Marciano was overrated and not an ATG.

[Mike Tyson Jr.]

Marciano was overrated. If he fought Liston isntead of being a chicken he would have bean beaten to a pulp. He struggled against slow old men like Walcott and a washed up Charles. I reckon most top heavies from each era would have wiped the floor with him. Do u really think he could stand in there with Big Klitchko, Lewis, Holyfied or even Samuel Peter?LOL. Way too easy to hit. He was lucky that Italians loved boxing at the time, it was number one in sports and he had no competition.

Only idiots who have no fight dvd's (i have 1000+ 500vhs) and haven't seen much would rate 'the rock'. The best of his era were old men, and even then he was getting outboxed by the painfully slow Jersey Joe Walcott (equivalent to a journeyman like glen johnson)just by looking at footage one can see he wouldn't stand a chance aginst a Prime Roy Jones, the old Hopkins or even our Clinton Woods! Never mind any genuine heavyweight. He didn't lose coz he didn't fight anybody. Look at all the best, they lost coz they fought the best. He knew he had to retire early or get ko'd by the up and coming fighters! Smart guy but still rubbish.

I've seen every major boxing match that took place in the past 100 years and every Marciano title fight. Walcott was an old slow man and even then he had to hit the man when he was down because he was being outboxed. Marciano is overrated because he was the white hope in a segragated America where they believed they were evolutionarily superior. Marciano never beat anybody decent in their prime and was lucky he was in a dead era. The truth is he was overrated and would lose to many of todays light heavyweights including Calzaghe Hopkins and maybe even Tarver. People who know boxing know he is not a top ten heavyweight. Don't get upset, it is the truth.

LOL some Marciano advocates believe Joe Louis was not totally over the hill when Marciano fought him!!! He was pulled out of retirment and looked more washed up than the shores of Blackpool. Just because Rocky was crap and made a meal out of him and the other old men he fought doesn't mean they were not washed up. Also he did not fight everyone around at his time and retired early to avoid the likes of Sonny liston, Cleveland Williams etc. Even so, it may not be his fault but still exposed his weaknesses. He struggled with Walcott who was average, slow and ever so OLD. It took a dirty shot and there was never to be a rematch in segregated america that needed their hero so bad. He was so easy to hit it was a joke. Completely outboxed for many rouns. Marciano would lose to David Haye in about 2 rounds.

I think he is not even in the top 20 in the heavyweight division of all time. It pisses me off when people think he was in the top 5 or even the best! ROFL. Why does he always pop up on p4p lists? He was absolutely ****!

i agree he
only got extra credit
because of his
previliged skin color


yeah yeah snarfy snarf

[Jim Jeffries]

Which prime ATG did Mike Tyson dominate to become great? How about Lennox Lewis? Or your favorite Vitali Klitschko? Which prime ATG did Jack Johnson dominate? How about Jack Dempsey? Sonny Liston? Larry Holmes?
The truth is it's RARE for 2 ATGs to be in the Heavyweight division at the same time.

Poet

Exactly and if two ATGs fight each other in a close fight, would that mean neither are really ATGs?

*****'s medical records were released,liar. But you must have missed that reading the Karl Rove times and drinking the Sean Hannity Kool aid. You lie just as much as either one.. To answer your question, no I'm not a black Panther. But reading your post leaves me little doubt that your IQ level is no higher than those two young, dumb, would be assailant, wannbe ****'s who wanted to take out *****. Your boxing opinion's are just as bad. Anybody can pull up all of your post and see I'm not lying. After this election, if you don't kill yourself first, you will have nothing else to lie about anymore and can sit at home watching re runs of Sean Hannity and Pat Buchanan. Maybe Joe the plumber will join you over a six pack. Good riddance.

The ***** campaign has stated that no medical records will be released. Instead, a one-page undated letter from a doctor will have to satisfy reporters on that issue.

http://www.bloggernews.net/118191

The letter contained relatively few details but noted that ***** has a family history of cancer – his mother died of ovarian cancer and a grandfather of prostate cancer.

http://articles.latimes.com/2008/may...ion/na-*****30

Keep this stuff in the Thunderdome. Thanks for the nasty PM, my mom had a good laugh about it.

I base my post on facts about the fighter, history, or things that I have read and form an opinion. You can't find anything in any of my post that suggest otherwise. You base your post on race first and I can find plenty of your previous post that reveal your ignorance. Just say the word and I'll copy and post it. BTW, I've always considered Marciano a top five all time heavyweight. Jim jeffries? No way. He had only 20 pro fights and his biggest wins were over much smaller men. Since you are one of the worst posters on this board, Glass Joe would have been a better screen name for you.

Jim Jeffries had 9 fights with Hall of Famers, in which he was 7-1-1. The lone loss coming after a 6 year layoff without even a tuneup fight, that he still managed to go 15 rounds. Which big wins did Jack Johnson have that weren't over much smaller men or corpses? I'll wait.

[JAB5239]

[QUOTE=Benny Leonard;4280949]

I was pointing to the difference when he was the "White" title holder vs. prior: his toughest fights were prior.

For the O'Brien fight. I've read different accounts of this a while back. First, I've always thought of it as an exhibition...it was 6 rounds. Johnson's a fighter that takes his time in a fight, toys with them, wears them down, and then when he is ready, takes them apart.
And some of the accounts I read were that Jack controlled the fight, but since O'Brien didn't get his ass kicked and put on a good show, it was enough to have people give him credit because he was smaller.

I'm not sure about Marvin Hart to be honest. I'll have to do a bit of reading when I get the time. So Johnson lost the fight: how did it go?

