Which of the great Heavyweights never got a gift decision?

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  • Obama
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    #21
    Originally posted by Dynamite Kid
    That is the biggest myth out there.

    Larry Holmes beat Tim Witherpsoon clearly !! he threw more punches throughout and Witherspoon had a couple of strong rounds and was always keeping it competitive but he lost the fight clearly.

    Neither Berbick or Witherspoon had the kind of success people like to believe. I think the Snipes fight is over exaggerated to because Larry was winning that fight when it was stopped imo.
    I can't agree with this at all. Witherspoon clearly took Holmes to the Philadelphia school of slick boxing, although the verdict could go either way depending on what a man's bias is. At BEST however, Holmes won by 2 points. This is how I scored the fight:

    Round 1: 9 – 10 Witherspoon
    Tim easily picks off Larry's punches this round and lands the only clean and effective punches. Most of the scoring is done in the first half the the round as Tim just laughs at Larry for the rest of it.


    Round 2: 9 – 10 Witherspoon
    It's a battle of jabs in the early going of the second round, but Tim quickly backs Larry off as he goes to the body. Tim is countering well and Larry just can't seem to find the mark. This continues until the midway point of the round where Larry and Tim briefly tie up. They break apart as Tim slips in a sneaky short right. Tim later lands a left hook that seems to have awakened Larry a little. He flurries briefly but nothing lands. Larry manages to land a good right hand to the body and later another one to the head as he catches Tim rushing in at the end of the round. Tim is however unshaken and still clearly wins this round.


    *Round 3: 9 – 10 Witherspoon
    Larry does considerably better with the jab this round while Witherspoon is mostly content with staring at him, catching punches, and looking for an opening. He catches him clean here and there but without the force seen landed in the previous rounds. Midway through Larry lands a pretty good right hand that catches Tim on the ear. Meanwhile, Tim has been landing some good hooks to the body since the beginning of the round. Into the last minute of the round Tim lands his best body punch yet, and Larry clinches him in order to force a break and get out of the ring corner. Larry backs up with his hands down and eats eats one of Tim's hook-like-jabs for his troubles. As the round draws to a close Tim swings this close round his way by going on the offensive, landing a good left hook and straight right hand in the process. Larry is retreating quickly and holds on at the bell.


    Round 4: 9 – 10 Witherspoon
    Early in the round both fighters paw with the jab, and as Larry tries to sneak in a sharp one, Tim slips it and counters with a big right hand. The two exchange jabs back and forth for a good while, Larry throwing a little more, and Tim landing a lot more. At the end of the second minute Larry tries to flurry, but it's ineffective and Tim counters well to the body. Tim then seems to take his foot off the gas and lets Larry sneak in a couple punches, including a right hand with about 30 seconds to go in the round. However as before, too little and too late for Larry.


    Round 5: 10 – 9 Holmes
    Larry puts together a good combination early in this round that catches Tim's attention. Tim begins to pursue Larry vehemently and begins to get a little more physical. The right hand Larry landed at the end of his combination apparently didn't sit too well with Tim. Tim begins to put a lot of pressure on Larry, but Larry does a good job of keeping his distance. He manages to put together a few more good combinations, and a couple pot shots here and there to earn his first round of the fight. Tim meanwhile is competitive at all times and looks to be the one in control when the two fall in close.


    *Round 6: 10 – 9 Holmes
    This was a REALLY close round and could easily be ruled a draw or for either fighter. I gave it to Larry because he put in good bit of more work. Tim was a little more accurate, and landed the more meaningful punches, but just didn't let his hands go enough to claim this one for me.


    Round 7: 9 – 10 Witherspoon
    In the first half of this round Tim backed Larry up well and did great body work. And after a few good body punches, he'd throw one of his many hooks upstairs. Tim is clearly the aggressor in this round and is making up for taking his foot off the gas in the last one. Midway through he even begins to rock Larry with hooks upstairs. Larry comes back like the Champion he is, but is a good bit slower, and much less effective. However Tim takes his foot off the gas just long enough for Larry to get back into the swing of things and start putting together some good combinations. Finally caught clean by a good 1-2, Tim comes right back and works the body, then lands a great right hand that catches Larry on the chin and momentarily stops him in his tracks. Moments later Larry is seen briefly holding on to the ropes. But Tim seems to have punched himself out again, and mostly lets Larry off the hook for the rest of the round. Either way, this was clearly a Witherspoon round.


