Why was Ali the only prominent boxer drafted into Vietnam?

[Willie Pep 229]

Well I remember hearing in one of the Ali-Frazier documentaries, I believe the Fight of the Century one HBO did, that Frazier got some kind of deferment. Whether Ali was singled out or not, I imagine he would've still lost some prime money making years in boxing, like Joe Louis did in WW2 right. Since Louis donated his earnings during that time, how did he even make money then? Some kind of investments?

Louis 'donated' his two defense purses to try to get out of dutch with the IRS. He was an inductee for the first defense (Buddy Baer) and actually in uniform for the second (Abe Simon).

An unprecedented act on behalf of the military.

They just didn't need a star athlete, the HW Champion, in tax debt, not when the 'withholding tax' would appear on the common workingman's paycheck for the first time (1942). The rich (or even the perceived rich) had to pay their taxes, it was important, and Louis hadn't.

There was almost a third fight (Billy Conn rematch in October) that would have solved the tax debt problem for both Louis and Conn but Uncle Mike Jacobs' greed blew that opportunity.

Louis wouldn't be able to make any money until late 1944 (Nov) when they let him fight some exhibitions; not until after Normandy when we were comfortable we would win the War; although still in uniform they let him fight some exhibitions, and make some money.

Had Ali gone in he would have likely only lost two years of earning time; would likely have been able to fight exhibitions and stay in shape. Would have been able to fight Frazier in late '69; wouldn't have ended up broke.

But the price was too high, his soul.

[billeau2]

Only after his death did someone in Ali's camp finally admit that the Army approached Ali back in '67 explaining exactly what Ali's role would be (the one you described above) just in case he was concerned about combat. Both Ali and the Army chose to remain silent about that meeting until Ali's death. Ali was left to suffer being called a coward.

But Ali understood he would have become a walking talking campaign poster for drafting African-Americans and that's a heavy burden to carry.

Joe Louis didn't t have such a dilemma; WWII was a war for national survival, we were either all in or all done.

Ali made his actions and the thoughts behind them crystal clear... It was only the most ignorant press and sychophants of various sorts that would confuse Ali's statement with cowardice. Some people look at Kennedy's words as special "do not ask what your country can do for you, but what you can do for your countryt" some take up the mantel with King's famous "dream"... but for me? In some alternative time line somewhere kids are studying the civil rights movement and the industrial military complex that was grinded to a halt with two factors: The courage of pasty, non violent hippies, who confronted the troops and demanded people see humanity over war, often putting their bodies in the way of rifles to do so... and the short sentence spoken by the greatest boxer ever known to the world... a man who usually spoke too much... but on that day came up with the foil, and still some of the bravest words I have ever had the privalage to hear:

"what do I have against no Vietnamese? I ain't going to kill no Viet Com that did nothing to me."

[markusmod]

Well I remember hearing in one of the Ali-Frazier documentaries, I believe the Fight of the Century one HBO did, that Frazier got some kind of deferment. Whether Ali was singled out or not, I imagine he would've still lost some prime money making years in boxing, like Joe Louis did in WW2 right. Since Louis donated his earnings during that time, how did he even make money then? Some kind of investments?

I remember reading something similar

[soul_survivor]

I suspect because he was a brash popular people's champion the government wanted him to "dance" for them. If they could get a big mouth champion like Ali behind the war anyone could. Turn him into a Joe Louis for the Vietnam war. They wouldn't have put him the jungle but they would have used him for propaganda purposes.

Exactly this! End the thread.

[Willie Pep 229]

I suspect because he was a brash popular people's champion the government wanted him to "dance" for them. If they could get a big mouth champion like Ali behind the war anyone could. Turn him into a Joe Louis for the Vietnam war. They wouldn't have put him the jungle but they would have used him for propaganda purposes.

Yes, but maybe just the racism of a small group of Southern White Men and not the national temperament you suggest.

Clay was reclassified from 1-Y to 1-A due to an infamous program unofficially called "Project 100,000" - lowering the induction mental acuity test scores by a small percentage in 1966 the Military was able to reach back to 1960 and reevaluate 300,000 1-Y rejections and chose to reclassify them as 1-A, believing they would be able to find another 100,000 draft eligible candidates.

Clay's classification was changed by Local Board 47 (with an emphasis on 'local') representing Kentucky. Clay, who had relocated to Houston tried to get his status reviewed a second time in his new State of Texas, but you know, it was Texas. (I agree with your assement of the intended motive, but I would define it as Southern act not American one.)

