Why is Jack Johnson rated so high...

[travestyny]

That thread was a joke to bust your balls and you know it. I twisted the entire Montréal story around just to screw with you. Go ahead and pull it up if you like it was an amusing piece

For the record it was the chairman for MSG who first said yes to Montréal and then the same guy said no two days later. I blamed that on Wills. I knew it wasn't his fault but New York's.

I knew 1922 well before I met you. . . But I even said I hadn't study 1926 and was ignorant about it.

Then you brought up the breached contract and that got exciting . . . And what growth came out of it was this guy Floyd Fitzsimmons (whom I didn't know about until then) and he has turned out to be a big piece of the1926 puzzle, for that thank you.

I'll read the Kompton article but for all the effort I have put in trying to share with you what I have figured, why can't you give me one post where you express your what's and why's for 1922?

Didn't this guy Kompton post on the Boxrec board as well?

Lmao. Good try to cover. I know that's not what happened


Here's some advice. Just stop with the excuses. Face reality.

[travestyny]

In regards to the cult of Dempsey have you not notice I almost never mention him?

He is useless in trying to figure this out, between color line statements - retraction - statements and then more retraction he has become a useless source to his own history.

Dude, this is not the first time you've behaved like this when someone mentioned Dempsey. You did the same thing to Jab in another thread. But you guys don't see how looney you get regarding him.

[JAB5239]

That thread was a joke to bust your balls and you know it. I twisted the entire Montréal story around just to screw with you. Go ahead and pull it up if you like it was an amusing piece

For the record it was the chairman for MSG who first said yes to Montréal and then the same guy said no two days later. I blamed that on Wills. I knew it wasn't his fault but New York's.

I knew 1922 well before I met you. . . But I even said I hadn't study 1926 and was ignorant about it.

Then you brought up the breached contract and that got exciting . . . And what growth came out of it was this guy Floyd Fitzsimmons (whom I didn't know about until then) and he has turned out to be a big piece of the1926 puzzle, for that thank you.

I'll read the Kompton article but for all the effort I have put in trying to share with you what I have figured, why can't you give me one post where you express your what's and why's for 1922?

Didn't this guy Kompton post on the Boxrec board as well?

Klompton has posted here, but is or at least was a regular in ESB's history forum. He has probably posted on Boxrec, but i cant say for sure. He also authored "Live fast, die young, the life and times of Harry Greb". He is very well versed in that era.

[GhostofDempsey]

Dude. You realize that your idol ducked his #1 contender for something like 6 years and never even fought a black man again after one of them broke three of his ribs, right?


I mean for you to keep talking shlt about other boxers when that is on your idols ledger. Please. Harry Wills resume destroy's Dempsey's. On top of the fact that Dempsey ran from him his entire career, as one of your own links admits. I think you should be quiet


You can talk about losses but the name of the game is fighting. Your guy wouldn't fight. Period.

Wills was not the #1 contender, his record speaks otherwise. You can trawl all the anonymous newspaper clippings you want and cherry pick all the quotes you want. You can also paddle on about broken ribs and magical tape, but here are just as many sources I have posted that dispute all of it. You choose to ignore it and double down on your same tired, anonymous sources that are cherry picked to support your agenda.

Wills feasted on smaller fighters for most of his career. Watch film of Wills fights, he is not at all impressive in any way.

During Dempsey's reign Wills fought old black and white names that were past their sell by date.

Gunboat Smith who retired after their fight

Kid Norfolk who was previously KO’d by Tiger Flowers and went the distance with one of Dempsey’s black sparring partners, Battling Gahee.

Clark, Langford and McVey.

He met Clark 5 times.

During Dempsey's Reign Clark:

Had 24 fights winning just 7 and was ko'd 5 times.

Langford and McVey's records during Dempsey's reign reveal they were damaged goods by then.

Bill Tate

Dempsey's sparring partner, Wills fought Bill 5 times, 3 wins, 1 loss, 1 draw.

Wills notable wins over real contenders during Dempsey's reign are the following:

Fred Fulton ko 3 rounds Fulton had earlier been destroyed by Dempsey in 23 seconds.

Luis Firpo w 10 dec, Firpo had been KO’d by Dempsey inside 4 minutes—and knocked down 10 times.

Charley Weinert

Harry Wills kod Weinert in 2 rounds in 1925

During Dempsey's reign, Weinert was beaten by:

Jim Maloney L ko3 rds 1926
Luis Firpo 1923 L ko 2rds
GeneTunney 1922 L ko 4rds
Gene Tunney 1922L dec 12 rds
Harry Foley 1922L tko
Billy Miske 1922 dec L 12rds
Harry Greb 1922 L tko
Harry Greb 1921 Ldec
Al Roberts 1919 L dec .

Bartley Madden

Harry Wills beat Madden over 15rds in ‘24

During Dempsey's Reign Madden was beaten by:

Dave Magill 1925 dsq
Tommy Gibbons 1921 L10
Harry Greb 1921 L10
Bob Roper 1921 L10
Charley Weinert 1920 L10
Harry Greb 1920 L10
Fred Fulton 1920 L6
Bill Brennan 1920 L10
Battling Levinsky 1919 L10
Joe Jeannette 1919 Ldsq 4rd

During Dempsey's title reign Wills' claim as the number one contender rests on these wins. Hardly #1 contender material. There was nothing there to duck.

