Why is Jack Johnson rated so high...

[ShoulderRoll]

History by quotes is lazy crappy history.

More like it's history with sources provided to back up what is being claimed.

As opposed to history told with spin and no supporting evidence.

[GhostofDempsey]

It also stated that he would fight two White guys, but didn't agree to fight a colored "boy." I think that says what it was all about clearly, don't you?

I don't know of any other fighter who said he would fight any two men in the house on the spot, but not a specific one. That's my point.

Boy was accepted vernacular back then, you can’t compare to today’s standards. Besides, we don’t know if he truly said boy because Kennedy is using a lot of flowery language in his article that Dempsey didn’t say in his own words. Do you have this on audio or video someplace?

Dempsey never announced to the house or the public that he would fight any two men in the house. But you conveniently hold your double standard when it comes to Dempsey.

[GhostofDempsey]

You completely ignored my post about the supposed color-line, as per usual.


If you feel he should have fought Langford for $1000, then you know less about boxing than I thought.

He fought Jim Johnson for that money. Therein lies the duck and the hypocrisy. He also demanded $5k side bets from black fighters who challenged him. Do you know what $5,000 in 1913 is today? About $145,000. None of these fighters had that sort of money and nor would they risk losing a shady decision to Johnson and ultimately the bet money and their purse. Jack knew that and he leveraged that against Langford, Jeannette and McVey, as well as other black challengers.

If Jack valued money so highly, why didn’t he fight more often?

[ShoulderRoll]

This is ignorant. He did not duck Jeannette. As I've said before, there is not one fighter then or today who is going to fall for that publicity stunt. Your hero Mayweather certainly wouldn't allow another opponent to enter the ring and fight him. Best ever doe!

Dempsey found a reason to not fight any dangerous black fighter. That's all I'm saying.

Not sure what Floyd has to do with this, he never ducked anyone.

[QueensburyRules]

Dempsey found a reason to not fight any dangerous black fighter. That's all I'm saying.

Not sure what Floyd has to do with this, he never ducked anyone.

- - Pshawww. l'l floydy ducked his manhood. I seen that boy done go running to his daddy squallin' in the middle of a boxing match.

Never seen that in my lifetime before in or out of the ring. I seen boys go runnin' for mammas, but daddy?

He da cherry on top of sissy

[Ivich]

He fought Jim Johnson for that money. Therein lies the duck and the hypocrisy. He also demanded $5k side bets from black fighters who challenged him. Do you know what $5,000 in 1913 is today? About $145,000. None of these fighters had that sort of money and nor would they risk losing a shady decision to Johnson and ultimately the bet money and their purse. Jack knew that and he leveraged that against Langford, Jeannette and McVey, as well as other black challengers.

If Jack valued money so highly, why didn’t he fight more often?

Please produce these side bets?You do know it was common practice for fighters to provide post fight cash bonds as evidence of good faith don't you? Because your statement implies you are unaware of this. Do you think Johnson ever had the equivalent of $145,000 to beat with?lol
He fought Jim Johnson without any guarantee an unusual occurrence for him . It was a poor turnout and the receipts were meagre. Given that Langford and Jeannette faced each other for the French Federation's version of the title the next night,I'd say most fight fans opted to pay for the Langford v Jeannette bout wouldn't you?I certainly would have.
Given Johnson's unpopularity with the white public and the authorities,2hy would you suppose he would be the beneficiary of shady decision's? Do you mean like the time he was robbed against Marvin Hart but in reverse?LOL

Johnson was making $ 1,200 a night on the stage at the Folies Bergeres in La Revue Chemise in August 1913 does that answer your question why he didn't fight more?Source New York Age August17th 1913


What other sources of income other than boxing did Jeannette,Langford ,and McVey have to supplement their earnings?

[Ivich]

Dempsey found a reason to not fight any dangerous black fighter. That's all I'm saying.

Not sure what Floyd has to do with this, he never ducked anyone.

Apart from Wills which other black fighters during Dempsey's title reign would have been considered leading contenders and worthy of a title shot?

[Ivich]

You completely ignored my post about the supposed color-line, as per usual.


If you feel he should have fought Langford for $1000, then you know less about boxing than I thought.

He doesn't know less than I thought about boxing! He thinks Johnson avoided Kid Cotton!lol

[travestyny]

Same old out of context quotes.

History by quotes is lazy crappy history.

And before you waste my time with yet another redundant question - context: Dempsey didn't fight color 'boys.' So when he said that he would fight any two men he never meant a Negro. Get over already.

Whites didn't call black men, men, they called them boys.

It was 100 years ago and we have no clue what it felt like to live under that kind of segregation pressure, black or white.

You constantly try to bring in today's morals and ethics when they don't apply.

I don't know what you are talking about. Did I make a big deal about him using the word, "boy," or are you? I know I didn't, so what is the point of your message?


By the way, something I find funny. I remember you being on record saying that the reason he declined Jeannette was not because he was "colored." But now you seem to be on board with that being the reason. Funny how things change, huh?

[travestyny]

He fought Jim Johnson for that money. Therein lies the duck and the hypocrisy. He also demanded $5k side bets from black fighters who challenged him. Do you know what $5,000 in 1913 is today? About $145,000. None of these fighters had that sort of money and nor would they risk losing a shady decision to Johnson and ultimately the bet money and their purse. Jack knew that and he leveraged that against Langford, Jeannette and McVey, as well as other black challengers.

If Jack valued money so highly, why didn’t he fight more often?

Yes, he fought Jim Johnson in a fight that was made very quickly as a money grab. Do you expect that he would fight Langford under the same conditions. Obviously he wouldn't.

I don't know what you mean by side bets. I know that when he negotiated for a bout with Langford in Boston, I believe, they both agreed on the amount that would be brought to the table by both fighters. Langford couldn't raise his side of the money. If Langford agreed to the amount beforehand, you can't blame Johnson for this. They shook hands on it and even took pictures after that meeting.


Ivich answered your other question. You should listen to him. He seems to have a lot of knowledge about these issues. We don't agree on all matters of opinion, but we certainly agree on all matters of fact. He's given you tons of facts but you seem to be avoiding them.