Wladimir Klitschko's "jab jab grab" in the firmament of all-time

[billeau2]

Would you pick Marciano over Klitschko?

I really have a hard time deciding how this would work. Here are a couple of things I consider:


1) Bigger gloves actually allow a fighter to punch harder... this comes from the mouth of Bread, among other trainers. So the idea that punchers punch harder and need bigger gloves has to be thrown off the table.
2) Marciano fought in a crouch. When Marciano commentates his fights as the announcer, he makes a big point of constantly stressing this crouch to avoid getting hit. Klitsko has to hit down at Marciano... Marciano has to come in and attack Vlad. In reality both men will have a bit of a problem finding each other.
3) Different rules might affect outcomes... But something to consider is that Vlad flinches when he gets lighten up! Willard was a big guy and Dempsey managed to light him up. Both Dempsey and Marciano could take a shot and would be very aggressive against a big opponent to break them down.

With all that said? I don't think it is a given that the size level would make it impossible for Marciano. On the other hand:

1) Could Vlad just jab Marciano to death? Vlad had a great jab.
2) Is Vlad physically strong enough with size to stop Marciano from harming him in close in the clinch?

So who knows lol. Im leaning towards Marciano finding a way though.

[BattlingNelson]

Whom of note did the brothers Klitschko defeat?

As knowledgeable you are, I’m thinking that you don’t know. It’s probably bcs you’re a lazy fat yank and Wlad s fights wasn’t shown on fatyank tv and there was no notable heavies from fatyankeestan in Wlad s era. FYI Wlad was champion in the most competitive era ever and dominated the division for so many years that I have no problem saying that those people ranking him outside the top 10 dnsab.

[ShoulderRoll]

As knowledgeable you are, I’m thinking that you don’t know. It’s probably bcs you’re a lazy fat yank and Wlad s fights wasn’t shown on fatyank tv and there was no notable heavies from fatyankeestan in Wlad s era. FYI Wlad was champion in the most competitive era ever and dominated the division for so many years that I have no problem saying that those people ranking him outside the top 10 dnsab.

So on one hand we have people struggling to answer who of note the Klitschkos beat.

And on the other we have you claiming Wladimir was champion in the most competitive era ever.

Quite a wide range of opinion.

[The Old LefHook]

As knowledgeable you are, I’m thinking that you don’t know. It’s probably bcs you’re a lazy fat yank and Wlad s fights wasn’t shown on fatyank tv and there was no notable heavies from fatyankeestan in Wlad s era. FYI Wlad was champion in the most competitive era ever and dominated the division for so many years that I have no problem saying that those people ranking him outside the top 10 dnsab.

We don't have any trouble saying it about you either, thief.

[QueensburyRules]

So on one hand we have people struggling to answer who of note the Klitschkos beat.

And on the other we have you claiming Wladimir was champion in the most competitive era ever.

Quite a wide range of opinion.

- - I'd imagine nowhere near U xxxxx pantsize with the 30" inseam.

[QueensburyRules]

I wouldn't call him a great. Emmanuel Stuart knew that fighters in this era don't fight inside so he taught Klitsko a "reset" of sorts. In an era where fighters fought at all ranges Klitsko gets ****** out "holding" excessivly. Try holding Marciano lol.

- - Tossed 220 lb Povetkin around like a rag doll. Might launch Rocky out of the ring.

[Willow The Wisp]

Whom of note did the brothers Klitschko defeat?

