Marciano was overrated and not an ATG.

[StarshipTrooper]

He's not on the level of say, an Ali or Joe Louis, but no one ever said he was.

Some HAVE said that in this thread.

Poet

[StarshipTrooper]

Here's the "spin" out of San Francisco (the fight's location) as per the San Francisco Call, Mar 23rd, 1898, and some of the things they wrote in their writeup;

"Poor old Pete was put to rest by Jeffries, the powerful young heavyweight from Southern California, shortly after commencement of the third round."

"It was virtually a walkover for Jeffries, who found little or no difficulty in hitting Jackson when and where he pleased. The colored man was physically unable to resist attack or give punishment."

"The Olympic Club did not act wisely--that is, according to the opinions of the best judges of pugilism and pugilists--when it matched Jackson against a man who handicapped him in every particular excepting possibly in science."

"It is a well known fact that Jackson was a physical and financial wreck when he arrived in this city from England and during the past year of his life he was continually in a maudlin state, the result of his love for strong liquer."

"But the Olympic Club did not take into consideration when it matched Jackson to fight Jeffries that it was possibly taking a life in its hands."

"The directors must have looked at the match from a pecuniary point of view, otherwise they, as supposed judges of athletic form, would certainly have informed Jackson when he asked a fight that the club could not risk its reputation by matching a big and powerful man like Jeffries against an opponent who had wrecked by dissipation a consitution which had been several years ago physically sound."

"The club can in a measure congratulate itself that Jeffries did not kil Jackson with a punch."

Etc., etc., etc...Including them being very, very critical of the doctor who passed Jackson through and calling him "sadly wanting" in ways of judging a man's physical condition, and even questioned if the doctor (a Dr. Parent) had bothered to conduct an examination of Jackson at all.

All through the whole report on the fight, the underlining theme was almost entirely focused Jackson's inept physical conditioning and voicing their criticism on how the boxing club should not have allowed Jackson to go through with the fight...Jeffries getting credit, even a little bit, is really no where to be found, besides them stating that he won a fight and did what he was supposed to do against against an opponent that had no business being in the ring with him even if he had only a limited number of fights at that point. Wait, they did give Jeffries a little credit, I guess, but only because he appeared to have let up on Jackson and show mercy once he saw Jackson stood absolutely no chance to win the fight.

Well! I certainly think that answers THAT question.

Poet

[StarshipTrooper]

If I remember correctly Johnson wanted to train or help train Louis only to be rebuffed. After that he started throwing Joe "under the train" so to speak and telling anyone who would listen that Joe could have never beaten him in his prime.

As far as the Langord thing goes.....I can't say for sure why the fight never happened. My own feeling are that he was scared to lose his title to another black man who was much improved and bigger since their first meeting. Of course I have no proof of that, its just an assumption based on the things I've read.

I do know that Langford challenged Johnson on many occasions including face to face in a Boston tavern. When Johnson again refused sam challenged him to a fight in the basement at which time Johnson pulled out his pistol. That information I took from the book "Unforgivable blackness". If you get a chance, read it. Its long, but very detailed and a pretty good read.

Johnson was the first to spot Louis' habit of dropping his left after throwing the jab leaving him open for the counter right. When Louis' camp rebuffed Johnson Jack dropped the dime to the Schmeling camp and told them what to look for in the films. Young fighters have bad habits that they haven't outgrown yet: That's the difference between being a "young" fighter and a "prime" fighter. Time and experience teach a fighter to lose them or lose their health, Louis happend to learn HIS lessons in a big fight with a name opponent.

Poet

[The Jackal]

Johnson was the first to spot Louis' habit of dropping his left after throwing the jab leaving him open for the counter right. When Louis' camp rebuffed Johnson Jack dropped the dime to the Schmeling camp and told them what to look for in the films. Young fighters have bad habits that they haven't outgrown yet: That's the difference between being a "young" fighter and a "prime" fighter. Time and experience teach a fighter to lose them or lose their health, Louis happend to learn HIS lessons in a big fight with a name opponent.

