Why is Jack Johnson rated so high...

[travestyny]

So Johnson demanded $30K for Langford, Jeannette or McVey, but was willing to fight for less than $5K for Jim Johnson. That's less than he would have gotten if he had honored his original contract with Langford which Johnson reneged on. That's really all we need to know about who was ducking who and his double standards. Hell, he demanded a $5K side bet from Kid Cotton who wasn't even as good as Battling Jim.

As I already mentioned, it was a quick money grab. The fight was made for Moran. The Jim Johnson fight came later and was set for the same month that the Moran fight was to be. The Moran fight was then shifted to the 2nd week of January before Johnson got injured in the Battling Jim fight and had to have the Moran fight postponed.

I don't think this has anything to do with the Langford fight other than perhaps being evidence that supports Johnson's position that the fight wouldn't sell well. No one would expect Johnson to fight him under those conditions. I think it has more to do with Johnson cherry picking Battling Jim for a money grab fight to precede the main fight in a few weeks.

[Poet682006]

Most of the fighters back then had day jobs. These were factory workers and farm boys fighting each other. They may have been "professional prize fighters" but boxing wasnt their career. The skill level was reflective of that.

Phuck off, Junior, the adults are talking ,,!,,

[GhostofDempsey]

I already posted it.

The New York Times article on it as well as Jack Dempsey's article on it. "They called me a Bum." -- September 1925



This was before he was champion, so I don't think he was pulling in big gates just yet. And no one said he was afraid of Jeannette. But he damn sure wanted to fight 2 men instead of Jeannette. So you can draw your own conclusions from that.

Again, that was Kearns who held Dempsey back and insisted he would not be allowed to fight Jeannette. It's stated as such in the article:

"Kearns, perfumed and peeved, bobbed about the press seats, strenuously arguing that Dempsey had offered his services gratis to fight a Caucasian named Bond: that he would fight none other. The hissing of ten thousand serpents singed Dempseys ears. The Negros lips curled over shining teeth. Dempsey sprang from his chair for the ring, but a lavender-cuffed hand of Kearns restrained him. You stay put, Kearns barked as shrieks of Quitter! Big bum! Yeller dog! issued from the smoke clouds in the galleries."

None of you have named one fighter who took a fight under these circumstances. You are in fact holding Dempsey to a higher and unfair standard.

I would also argue that the author of that article has used some literary flare to make the story more dramatic, and not so much in Dempsey's exact words.

[GhostofDempsey]

As I already mentioned, it was a quick money grab. The fight was made for Moran. The Jim Johnson fight came later and was set for the same month that the Moran fight was to be. The Moran fight was then shifted to the 2nd week of January before Johnson got injured in the Battling Jim fight and had to have the Moran fight postponed.

I don't think this has anything to do with the Langford fight other than perhaps being evidence that supports Johnson's position that the fight wouldn't sell well. No one would expect Johnson to fight him under those conditions. I think it has more to do with Johnson cherry picking Battling Jim for a money grab fight to precede the main fight in a few weeks.

Glad you mentioned that, but it's still indicative of Johnson cherry picking and refusing to give Langford, McVey and Jeannette legitimate title shots when he was perfectly willing to cross the color line for a lesser fighter. As I quoted in the other post, he admitted he was drawing the color line.

[Ivich]

Glad you mentioned that, but it's still indicative of Johnson cherry picking and refusing to give Langford, McVey and Jeannette legitimate title shots when he was perfectly willing to cross the color line for a lesser fighter. As I quoted in the other post, he admitted he was drawing the color line.

Signing to defend against Langford,McVey, and Jeannette shows that he was perfectly willing to fight any boxer regardless of his colour ,just as long as he got his price of $30,000.And despite repeated requests from me you haven;t produced a single piece of proof that a promoter anywhere in the world was willing to give him that amount! Johnson signed to fight Moran for $35,000 and a % of the film rights.He got $ 31,500 and a % of the film rights for defending against Flynn Why on earth would he fight any of the black trio for peanuts?