Now on the other hand we must blame all of America for 'Project 100,000.' The act/decision is looked back on as infamous because it took men who were considered not bright/educated enough to serve in a peacetime army, and put them in the position of trying to survive Vietnam.

The government made a conscious decision to dupe the public by claiming they were reducing the test score requirement to enable more ********** the 'opportunity' to join the service.

The Pentagon memos that betrayed their actual intent where then buried as top secret and kept from the public until Ellseberg snuck them out and showed them to us (Pentagon Papers).

The reality of that 'opportunity' is best exzempfied by the military commanders actually on the ground in Vietnam, they called these new recruits the 'dumbbell brigade.'

These men were disapportionally sent into combat because their low test scores negated the opportunity for rear echelon positions.

There is a dispute, on going, as to whether these men were more likely to die in combat. The Military has not been forth coming in assisting historians in answering that question.

God bless Daniel Ellseberg. (I wonder if someday I'll be saying the same for Snowden?)

[GhostofDempsey]

But the price was too high, his soul.

I'm not so sure Ali's reasons for dodging the draft were all that noble. It had more to do with his allegiance and loyalty to Islam, who was pulling his puppet strings. Ali himself said, "War is against the teachings of the Qur'an. I'm not trying to dodge the draft. We are not supposed to take part in no wars unless declared by Allah or The Messenger (Elijah Muhammad then leader of Nation of Islam). We don’t take part in Christian wars or wars of any unbelievers".

[QueensburyRules]

- - Malcolm was assassinated by NOI 3 months before the Liston rematch, the whole reason that fight was held in Podunk, Maine.

At that point Ali walked a tight rope survival with Elijah, so better to go to jail for a time as a hero to his people and antiwar protestors than get assassinated and have his family firebombed as also happened to Malcolm when he strayed from the NOI flock.

[Willie Pep 229]

- - Malcolm was assassinated by NOI 3 months before the Liston rematch, the whole reason that fight was held in Podunk, Maine.

At that point Ali walked a tight rope survival with Elijah, so better to go to jail for a time as a hero to his people and antiwar protestors than get assassinated and have his family firebombed as also happened to Malcolm when he strayed from the NOI flock.

Wacking Ali seems too dangerous even for the NOI - I think they would have denounced him (if they did anything) in the same manner they chose to after he announced he was returning to boxing. They wanted him to stay a martyr (stay in poverty.)

There is a scene in the Will Smith film "Ali" (although a poster here doesn't agree with my interpretation) when Ali is speaking to Maclom X in a hotel parking lot. When X leaves Ali looks up at a hotel window and sees the d****s being pulled shut. He gets a forelonged look on his face. The message I took from it is that he knew he was being watched and that they wanted him to denounce X.

Killing X easy, the (White) government I suspect didn't feel much if any pressure to solve that murder. But killing Ali in '65 wasn't going sit well with the populace and the FBI was going to have to bring someone to justice and I think the NOI understood their limitations as to who they could and could not kill.

But that doesn't mean Ali was of my mind, he may truly felt in mortal danger as you suggest and believed his life was in danger.

But then again he did finally defy them when he chose to fight again in '70.

[QueensburyRules]

Wacking Ali seems too dangerous even for the NOI - I think they would have denounced him (if they did anything) in the same manner they chose to after he announced he was returning to boxing. They wanted him to stay a martyr (stay in poverty.)

There is a scene in the Will Smith film "Ali" (although a poster here doesn't agree with my interpretation) when Ali is speaking to Maclom X in a hotel parking lot. When X leaves Ali looks up at a hotel window and sees the d****s being pulled shut. He gets a forelonged look on his face. The message I took from it is that he knew he was being watched and that they wanted him to denounce X.

Killing X easy, the (White) government I suspect didn't feel much if any pressure to solve that murder. But killing Ali in '65 wasn't going sit well with the populace and the FBI was going to have to bring someone to justice and I think the NOI understood their limitations as to who they could and could not kill.

But that doesn't mean Ali was of my mind, he may truly felt in mortal danger as you suggest and believed his life was in danger.

But then again he did finally defy them when he chose to fight again in '70.

- - Quietly without fanfare they have supposed to be "reinvestigating" the Malcolm death because of recent racial turmoil.

All I know is he was killed in a public meeting while on the podium and his killers were known. Perhaps looking at a conspiracy of unknown hirelings. Sounds like modern h media hogwash with freshener, but such was a blurb in the news a few weeks back.

[Dynamite76]

He was heavyweight champion, in many ways the face of boxing and other sports, and being in the NOI, the government wanted him to be their puppet like Joe Louis was, as mentioned before in this thread. When he refused, TPTB were angered, hence the aftermath.