Which of the great Heavyweights never got a gift decision?

[TheGreatA]

Foreman(Axl Schulz)
Frazier(Oscar Bonavena)

I don't believe Jack Dempsey or Jack Johnson ever received a gift decision.

Both of them received gift newspaper decision for example Dempsey against John Lester Johnson and Billy Miske, Johnson against Battling Jim Johnson and perhaps O'Brien (although it was only a 6 round fight).

[Sugarj]

I dont think Gene Tunney ever got a gift decision. Only loss was clearly avenged. I personally dont think there was any controversy with the 'long count' in the Dempsey match. Dempsey didn't go to a neutral corner straight away after the knockdown and would have much preferred to have stood over Gene and whack the granny out of him the moment he stood up as he did to Willard.

[TheGreatA]

I dont think Gene Tunney ever got a gift decision. Only loss was clearly avenged. I personally dont think there was any controversy with the 'long count' in the Dempsey match. Dempsey didn't go to a neutral corner straight away after the knockdown and would have much preferred to have stood over Gene and whack the granny out of him the moment he stood up as he did to Willard.

You could argue that he was given a "gift" in the 2nd and 4th Greb fights (the third was also somewhat close) and the Tommy Loughran fight which on boxrec.com was briefly displayed as a Loughran win.

http://www.boxrec.com/media/index.php?title=Fight:18748

[Sugarj]

Interesting! I'd never heard anything to suggest that Tunney didn't win his subsequent fights with Greb clearly. Obviously the first fight was dominantly in favour of Greb.

I've not seen the films, I dont know if they exist?

Same with Loughran, never heard that it was anything other than a gruelling win for Gene.

[Obama]

Description on the Jack Johnson vs Battling Jim Johnson draw:
*Note, this was the first World Heavyweight title fight between two Black fighters

"Jack Johnson, the heavyweight champion, and Battling Jim Johnson, another colored pugilist, of Galveston, Texas, met in a 10-round contest here tonight, which ended in a draw. The spectators loudly protested throughout that the men were not fighting, and demanded their money back. Many of them left the hall. The organizers of the fight explained the fiasco by asserting that Jack Johnson's left arm was broken in the third round. There is no confirmation of a report that Jack Johnson had been stabbed and no evidence at the ringside of such an accident. During the first three rounds he was obviously playing with his opponent. After that it was observed that he was only using his right hand. When the fight was over he complained that his arm had been injured. Doctors who made an examination, certified to a slight fracture of the radius of the left arm. The general opinion is that his arm was injured in a wrestling match early in the week, and that a blow tonight caused the fracture of the bone." Indianapolis Star

[Dynamite Kid]

The guy that stands out the most to me, unquestionably, is Mike Tyson. If he won the fight, he WON the fight. I suppose if this question included gift stoppages, then the first Ruddock fight could come into question, not that Tyson was losing or in danger of losing that fight anyways. Nonetheless, that's not the question, and if it was it would look a whole lot worse for other great Heavyweights rather than Tyson.

SOME great Heavyweights who got gift decisions:

Ali (Norton III, Young)
Louis (Walcott I)
Holmes (Witherspoon)
Lewis (Mercer)
Holyfield (Bowe II, Mercer, Ruiz I)
Marciano (Roland LaStarza I, Ted Lowry I)
Sharkey (Renault, Schmeling II)

Feel free to add, disagree, etc. I purposefully left things out just to get responses.

That is the biggest myth out there.

Larry Holmes beat Tim Witherpsoon clearly !! he threw more punches throughout and Witherspoon had a couple of strong rounds and was always keeping it competitive but he lost the fight clearly.

Neither Berbick or Witherspoon had the kind of success people like to believe. I think the Snipes fight is over exaggerated to because Larry was winning that fight when it was stopped imo.

[TheGreatA]

Description on the Jack Johnson vs Battling Jim Johnson draw:
*Note, this was the first World Heavyweight title fight between two Black fighters

Here's a New York Times article:

[IMG]http://img.***********.com/albums/v309/TheManchine/Muut%20kuvat/johnson1.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://img.***********.com/albums/v309/TheManchine/Muut%20kuvat/johnson2.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://img.***********.com/albums/v309/TheManchine/Muut%20kuvat/johnson3.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://img.***********.com/albums/v309/TheManchine/Muut%20kuvat/johnson4.jpg[/IMG]

http://img.***********.com/albums/v3...t/johnson5.jpg

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/abstrac...649D946296D6CF

However the big controversy about this fight was not the decision, it was how Jack Johnson basically called the fight off after 10 rounds due to his arm injury despite the bout having been scheduled for 20 rounds.

[Xyei]

I've heard it argued that Tyson got a bit of a gift against James Tillis in his first fight that went the distance. This is not my opinion but I have heard people say that they thought Quick Tillis won the fight. I think you're right. Tyson either won or he didn't, there was no grey area at the end of any of his fights. Anyway, cool thread.

[TheGreatA]

I've heard it argued that Tyson got a bit of a gift against James Tillis in his first fight that went the distance. This is not my opinion but I have heard people say that they thought Quick Tillis won the fight. I think you're right. Tyson either won or he didn't, there was no grey area at the end of any of his fights. Anyway, cool thread.

It would have been a draw if not for a knockdown Tyson scored.

[princemanspoper]

I know Joe Frazier got his backside handed to him in the first fight against Bonavena.The fight wasn't close,Bonavena handled him,Unfortunately aggression counts alot in new york even if it's ineffective aggression


Larry holmes didn't deserve his decisions over williams and witherspoon either.Foreman had some iffy decisions aswell