[Willie Pep 229]

Why didn't French promoter agree to pay Johnson his $,30,000 and put those fight son if they would have been profitable fights then? Do you always respond to questions by ignoring them and replying with a question of your own? Or is it only when you dont have a logical answer to give? I'll look for Johnson's purse against BJJ meantime Id like answers to the earlier questions that I posed you.
Q. Which victory of George Kid Cotton's entitled him to a title shot with Johnson?
Q. Kid Cotton has record of 26 fights won 6 lost15 having been ko'd 10 times given those figures why would Johnson avoid him?
Q. Name a promoter that offered Johnson his asking price to fight the black trio that he refused to defend his title for?
Q. Why would a promoter, knowing beforehand , that the fight would not be allowed go to the trouble of hiring a venue,hiring officials,labour to erect the ring etc go to that expense knowing he would not be compensated for it?
Meanwhile chew on this.
" On July 19th 1912 in Philadelphia black boxer,Battling Jim Johnson defeated Joe Jeannette in a six round No Decision bout.
In the 3rd rd Jeannette tried some wrestling,and Johnson showed he was a good wrestler too,tossing Joe to the floor. In the 5th rd Johnson dropped Jeannette with a hard punch to the jaw.Joe was shaken but fought back hard.Both were tired in the 6th round.
Joe used stomach blows,but Johnson was as hard as nails and Joe was forced to hold to avoid punishment.
The Freeman July 20th 1912.
November 17th in Boston Gunboat Smith won a12 rd decision over Sam Langford.
On Jan1st 1914 the London Olympic SC offered Johnson a purse of $30,00 to defend against Langford the purse to be split 3/4 the winner, 1/4 the loser.The NSC offered Johnson 15,000 purse to defend against Langford. At this time Johnson was matched to defend against Moran for a $35,000 WIN OR LOSE guarantee in Paris in June.
WHICH FIGHT WOULD YOU HAVE TAKEN?

.............

[travestyny]

Again, that was Kearns who held Dempsey back and insisted he would not be allowed to fight Jeannette. It's stated as such in the article:

"Kearns, perfumed and peeved, bobbed about the press seats, strenuously arguing that Dempsey had offered his services gratis to fight a Caucasian named Bond: that he would fight none other. The hissing of ten thousand serpents singed Dempseys ears. The Negros lips curled over shining teeth. Dempsey sprang from his chair for the ring, but a lavender-cuffed hand of Kearns restrained him. You stay put, Kearns barked as shrieks of Quitter! Big bum! Yeller dog! issued from the smoke clouds in the galleries."

None of you have named one fighter who took a fight under these circumstances. You are in fact holding Dempsey to a higher and unfair standard.

I would also argue that the author of that article has used some literary flare to make the story more dramatic, and not so much in Dempsey's exact words.

It also stated that he would fight two White guys, but didn't agree to fight a colored "boy." I think that says what it was all about clearly, don't you?

I don't know of any other fighter who said he would fight any two men in the house on the spot, but not a specific one. That's my point.

[travestyny]

Glad you mentioned that, but it's still indicative of Johnson cherry picking and refusing to give Langford, McVey and Jeannette legitimate title shots when he was perfectly willing to cross the color line for a lesser fighter. As I quoted in the other post, he admitted he was drawing the color line.

You completely ignored my post about the supposed color-line, as per usual.


If you feel he should have fought Langford for $1000, then you know less about boxing than I thought.

[Willie Pep 229]

It also stated that he would fight two White guys, but didn't agree to fight a colored "boy." I think that says what it was all about clearly, don't you?

I don't know of any other fighter who said he would fight any two men in the house on the spot, but not a specific one. That's my point.

Same old out of context quotes.

History by quotes is lazy crappy history.

And before you waste my time with yet another redundant question - context: Dempsey didn't fight color 'boys.' So when he said that he would fight any two men he never meant a Negro. Get over already.

Whites didn't call black men, men, they called them boys.

It was 100 years ago and we have no clue what it felt like to live under that kind of segregation pressure, black or white.

You constantly try to bring in today's morals and ethics when they don't apply.

[GhostofDempsey]

Signing to defend against Langford,McVey, and Jeannette shows that he was perfectly willing to fight any boxer regardless of his colour ,just as long as he got his price of $30,000.And despite repeated requests from me you haven;t produced a single piece of proof that a promoter anywhere in the world was willing to give him that amount! Johnson signed to fight Moran for $35,000 and a % of the film rights.He got $ 31,500 and a % of the film rights for defending against Flynn Why on earth would he fight any of the black trio for peanuts?

Signing is NOT the same as fighting. Dempsey signed three contracts to fight Wills, and Wills people failed to meet his terms, they never fought. People still accuse Dempsey of ducking Wills but those same people give Johnson a pass with excuses. Jack priced himself out of reach when he wanted to avoid someone and moved the goal posts if they even got close to his demands.