It's a reasonable question from a good poster (and being a good poster is an honorable distinction here, so revel in it a little).
So let me try to make a case here.....
And to be clear. The case I'm making is that being the best in the world for awhile disqualifies a fighter from "Sucking". Lol. It shouldn't be this hard to sell.
First, let's agree that anyone dominating in the era being discussed is relegated to mine his legacy by quantity, not quality. Not a Sailor Tom or a Tom Gibbons or a Joe Frazier in sight. Not even a Gerry Cooney.
Therefore, use of the term "of note" is open to wide interpretation. Pele, Maradona, Beckham and Ronaldo are the only 4 Soccer players that I can name. There are no others "of note" where I come from. Perspective changes with the acquisition of knowledge.
Next, we bracket the time-frame.
Vitalli cracked the top 10 in mid 1999 with a 2 round destruction of touted Brit Herbie Hide in a WBO title eliminator. On his way there, in the late 80's - early 1990's he'd been a top Soviet Amateur boxer and a WAKO, ISKA and WKA Kickboxing champion (Pre K-1 era) while in his teens and early 20s. After turning pro his advancement opponent fodder was unremarkable.
Wladimir did quite a bit more, and was an Olympic gold medalist in the 1996 Atlanta games. He ascended as a top player by 10/2000 when capturing the lightly regarded WBO "world title" from slick Chris Byrd who had won that belt when Vitali had injured his shoulder in his tussle for that title six months prior. Before this he had lost a stamina upset to spoiler Ross "the Boss" Puritty and beaten decent upcommer type opposition in Koch, Shaheed, Pannell, Vujicic, title challenger Schultz, Olympic Silver medalist Wolfgramm, Bostice and Barrett, who were collectively 177-11-3, as well as title challenger Phil Jackson, decent Marcus McIntyre and trial horse Bigfoot Martin.
From 1999 and for the next 16 years, these two brothers featured prominently in the world rankings and between 2006 - 2015 they owned the flagship weight class of the most important combat sport.
The era of the Klitschkos ends 11/2015 with Wladimir's loss of the title to Tyson Fury (Vitali has retired prior, after beating Char, 09/08/2012, who to this day they are still trying to stick into some kind of title fight, Lol).
While Wladimir was the more active of the two and certainly beat many more top 25 opponents than did his brother, Vitali is the only heavyweight titleholder in history to have reigned during three distinct decades. The brothers are featured in the famed Guinness book of world records because between them they would engage 40 world title fights of varying sorts and collect up All of the major title belts, comprehensively cleaning out the available professionals campaigning in boxing during their reign of dominance, to start boxing history in the new millennium.
Between the years 2001 and 2015, the Gold Standard (Meh...another rant for another day) Ring Magazine, the “Bible of Boxing” for the past 100 years, saw 47 contenders crack their top 10.
These are listed below in chronological order, and an asterisk has been placed next to each one defeated by a Klitschko brother, who combined together; earned a remarkable professional record of 109-7-0 (94).
Mike Tyson
Evander Holyfield
Lennox Lewis
Andrew Golota
Shannon Briggs*
John Ruiz
Hassim Rahman*
Oleg Maskaev
Michael Grant
Larry Donald*
Kirk Johnson*
Chris Byrd*
David Tua
Jameel McCline*
Fres Oquendo
James Toney
Monte Barrett*
Corrie Sanders*
Roy Jones Jr.
Lamon Brewster*
Calvin Brock*
Samuel Peter*
Nikolay Valuev
Siarhei Liakhovich
Ruslan Chagaev*
Sultan Ibragimov*
Vladimir Virchis
Tony T****son*
Alexander Povetkin*
Juan Carlos Gomez*
Alexander Dimitrenko
Eddie Chambers*
David Haye*
Chris Arreola*
Denis Boytsov
Tomasz Adamek*
Robert Helenius
Kubrat Pulev*
Tyson Fury
Bermaine Stiverne
Odlanier Solis*
Deontay Wilder
Bryant Jennings*
Vyacheslav Glazkov
Mike Perez
Luis Ortiz
Anthony Joshua
In addition to those recognized as title contenders by The Ring; there are an additional 63 professionals who, during the years 2001 – 2015 were ranked by the WBA, WBC, IBF and WBO.
Other Contenders the Sanctioning Bodies ranked during 2001-2015:
Ray Mercer*
Francois Botha*
Axel Schultz*
Obed Sullivan*
Lance Mount Whitaker
David Izonroni
Derrick Jefferson*
Orlin Norris*
Oliver McCall
Kevin McBride
Vaughn Bean*
Larry Donald*
Andre Purlette
Clifford Etienne
Fabio Eduardo Moli*
Lawrence Clay-Bey
Elieser Castillo*
Gonzalo Omar Basile
Charles Shufford*
Ray Austin*
Danell Nicholson*
Danny Williams*
Chazz Witherspoon
Joe Mesi
Dominic Guinn
Brian Minto
Audley Harrison
DaVarryl Williamson*
Mike Mollo
Derric Rossy
Kali Meehan
Sinan Samil Sam
Luan Krasniqi
Jo el Scott
Atilla Levin
Jason Estrada
Owen Beck
Gerald Nobles
Kevin Johnson*
Albert Sosnowski*
Andrey Fedosov
Matt Skelton
Jean Francis Bergeron
Martin Rogan
Jean Marc Mormeck*
Mariusz Wach*
Carl David Drumond
Tony Grano
Amir Mansour
Francesco Pianeta*
Tomasz Ademek*
Derreck Chisora*
Mahmoud Charr*
Alex Leapai*
Seth Mitchell
David Price
Eric Molina
Malik Scott
Christian Hammer
Carlos Takam
Erkan Teper
Johann Duhaupas
A Summary:
As painful as it might be to say it; Very little opportunity for improvement here.
Between the rise of the Klitschkos in 2000 and their departure from the scene 15 years later, there were 47 Heavyweights ranked in the top 10 by The Ring Magazine, and an additional 62 ranked by the major sanctioning bodies, for a grand total of 109 contenders.
Of those 109 total contenders of their era; the Brothers beat 47 of them, missing only 62.
23 of the 47 contenders to crack the Ring's top 10, and 24 of the additional 62 ranked by the major sanctioning bodies.
Among those that were missed, several were left over from the previous era and still ranked. These include Lennox Lewis, Mike Tyson, Evander Holyfield & Andrew Golota. Only Lewis remained viable into the 21st century, as witnessed by his war with an emerging Vitally Klitschko in 2003. Tyson went just 4-3-1 in the new century, and Holyfield carrying on far too long, went 8-5-2.
Golota did his best work in the 90's and went just 7-5-2.