[GhostofDempsey]

That thread was a joke to bust your balls and you know it. I twisted the entire Montréal story around just to screw with you. Go ahead and pull it up if you like it was an amusing piece

For the record it was the chairman for MSG who first said yes to Montréal and then the same guy said no two days later. I blamed that on Wills. I knew it wasn't his fault but New York's.

I knew 1922 well before I met you. . . But I even said I hadn't study 1926 and was ignorant about it.

Then you brought up the breached contract and that got exciting . . . And what growth came out of it was this guy Floyd Fitzsimmons (whom I didn't know about until then) and he has turned out to be a big piece of the1926 puzzle, for that thank you.

I'll read the Kompton article but for all the effort I have put in trying to share with you what I have figured, why can't you give me one post where you express your what's and why's for 1922?

Didn't this guy Kompton post on the Boxrec board as well?

Klompton is somewhat of a Dempsey hater. I have his Greb book. Seen some of his posts. Can’t say I disagree with all of them but like everyone else, he formed an opinion and it doesn’t carry any more weight than other researchers who disagree with him.

Travesty has run out of steam and as I’ve pointed out to him several times, anyone can cherry pick a hundred year old article to pretend it is the final word and gospel on Dempsey or Johnson. I have already proven to him how Johnson ducked Jeannette, McVey and Langford while champion and now he’s angry, so he needs to make the thread about Dempsey yet again. This is how you know he is both triggered and owned. He does this in the Lounge too, unrelated discussions about current events eventually turn to Dempsey whenever he is painted into a corner and proven to be wrong about something. It’s a mental disorder. But he keeps me entertained so every so often I poke the mental patient to watch him come unraveled and cry Dempsey, DEMPSEY, DEMPSEY…hand wraps, Wills, blah blah blah. This is every time, right on cue, very predictable.

[travestyny]

Wills was not the #1 contender, his record speaks otherwise. You can trawl all the anonymous newspaper clippings you want and cherry pick all the quotes you want. You can also paddle on about broken ribs and magical tape, but here are just as many sources I have posted that dispute all of it. You choose to ignore it and double down on your same tired, anonymous sources that are cherry picked to support your agenda.

Wills feasted on smaller fighters for most of his career. Watch film of Wills fights, he is not at all impressive in any way.

During Dempsey's reign Wills fought old black and white names that were past their sell by date.

Gunboat Smith who retired after their fight

Kid Norfolk who was previously KO’d by Tiger Flowers and went the distance with one of Dempsey’s black sparring partners, Battling Gahee.

Clark, Langford and McVey.

He met Clark 5 times.

During Dempsey's Reign Clark:

Had 24 fights winning just 7 and was ko'd 5 times.

Langford and McVey's records during Dempsey's reign reveal they were damaged goods by then.

Bill Tate

Dempsey's sparring partner, Wills fought Bill 5 times, 3 wins, 1 loss, 1 draw.

Wills notable wins over real contenders during Dempsey's reign are the following:

Fred Fulton ko 3 rounds Fulton had earlier been destroyed by Dempsey in 23 seconds.

Luis Firpo w 10 dec, Firpo had been KO’d by Dempsey inside 4 minutes—and knocked down 10 times.

Charley Weinert

Harry Wills kod Weinert in 2 rounds in 1925

During Dempsey's reign, Weinert was beaten by:

Jim Maloney L ko3 rds 1926
Luis Firpo 1923 L ko 2rds
GeneTunney 1922 L ko 4rds
Gene Tunney 1922L dec 12 rds
Harry Foley 1922L tko
Billy Miske 1922 dec L 12rds
Harry Greb 1922 L tko
Harry Greb 1921 Ldec
Al Roberts 1919 L dec .

Bartley Madden

Harry Wills beat Madden over 15rds in ‘24

During Dempsey's Reign Madden was beaten by:

Dave Magill 1925 dsq
Tommy Gibbons 1921 L10
Harry Greb 1921 L10
Bob Roper 1921 L10
Charley Weinert 1920 L10
Harry Greb 1920 L10
Fred Fulton 1920 L6
Bill Brennan 1920 L10
Battling Levinsky 1919 L10
Joe Jeannette 1919 Ldsq 4rd

During Dempsey's title reign Wills' claim as the number one contender rests on these wins. Hardly #1 contender material. There was nothing there to duck.

LMAO.

Who cares about this. It's clear that Wills has a superior resume to Dempsey. So what is the point of this?

Why are you wasting your time even trying this angle. You can't win this argument at all. Don't even try.

[travestyny]

Klompton is somewhat of a Dempsey hater. I have his Greb book. Seen some of his posts. Can’t say I disagree with all of them but like everyone else, he formed an opinion and it doesn’t carry any more weight than other researchers who disagree with him.