Was this prior to winning the title or after; what stage of his career?

For Joe Choynski: Like I said, this was before Johnson learned from Joe so he wasn't at his peak either. He would become a student of the game afterwards. Johnson was KFTO. Johnson also said according to one article I read, that the fighter who hit him the hardest, was Joe. Joe was said to have been a briliant all around boxer. Jeffries also credited Joe with hitting him the hardest as well as giving him the toughest test. Little Joe and big Jeffries battled it out in a grueling tough fight. Now that would have been something to have seen. I think the fight was a draw. Do you know off the top of your head?
And you didn't have to be black to be avoided, I heard Joe was avoided as well; no rematch.

He fought both White and Black fighters prior to beating Burns and was in some tough fights...tougher than what he would face during his reign as HW Champion until he got old and fat and lost to Jess.

There was also the weight issue with Johnson. There were times when he was under-nourished for fights and fought...prior to winning the title.

I know Langford on many occassions tried to get another fight with Johnson when he held the title, but didn't get it.
I think Sam McVey tried to get a fight with Johnson as well and Johnson stayed away from him. Sam was young when he fought Johnson as well; 18 and 19 I think.

I know the Black fighters campaigned for a title shot against Johnson and didn't get it.

It's a Knock against Johnson.

My bad. I thought you were insinuating that his colored comp was better overall. Some of them very well may have been. But they were even better better after Johnson won the title and were still refused their shot. I think you and I are on the same page, I just misinterpeted the last post I responded to.

[JAB5239]

[QUOTE]

I said imagine, but base it on what he actually did. No surprise you have no imagination and are against using it. That is the method used to compare to others and determine if he is an ATG or not. Why don't you lot offer some better EXCUSES than trying to overrate the old washed up men.

So....you use your imagination to compare him against others to determine if he's worthy of all time great status? Just friggin BRILLIANT!!!!!

I'll tell you what Corky, you stick to that short bus, bib needing, crash helmet wearing way of looking at things. I'll stick with the facts.

[JAB5239]

Which prime ATG did Mike Tyson dominate to become great? How about Lennox Lewis? Or your favorite Vitali Klitschko? Which prime ATG did Jack Johnson dominate? How about Jack Dempsey? Sonny Liston? Larry Holmes?
The truth is it's RARE for 2 ATGs to be in the Heavyweight division at the same time.

Poet

He isn't capable of understanding logic, Poet.

[JAB5239]

i agree he
only got extra credit
because of his
previliged skin color


yeah yeah snarfy snarf

Bold statement. Care to provide any proof, or are you just flapping your gums?

[Kid McCoy]

Jim Jeffries had 9 fights with Hall of Famers, in which he was 7-1-1. The lone loss coming after a 6 year layoff without even a tuneup fight, that he still managed to go 15 rounds. Which big wins did Jack Johnson have that weren't over much smaller men or corpses? I'll wait.

You don't count beating decrepit old Peter Jackson as a Hall of Fame fight, do you?

Jeff''s big wins were also over men he had substantial size and youth advantages over.

[Mike Tyson Jr.]

Bold statement. Care to provide any proof, or are you just flapping your gums?

look at history
Sloppiano got a standing
eight count against Archie
Moore when it wasnt allowed in
the fight. Moore knocked him down
and Sloppiano got a eight count to
recover when it was not allowed in
the rules of the fight. Moore was
about to ko him. He was allowed to
recover, Sloppiano cheated.


yeah yeah snarfy snarf

[joseph5620]

Exactly and if two ATGs fight each other in a close fight, would that mean neither are really ATGs?




Keep this stuff in the Thunderdome. Thanks for the nasty PM, my mom had a good laugh about it.

You're quite welcome. I'll have to send you more. Thanks for the" nasty" racist public message,the racist private PM's, and the Red K you've been sending me. Don't throw stones if you live in glass house. Tell your mom hello and the offer still stands. Your boxing opinion on Jeffries is still a joke and thanks for letting us know that you still live with your Mom at 40 years of age. ***** won. Now take your prozac and go to sleep. Here is a response to the outdated lie you are telling about *****'s medical records

WASHINGTON--Likely ********ic nominee Sen. Barack ***** (D-Ill.) is in "excellent health," according to a summary of ***** medical records released on Thursday. The 276-word summary was written by Dr. David L. Scheiner, the Chicago doctor who has been *****'s personal physician since March, 1987. ***** has not had a check-up in more than a year. Scheiner described ***** as "lean and muscular with no excess body fat." ***** is still using Nicorette gum to stay off cigarettes--he has quit smoking several times, his doctor notes.

HIghlights:
*Triglycerides of 44(normal under 150), cholesterol 173 (normal under 200), HDL 68 (normal over 40), and LDL 96 (normal under 130). Chem 24, urinalysis and CBC were normal, PSA was 0.6, very good. An EKG was normal.


im Jeffries had 9 fights with Hall of Famers, in which he was 7-1-1. The lone loss coming after a 6 year layoff without even a tuneup fight, that he still managed to go 15 rounds. Which big wins did Jack Johnson have that weren't over much smaller men or corpses? I'll wait.

The debate was Jeffries, not Johnson. I've critisized Johnson's opponents in the past as well. The difference is that Jeffries held the title for 4 years(20 fights). Johnson for 7. Jeffies said even at his best he could not have beaten Johnson. Kills you doesn't it?

[joseph5620]

You don't count beating decrepit old Peter Jackson as a Hall of Fame fight, do you?

Jeff''s big wins were also over men he had substantial size and youth advantages over.

He does. That's what I've been arguing about with him. He claims I'm a "racist" for pointing that out LOL