    *Round 8: 10 – 10 Even
    Neither man deserved to win this round. It was dead even, back and forth, the whole way through. No one left an impression. This was largely due to the fact that Tim was mostly content to focus on the body this round, and whenever he got to close Larry would either hold on or push him away. Consequently, no thrilling moments transpired.


    Round 9: 9 – 10 Witherspoon
    Tim has Larry hurt bad this round, with most of the round to go. Larry holds when he can, and puts together desperation combinations to keep Tim off of him. Tim meanwhile takes his time and continues to put the pressure on, and doesn't neglect going back to the body when appropriate. Halfway through the round Tim has Larry hurt even worse, as Larry takes a beating in the corner. Larry finds himself falling around the ring and you can hear Angelo Dundee yelling “He's Out of it!” over and over again. Larry somehow manages to stay on his feet and begins to throw haymakers in retaliation. Tim then, as he's done before, takes his foot off the gas and lets Larry recover. Tim does so little that he actually lets Larry win the last minute of the round, allowing Larry to avoid a 10 – 8 round in Tim's favor.


    Round 10: 10 – 9 Holmes
    For the first 2 minutes and 30 seconds of this round Larry gets on his toes and easily out boxes a tired, flat footed Witherspoon who doesn't put up much resistance aside from his usual defense. However, the last 30 seconds belonged to Tim as he literally turned into Muhammad Ali and gave the fans the greatest satisfaction of the round by beautifully performing the Ali shuffle and launching loose jabs directly into Larry's face. Nonetheless, too little too late, this was clearly a Holmes round.


    Round 11: 10 – 9 Holmes
    Close round, but I think it's a pretty clear round for Holmes. I like Larry's jabs over Tim's hooks in this round. Tim actually had trouble getting past the jab, something he appeared actively trying to do rather than simply not pursuing Larry as in other instances. Tim's footwork is what kept him a step behind Larry this round.


    *Round 12: 9 – 10 Witherspoon
    Close, competitive, entertaining round that I think Witherspoon pulled it out in. He landed all the eye popping punches, he landed with the better connect percentage, he managed to keep his work rate high, and he even threw in another Ali shuffle.




    Final Score: 4-7-1 Witherspoon (113 – 116)


    Score Variances:
    *Scoring the starred rounds even, I got it 3-4-5 Witherspoon (115 – 117).
    *Scoring all the starred rounds to Witherspoon, I got it 3-9 Witherspoon (111 – 117).
    *Scoring all the starred rounds to Holmes, I got it 7-5 Holmes (115 – 113).

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    • JAB5239
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      #22
      Originally posted by Caesar
      marciano and gift decision? never see
      I've never seen the fight, but the first LaStarza fight was said to be somewhat controversial and could possibly be labeled a gift decision.

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      • Thread Stealer
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        #23
        Originally posted by JAB5239
        I've never seen the fight, but the first LaStarza fight was said to be somewhat controversial and could possibly be labeled a gift decision.
        The first Lowry fight has been described as a controversial decision as well.

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        • Alc
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          #24
          Julio Cesar Chavez v Meldrick Taylor. Taylor was wining all rounds except 12 round when he was knocked out ,after he got up the ref stopped fight and were was only 6 seconds till the end of the round.
          Last edited by Alc; 08-14-2009, 02:07 AM.

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          • Dynamite Kid
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            #25
            Originally posted by Obama
            I can't agree with this at all. Witherspoon clearly took Holmes to the Philadelphia school of slick boxing, although the verdict could go either way depending on what a man's bias is. At BEST however, Holmes won by 2 points. This is how I scored the fight:

            Round 1: 9 – 10 Witherspoon
            Tim easily picks off Larry's punches this round and lands the only clean and effective punches. Most of the scoring is done in the first half the the round as Tim just laughs at Larry for the rest of it.


            Round 2: 9 – 10 Witherspoon
            It's a battle of jabs in the early going of the second round, but Tim quickly backs Larry off as he goes to the body. Tim is countering well and Larry just can't seem to find the mark. This continues until the midway point of the round where Larry and Tim briefly tie up. They break apart as Tim slips in a sneaky short right. Tim later lands a left hook that seems to have awakened Larry a little. He flurries briefly but nothing lands. Larry manages to land a good right hand to the body and later another one to the head as he catches Tim rushing in at the end of the round. Tim is however unshaken and still clearly wins this round.