Poet

I heard that too how could such a flaw be in a big name fighter but if ever the student Schmeling knew what would happen & countered with rights all night there may be a lot of excuses for Louis being beaten but simple fact is Schmeling showed the sweet science for what it is let your opponent make a mistake then counter

[joseph5620]

[QUOTE=Jim Jeffries;4277783]Hey genius, I'm not sure what ***** has to do with this thread, but since you brought him up. I never doubted *****'s ability to graduate with anything, what I questioned is why all of his school papers, his thesis, records, everything, is so secretly guarded. Hell even his medical records are a mystery, he only released a single page. Everything surrounding this clown and his shady past have been kept from the public. BTW are you one of those Black Panthers that have been keeping whites away from the voting booths? Just curious.

*****'s medical records were released,liar. But you must have missed that reading the Karl Rove times and drinking the Sean Hannity Kool aid. You lie just as much as either one.. To answer your question, no I'm not a black Panther. But reading your post leaves me little doubt that your IQ level is no higher than those two young, dumb, would be assailant, wannbe ****'s who wanted to take out *****. Your boxing opinion's are just as bad. Anybody can pull up all of your post and see I'm not lying. After this election, if you don't kill yourself first, you will have nothing else to lie about anymore and can sit at home watching re runs of Sean Hannity and Pat Buchanan. Maybe Joe the plumber will join you over a six pack. Good riddance.

[joseph5620]

As for Jackson, he was still a pretty good test for a guy with 7 fights, no matter how you spin it. Why am I not surprised to see you in another thread, doing your best to discredit another great white fighter? You must be the most blissful person on earth (you know with ignorance being bliss and all.)


I base my post on facts about the fighter, history, or things that I have read and form an opinion. You can't find anything in any of my post that suggest otherwise. You base your post on race first and I can find plenty of your previous post that reveal your ignorance. Just say the word and I'll copy and post it. BTW, I've always considered Marciano a top five all time heavyweight. Jim jeffries? No way. He had only 20 pro fights and his biggest wins were over much smaller men. Since you are one of the worst posters on this board, Glass Joe would have been a better screen name for you.

[TheGreatA]

I heard that too how could such a flaw be in a big name fighter but if ever the student Schmeling knew what would happen & countered with rights all night there may be a lot of excuses for Louis being beaten but simple fact is Schmeling showed the sweet science for what it is let your opponent make a mistake then counter

I think Max Schmeling's performance in the first fight against Joe Louis was just as great as Louis' performance was against Schmeling in the rematch.

Schmeling looked brilliant that night, and should've gotten the shot at Braddock before Louis but it's understandable why he didn't.

He would've been the first man to ever regain the heavyweight title in my opinion.

Jack Johnson knew everything about boxing and could've been a good advisor for Louis but again, it's understandable why Blackburn and others did not want anything to do with him.

[JulioCesaChavez]

Marciano got outboxed by Walcott for several rouns, and he was an old man. Imagine what a prime natural heavy would do to him. I think Klitchko would beat 'The Rock'. He is as overrated as you can get.

[JAB5239]

I think Max Schmeling's performance in the first fight against Joe Louis was just as great as Louis' performance was against Schmeling in the rematch.

Schmeling looked brilliant that night, and should've gotten the shot at Braddock before Louis but it's understandable why he didn't.

He would've been the first man to ever regain the heavyweight title in my opinion.

Jack Johnson knew everything about boxing and could've been a good advisor for Louis but again, it's understandable why Blackburn and others did not want anything to do with him.

Nice post Manchine. Im of the opinion that Schmeling is one of the all time underrated fighters. He was an excellent boxer with a great right hand. I get caught between amusement and annoyance when people try to discredit Louis for his loss to Max at only 22 years old. Had he had the shot a Braddock before Louis I also think he would have been the first man to regain the heavyweight title.

[JAB5239]

Marciano got outboxed by Walcott for several rouns, and he was an old man. Imagine what a prime natural heavy would do to him. I think Klitchko would beat 'The Rock'. He is as overrated as you can get.

All I see above my post is "blah, blah, blah. Blah blah blah. Blah blah, blah." Get some new materail. That crap has already been shredded to death. Love the use of the word "imagine". Freakin hysterical that anybody would possibly try ranking a fighter with their imagination! Ya dope.