Travesty has run out of steam and as I’ve pointed out to him several times, anyone can cherry pick a hundred year old article to pretend it is the final word and gospel on Dempsey or Johnson. I have already proven to him how Johnson ducked Jeannette, McVey and Langford while champion and now he’s angry, so he needs to make the thread about Dempsey yet again. This is how you know he is both triggered and owned. He does this in the Lounge too, unrelated discussions about current events eventually turn to Dempsey whenever he is painted into a corner and proven to be wrong about something. It’s a mental disorder. But he keeps me entertained so every so often I poke the mental patient to watch him come unraveled and cry Dempsey, DEMPSEY, DEMPSEY…hand wraps, Wills, blah blah blah. This is every time, right on cue, very predictable.

Ohhhh, Mr. Hypocritical used to be all about the historians...until they don't agree with him. Then we question how much weight they carry, huh?


Dude. All you do is run and avoid questions. You have never proven a thing here except that your posting in the history section is based on just as much emotion as your posting in the lounge, and that's not only terribly unfortunate but also terribly sad

[travestyny]

Wills was not the #1 contender, his record speaks otherwise. You can trawl all the anonymous newspaper clippings you want and cherry pick all the quotes you want. You can also paddle on about broken ribs and magical tape, but here are just as many sources I have posted that dispute all of it. You choose to ignore it and double down on your same tired, anonymous sources that are cherry picked to support your agenda.

Wills feasted on smaller fighters for most of his career. Watch film of Wills fights, he is not at all impressive in any way.

During Dempsey's reign Wills fought old black and white names that were past their sell by date.

Gunboat Smith who retired after their fight

Kid Norfolk who was previously KO’d by Tiger Flowers and went the distance with one of Dempsey’s black sparring partners, Battling Gahee.

Clark, Langford and McVey.

He met Clark 5 times.

During Dempsey's Reign Clark:

Had 24 fights winning just 7 and was ko'd 5 times.

Langford and McVey's records during Dempsey's reign reveal they were damaged goods by then.

Bill Tate

Dempsey's sparring partner, Wills fought Bill 5 times, 3 wins, 1 loss, 1 draw.

Wills notable wins over real contenders during Dempsey's reign are the following:

Fred Fulton ko 3 rounds Fulton had earlier been destroyed by Dempsey in 23 seconds.

Luis Firpo w 10 dec, Firpo had been KO’d by Dempsey inside 4 minutes—and knocked down 10 times.

Charley Weinert

Harry Wills kod Weinert in 2 rounds in 1925

During Dempsey's reign, Weinert was beaten by:

Jim Maloney L ko3 rds 1926
Luis Firpo 1923 L ko 2rds
GeneTunney 1922 L ko 4rds
Gene Tunney 1922L dec 12 rds
Harry Foley 1922L tko
Billy Miske 1922 dec L 12rds
Harry Greb 1922 L tko
Harry Greb 1921 Ldec
Al Roberts 1919 L dec .

Bartley Madden

Harry Wills beat Madden over 15rds in ‘24

During Dempsey's Reign Madden was beaten by:

Dave Magill 1925 dsq
Tommy Gibbons 1921 L10
Harry Greb 1921 L10
Bob Roper 1921 L10
Charley Weinert 1920 L10
Harry Greb 1920 L10
Fred Fulton 1920 L6
Bill Brennan 1920 L10
Battling Levinsky 1919 L10
Joe Jeannette 1919 Ldsq 4rd

During Dempsey's title reign Wills' claim as the number one contender rests on these wins. Hardly #1 contender material. There was nothing there to duck.

Just in case you don't get what I'm alluding to above.....

Dempsey admit he was afraid of old Langford, and wanted to fight two White men instead of old Jeannette.


Let that sink in, buddy

[Willie Pep 229]

Dude, this is not the first time you've behaved like this when someone mentioned Dempsey. You did the same thing to Jab in another thread. But you guys don't see how looney you get regarding him.

I don't want to go looney on you I just love the topic. It is the most interesting, convoluted, and controversial topic in the fight game.

I want to debate it - I want to be corrected - I want to be challenged - I just don't want it to be a win-lose thing.

I believe Dempsey afraid of Wills just isn't enough of an answer.

P.S. I was just breaking balls. I have always believed and always said that Wills would have fought Dempsey anywhere under any condition.

Wills got used like a pawn by everyone involved and that includes the guys who claimed they were championing his cause.

His denial at a shot is probably one of the top five injust acts in the history of the game.

But Dempsey scared just doesn't work for me, there's got to be more to the story and we have to keep looking deeper.

Also what you and Jab say that Dempsey had a moral obligation to make the fight - I can't wrap my head around that - a fighter gives up a large % for someone to make those decision for him - a fighter making those decisions for himself is like being your own lawyer. Not smart.

[GhostofDempsey]

LMAO.

Who cares about this. It's clear that Wills has a superior resume to Dempsey. So what is the point of this?

Why are you wasting your time even trying this angle. You can't win this argument at all. Don't even try.

Nope, not superior. You can cry about this all you want, you’ve exhausted all your resources and come up with nothing definitive to prove anything. What a way to spend a Saturday night! LMAO!