            *Round 3: 9 – 10 Witherspoon
            Larry does considerably better with the jab this round while Witherspoon is mostly content with staring at him, catching punches, and looking for an opening. He catches him clean here and there but without the force seen landed in the previous rounds. Midway through Larry lands a pretty good right hand that catches Tim on the ear. Meanwhile, Tim has been landing some good hooks to the body since the beginning of the round. Into the last minute of the round Tim lands his best body punch yet, and Larry clinches him in order to force a break and get out of the ring corner. Larry backs up with his hands down and eats eats one of Tim's hook-like-jabs for his troubles. As the round draws to a close Tim swings this close round his way by going on the offensive, landing a good left hook and straight right hand in the process. Larry is retreating quickly and holds on at the bell.


            Round 4: 9 – 10 Witherspoon
            Early in the round both fighters paw with the jab, and as Larry tries to sneak in a sharp one, Tim slips it and counters with a big right hand. The two exchange jabs back and forth for a good while, Larry throwing a little more, and Tim landing a lot more. At the end of the second minute Larry tries to flurry, but it's ineffective and Tim counters well to the body. Tim then seems to take his foot off the gas and lets Larry sneak in a couple punches, including a right hand with about 30 seconds to go in the round. However as before, too little and too late for Larry.


            Round 5: 10 – 9 Holmes
            Larry puts together a good combination early in this round that catches Tim's attention. Tim begins to pursue Larry vehemently and begins to get a little more physical. The right hand Larry landed at the end of his combination apparently didn't sit too well with Tim. Tim begins to put a lot of pressure on Larry, but Larry does a good job of keeping his distance. He manages to put together a few more good combinations, and a couple pot shots here and there to earn his first round of the fight. Tim meanwhile is competitive at all times and looks to be the one in control when the two fall in close.


            *Round 6: 10 – 9 Holmes
            This was a REALLY close round and could easily be ruled a draw or for either fighter. I gave it to Larry because he put in good bit of more work. Tim was a little more accurate, and landed the more meaningful punches, but just didn't let his hands go enough to claim this one for me.


            Round 7: 9 – 10 Witherspoon
            In the first half of this round Tim backed Larry up well and did great body work. And after a few good body punches, he'd throw one of his many hooks upstairs. Tim is clearly the aggressor in this round and is making up for taking his foot off the gas in the last one. Midway through he even begins to rock Larry with hooks upstairs. Larry comes back like the Champion he is, but is a good bit slower, and much less effective. However Tim takes his foot off the gas just long enough for Larry to get back into the swing of things and start putting together some good combinations. Finally caught clean by a good 1-2, Tim comes right back and works the body, then lands a great right hand that catches Larry on the chin and momentarily stops him in his tracks. Moments later Larry is seen briefly holding on to the ropes. But Tim seems to have punched himself out again, and mostly lets Larry off the hook for the rest of the round. Either way, this was clearly a Witherspoon round.


            *Round 8: 10 – 10 Even
            Neither man deserved to win this round. It was dead even, back and forth, the whole way through. No one left an impression. This was largely due to the fact that Tim was mostly content to focus on the body this round, and whenever he got to close Larry would either hold on or push him away. Consequently, no thrilling moments transpired.


            Round 9: 9 – 10 Witherspoon
            Tim has Larry hurt bad this round, with most of the round to go. Larry holds when he can, and puts together desperation combinations to keep Tim off of him. Tim meanwhile takes his time and continues to put the pressure on, and doesn't neglect going back to the body when appropriate. Halfway through the round Tim has Larry hurt even worse, as Larry takes a beating in the corner. Larry finds himself falling around the ring and you can hear Angelo Dundee yelling “He's Out of it!” over and over again. Larry somehow manages to stay on his feet and begins to throw haymakers in retaliation. Tim then, as he's done before, takes his foot off the gas and lets Larry recover. Tim does so little that he actually lets Larry win the last minute of the round, allowing Larry to avoid a 10 – 8 round in Tim's favor.


            Round 10: 10 – 9 Holmes
            For the first 2 minutes and 30 seconds of this round Larry gets on his toes and easily out boxes a tired, flat footed Witherspoon who doesn't put up much resistance aside from his usual defense. However, the last 30 seconds belonged to Tim as he literally turned into Muhammad Ali and gave the fans the greatest satisfaction of the round by beautifully performing the Ali shuffle and launching loose jabs directly into Larry's face. Nonetheless, too little too late, this was clearly a Holmes round.


            Round 11: 10 – 9 Holmes
            Close round, but I think it's a pretty clear round for Holmes. I like Larry's jabs over Tim's hooks in this round. Tim actually had trouble getting past the jab, something he appeared actively trying to do rather than simply not pursuing Larry as in other instances. Tim's footwork is what kept him a step behind Larry this round.