Likewise, a dozen of the missed contenders listed really became ranked as the Klitschko era was wrapping up. These include Joshua, Wilder, Ortiz, and Fury.
So excluding Lennox Lewis, Mike Tyson, Evander Holyfield & Andrew Golota, and Joshua, Wilder, Ortiz, and Fury; obviously the best of the lot, but all simply coming from adjoining (but different) eras; and eliminating those who the Klitschkos actually did beat while they roamed the landscape.........what more could they have done, to satisfy the critics?

And where are all these "Great Heavyweights" hiding for 15 years that would have bumped the Klitschkos off their perch, or made them great?

So, Let's list the best of the unmet possibilities for the Klitschko Brothers to bolster their legacy:
The Ring.........................
Andrew Golota
John Ruiz
Oleg Maskaev
Michael Grant
David Tua
Fres Oquendo
James Toney
Roy Jones Jr.
Nikolay Valuev
Siarhei Liakhovich
Vladimir Virchis
Alexander Dimitrenko
Denis Boytsov
Robert Helenius
The Sanctioning Bodies......................
Lance Mount Whitaker
David Izonroni
Oliver McCall
Kevin McBride
Andre Purlette
Clifford Etienne
Lawrence Clay-Bey
Gonzalo Omar Basile
Chazz Witherspoon
Joe Mesi
Dominic Guinn
Brian Minto
Audley Harrison
Mike Mollo
Derric Rossy
Kali Meehan
Sinan Samil Sam
Luan Krasniqi
Jo el Scott
Atilla Levin
Jason Estrada
Owen Beck
Gerald Nobles
Andrey Fedosov
Matt Skelton
Jean Francis Bergeron
Martin Rogan
Carl David Drumond
Tony Grano
Amir Mansour

Yup. Nothing much there. Sure no better than the list of who they DID beat over 15 years. That's for sure.
So What happened?
You've got a segment of the world population who are big, strong, tough, durable, committed, scrappy, quick, fit, brave and explosive enough to be trained into becoming a ranked heavyweight fighter. These people number, I suppose, in the hundreds of thousands in total. And; you have another segment of people who, for whatever reasons; are simply unmoved by the possibility of earning, say, 100 million dollars with their skills as they go through life. These too number in the hundreds of thousands. These are both fairly small groups to belong to. But people who reside in BOTH groups at once? Near Zero. Anyway, Don't try to tell me you don't want the money if you're leaving home every day to make a modest living for anything less than 200k per year. And don't pretend that you're brave if you believe that you have what it takes to earn a title shot in boxing, but simply elect to remain a ****e-bum working stiff instead, because “you prefer that”.
Truth is; a majority of people who possess ALL the requirements to crack that top ten; including the balls to try; have tried.
They didn't go into the NFL in large numbers, which hosts only 1,696 rostered players. The NBA has just 450. That's not dipping into the tough guy/Athlete pool very much at all.
They didn't got into The micro world of Kickboxing, or the low paying field of MMA; where their champion, a converted boxer himself is feeling under-appreciated and threatening to get out and return to his Boxing roots.
The fact is that the 21st century heavyweights are right there, in front of your eyes, and listed on this post. They were there all along; the special athletes over 200 pounds for whom playing kid's games for a living would not suffice. And between them; for the first decade and a half of the 21st century....Your century, kids; Vitali and Wladimir Klitschko just ate those contenders up for dinner. You just didn't have the boxing knowledge IQ to see it, you armchair critics, you. Lol.

[Willow The Wisp]

Lol, wait till you've made your bones and you've retired.

[BattlingNelson]

We don't have any trouble saying it about you either, thief.

You seem poor still.

[The Old LefHook]

Does anyone know when Vlad's sex change operation is scheduled for? Bat, I know you will be there!