His contemporaries George Foreman, Joe Frazier, Ken Norton, Earnie Shavers, Larry Holmes were all of drafting age during the war why was Ali singled out? Was he set-up?
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Why was Ali the only prominent boxer drafted into Vietnam?
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Originally posted by sentax View PostGeorge Foreman, Joe Frazier, Ken Norton, Earnie Shavers, Larry Holmes were all of drafting age during the war why was Ali singled out? Was he set-up?
Remember, Ali was initially unqualified for the draft because he tested ****** to put it bluntly.
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Originally posted by QueensburyRules View Post
- - Could be they had family or other issues making them invalid for a draft whereas Ali had no progeny at that point in time.
Remember, Ali was initially unqualified for the draft because he tested ****** to put it bluntly.Dynamite76 likes this.
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It is even stranger considering that Norton was once in the Marine Corps and that’s where he originally took up boxing. Yet, he never saw any action other than in the ring. So, you do raise a good point.
Still, while it is theoretically possible that the gov’t was trying to single out Ali because of his activism, I also haven’t heard of any concrete evidence of that.sentax likes this.
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We cannot rule out a little funny business given Ali's singularly unique meaning to the African American community at that time, and the fact that in 67' the stars of boxing were still the most high profile athletes in the world. Don't want to create conspiracy theory where no proof exists though.
However, strange things did occur showing how malleable the selective service standards could be.
A Life magizine story dated December 9, 1966 was run titled “The Draft—Who Beats It and How.” The main piece, by reporter Donald Jackson examined flaws in the law governing the draft and how deferments, exemptions, and other loopholes had fostered “a pervasive and probably healthy skepticism about the entire system.” The NFL warranted a seperate peice titled “Bald Case in Point: Pro Football’s Magical Immunity.”
During World War II, more than five hundred professional Baseball players had served in the military, and those included stars like Ted Williams and Joe DiMaggio; but during the Vietnam conflict, less than fifty players served; none of them stars.
More telling still, all ballplayers who served in a combat unit in Vietnam were drafted when they were minor-league players, not on a major-league roster.
Ali, as we know, was vulnerable as an operator in the freelance world of Boxing, where he had no employer to protect him. Interestingly, in the Vietnam Era, only 8% of the eligible men were ever drafted, so the odds were not that high of being called to serve.
Ali's teammate, Eddie Crook, Jr.(April 19, 1929-July 28, 2005), a career Army man, was an Olympic Gold medalist for the United States at the 1960 Olympic Games in Rome, in the 165 pound class. He served two tours in Vietnam with the US Army, and was awarded as Silver Star, Bronze Star, and two Purple Hearts.
Ken Norton served in the Marine Corps from 63' to 67', before he becane famous in 73'. Mac Foster, a top contender of the early 70s served in Vietnam, as did WBA world champ Mike Weaver, a Marine between 68' and 71', heavyweight hopeful Joey Orbillo, 140 lb. Champ Saoul Mamby (each serving before becoming well known in boxing), and Fred Lewis, who Ali beat for a spot on the 1960 team, who was an airman during the war.
We might also take a moment to remember 1964 Olympic Bronze medalist Flyweight Robert Carmody, who was killed in action serving with the United States Army in the Vietnam war.
billeau2 likes this.
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Can't pull the actual numbers out of my ass, need to look them up but . . . We were only drafting about 50% of any age group each year. This is sort of confirmed in the later years (1970-1972) by the lottery system. It was pretty much understood at the time if your lottery number was higher than 145 you probably weren't going to get called up.
The draft numbers seem so very high because the war lasted eight long years thus affecting millions upon millions. But year by year you could just wait out your elibility period and not get called. It wasn't a slam dunk that you were going, just a great fear you may be going.
But that number was also affected by the very large number of draft evaders (almost all white) who got college deferments, joined the reserves, medical deferments, family obligations, or left the country - thus the number of Blacks and Latinos who got called up was to some extent pushed higher.
Frazier I thought was married ?
In regards to actually seeing combat - we had troops all over the world (Cold War) so even if you got drafted it didn't necessarily means VN, and in VN we were running an army that had a 4 to 1 (support to combat) ratio, so between deferments, world wide obligations, and with many 'in the rear with the gear,' ending up in the the rice paddies took a good amount of bad luck.
Unless of course you asked for VN and combat, which in the early years (1965-1968) many did. Things didn't really start going sour in the military until after Tet (1968) or maybe even as late as the spring of 1970 (Cambodia) - before that we had very good unit cohesion and a very effective force.billeau2 likes this.
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Had he gone into the Army, he wasn’t going to see any combat. He would likely serve as a morale booster and putting on exhibitions, try to get some publicity out of him while he does USO type tours and appearances around military bases. Was he intentionally drafted as some form of punishment? Likely not, but military leaders understood the need to appeal to blacks in the turbulent sixties, and even more importantly to portray America as a unified country against the communists, regardless of what the truth was at home. Ali would have filled the role of goodwill ambassador.
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Originally posted by GhostofDempsey View PostHad he gone into the Army, he wasn’t going to see any combat. He would likely serve as a morale booster and putting on exhibitions, try to get some publicity out of him while he does USO type tours and appearances around military bases. Was he intentionally drafted as some form of punishment? Likely not, but military leaders understood the need to appeal to blacks in the turbulent sixties, and even more importantly to portray America as a unified country against the communists, regardless of what the truth was at home. Ali would have filled the role of goodwill ambassador.
But Ali understood he would have become a walking talking campaign poster for drafting African-Americans and that's a heavy burden to carry.
Joe Louis didn't t have such a dilemma; WWII was a war for national survival, we were either all in or all done.
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Originally posted by Willie Pep 229 View Post
Only after his death did someone in Ali's camp finally admit that the Army approached Ali back in '67 explaining exactly what Ali's role would be (the one you described above) just in case he was concerned about combat. Both Ali and the Army chose to remain silent about that meeting until Ali's death. Ali was left to suffer being called a coward.
But Ali understood he would have become a walking talking campaign poster for drafting African-Americans and that's a heavy burden to carry.
Joe Louis didn't t have such a dilemma; WWII was a war for national survival, we were either all in or all done.
And to be clear, he was only a hero to black ******s and white Vietnam war protestors, not the overwhelming white Christians including the Black populace lead by MLK. I never begrudged Ali his stance, but remember the vast majority of draftees no matter their race had not the means of Ali to resist the draft that became the wedge in LBJ's political war vs communism.
I reckon it was Dallas QBack Roger Staubach who served his stint in the Navy who was the most visible athlete doing his duty in Vietnam as part of his contract for a Navy education. H Ross Perot graduated to be put on a ship destined to Korea when that armistice was signed, so the captain instead went on a year long good will tour around the world that gave Ross his first world view as well as introduced him to computers and IBM personnel, and the rest history.GhostofDempsey
Willie Pep 229 like this.
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Well I remember hearing in one of the Ali-Frazier documentaries, I believe the Fight of the Century one HBO did, that Frazier got some kind of deferment. Whether Ali was singled out or not, I imagine he would've still lost some prime money making years in boxing, like Joe Louis did in WW2 right. Since Louis donated his earnings during that time, how did he even make money then? Some kind of investments?markusmod likes this.
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