            *Round 12: 9 – 10 Witherspoon
            Close, competitive, entertaining round that I think Witherspoon pulled it out in. He landed all the eye popping punches, he landed with the better connect percentage, he managed to keep his work rate high, and he even threw in another Ali shuffle.




            Final Score: 4-7-1 Witherspoon (113 – 116)


            Score Variances:
            *Scoring the starred rounds even, I got it 3-4-5 Witherspoon (115 – 117).
            *Scoring all the starred rounds to Witherspoon, I got it 3-9 Witherspoon (111 – 117).
            *Scoring all the starred rounds to Holmes, I got it 7-5 Holmes (115 – 113).


            Is that your scorecard or someone else's ?

            Witherspoon was competitive throughout but he was too inactive and lost the fight because of that.

            I dont understand how you could have Witherspoon winning, yes he fought well and he was competitive, but!! he showed Larry too much respect and did not do enough, he did too much waiting in some of the rounds and allowed Larry to take the rounds because he was busier. Watch the fight again and tell me this is not what was is happening.

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            • JAB5239
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              #26
              Originally posted by Thread Stealer
              The first Lowry fight has been described as a controversial decision as well.
              Very true. I knew there was another Marciano fight that was questioned, just couldn't think of against who. Good call.

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              • JAB5239
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                #27
                Originally posted by Alc
                Julio Cesar Chavez v Jermain Taylor. Taylor was wining all rounds except 12 round when he was knocked out ,after he got up the ref stopped fight and were was only 6 seconds till the end of the round.
                You're thinking of Meldrick Taylor, my friend. and While Taylor was ahead, it was on two cards. He hadn't won every round and had suffered the heavier damage. Scores at the time of the stoppage were 107-102, 104-105 and 108-104. I've always thought that was a fair stoppage and will defend why if asked to.

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                • Obama
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                  #28
                  Originally posted by Dynamite Kid
                  Is that your scorecard or someone else's ?

                  Witherspoon was competitive throughout but he was too inactive and lost the fight because of that.

                  I dont understand how you could have Witherspoon winning, yes he fought well and he was competitive, but!! he showed Larry too much respect and did not do enough, he did too much waiting in some of the rounds and allowed Larry to take the rounds because he was busier. Watch the fight again and tell me this is not what was is happening.
                  It's my scorecard...and considering Witherspoon is my personal homie, who do you think watched this fight more, you or me? If you want to debate something, pick holes in my round by round descriptions where you disagree as to who won the round, and we can take it from there.

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                  • princemanspoper
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                    #29
                    Originally posted by Alc
                    Julio Cesar Chavez v Jermain Taylor. Taylor was wining all rounds except 12 round when he was knocked out ,after he got up the ref stopped fight and were was only 6 seconds till the end of the round.
                    Typical sheepish ****** here.HBO must be so proud that it has been able to brainwash these dirty,stinking,delusional fools like this one right here.You've never even see the fight have you? Just be honest,You've never even seen the fight in it's entirety have you? Just watched HBO's legendary night episode and actually think you know how the fight played out

                    You're like Dunce in that you only follow the half truths,myths and lies bull**** that HBO feeds you.Go and actually watch boxing before you discuss it you ****ing moron

                    Oh and has Jermain Taylor been main eventing cards in las vegas since he was 11?


                    Originally posted by Obama
                    It's my scorecard...and considering Witherspoon is my personal homie,

                    Personal homie eh? ****** dunce.Take your mock urban language and shove it up your backside you little piss ant.In all likelyhood you're a scrawny middle class white kid which makes it even more embarrassing
                    Last edited by princemanspoper; 08-13-2009, 04:28 PM.

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                    • JAB5239
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                      #30
                      [QUOTE]
                      Originally posted by princemanspoper
                      Typical sheepish ****** here.HBO must be so proud that it has been able to brainwash these dirty,stinking,delusional fools like this one right here.You've never even see the fight have you? Just be honest,You've never even seen the fight in it's entirety have you? Just watched HBO's legendary night episode and actually think you know how the fight played out

                      You're like Dunce in that you only follow the half truths,myths and lies bull**** that HBO feeds you.Go and actually watch boxing before you discuss it you ****ing moron


                      Stop being an *******. You can apply everything you've said here to more than half your boxing posts. Yeah he's wrong, but you're the pot calling the kettle black.

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