO, bit like Battling, I don't hate the dude or even usually give him **** for this, but do I respect him as a history fan? No. Mod? No. He's a nice levelheaded fella and that's the extent of my respect for him. If he had a badge he could hand out that said this guy knows history I'd give little ****s about that badge or earning it. At this point it's a mutual disinterest in even dealing with one another on the subject. Battling has never once ever given me any reason why my **** never gets stickied. So now I have very little interest in a staying presence here and have every intention of making my own space to avoid ****s like Battling or Adam Pollock.

Klitschko ****ing appreciation thread what a ****

[Anthony342]

Something like that, I actually had a couple of chances to join through a proxy and if I used a penname, or just hoped they didn't tie my real name to Marchegiano. Other people get close to them and share the fact that I helped them then they want to get to know me because they don't know that they already do. So I could trick my way in. I never pursued it because I don't want the credential anymore. If I don't actually respect the IBRO very much then having that honor isn't really that big a deal to me. It's not worth the member dues, imo.

I mean, there's always going to be some level of respect. I reference CBZ and IBRO because they have some easy to reference resources and to this day most peoples' understanding of the full scope of boxing history is so small their websites alone are very useful, but that's about it.

I don't actually respect Ring or TBRB for that matter. I think anyone can join the WBC if they pay but I did get an official email from them too.

I think I want to make my own website, community, etc. Kinda like CBZ with more information than the IBRO but still a research circle where members share research like IBRO.

I say make a website because the entire time I've been here I've asked battling and poppa to sticky my ****. Hell, Battling is a good analog for IBRO going on right here.

If you ever wondered, why, if this forum houses the most comprehensive list of HW champions ever period, ditto for female boxing, just did it again for Irish HWs, same is true for colored champions, the bodies, the rules, the laws, the myths, the religious aspects, the link from Greece to England, pre-13 colony American boxing, ancient Russian boxing, medieval european boxing, so on, why are none of these are stickied and why are things like what fight you watched last are. Ask Battling. He's super interested in the present Ukrainian situation so of course that gets a sticky in a boxing history section

Ukraine, Klitschko’s, appreciation

What fight did you watch recently/last night

Pugilistic Linguistic Library (PDF)

Classic Boxing Pictures

The Top 20 All-Time Greatest P4P List

Top 10 Heavies from best to worst

Welcome to Boxingscene History section. Please read.

I think I've made at least ten threads that are far, far, more historically important than any one of above currently stickied threads. Best thing up there is books and I just ripped them in my last post. You'll learn more about boxing history from my champions and authorities threads alone than that entire list of free books can provide.

So, IBRO, bit like Battling, I don't hate the dude or even usually give him **** for this, but do I respect him as a history fan? No. Mod? No. He's a nice levelheaded fella and that's the extent of my respect for him. If he had a badge he could hand out that said this guy knows history I'd give little ****s about that badge or earning it. At this point it's a mutual disinterest in even dealing with one another on the subject. Battling has never once ever given me any reason why my **** never gets stickied. So now I have very little interest in a staying presence here and have every intention of making my own space to avoid ****s like Battling or Adam Pollock.

Klitschko ****ing appreciation thread what a ****

What do you have against TBRB's rankings? I thought they were supposed to be unbiased.

[Marchegiano]

What do you have against TBRB's rankings? I thought they were supposed to be unbiased.

They uphold my other gripes.

The quickest way to say this:

Foxx made **** up to sell papers

Fleischer followed this

CBZ did a poor job figuring out Richard and Nat's bull

IBRO is just a copy of CBZ really

Ring of course upholds former Ring nonsense and even makes up new Ring nonsense

TBRB splits from Ring, claims some kind of integrity, and upholds everything from Ring from prior to the divorce


So if you want a source that has worked out Foxx/Fleischer lies and such nonsense those dudes wrote or put out for to sell their papers/mags and has some respected reputation guess what? You are boned. There is no source that works out the bull and tells you about it. Nor respected sources anyway. There are only sources that reprint the bull then proceed to attempt to control the narrative surrounding that bull.

TBRB is the good wholesome unbought and uncorrupted version of Ring. Except that's Ring's lineal and Ring's made up rules Ring simply pulled out of their ass with no precedence or reasoning that TBRB goes by.

How is Wlad a lineal champion? Ring made up some rating rule where 1 can fight 2 on their ratings and get called lineal.

Does TBRB do this too? There's my beef.

What the **** does John L Sullivan, Corbett, Fitzs, Jeffries, etc, you know...that actual lineal champions from a time before bodies, what do they know about ratings? Ratings did not exist. That's some return to the pre-body era of one belt one champion. Make **** up to get there using body era justifications....yeah, loads of history and integrity there.

How is Tyson stripped for inactivity? That too is just some **** Ring made up Corbett and co would have no understanding of. TBRB likes that made up bull.

It's not who was champion, it's not how the belt used to move, it's just a hosh-posh of historically themed fictions based on real life events.