Mike Tyson vs Rocky Marciano

[Hawkins]

you have no proof of anything you just said, just a solid Bias.

Marciano hitting harder than Mike is very, very unlikely, even watching his fights against guys his size his punches don't impact any where near the same kind of power. I have no idea where you came to the assumption that Marciano hit harder than Mike.

You guys know that Marciano had arguably the hardest right hand in the division's history right? And you're also aware that he had a left with good power too? The way you guys talk it's as if Marciano's power is nowhere comparable and that's just wrong. Marciano had more than enough power to put Mike on his butt

Mike's era wasn't the best, but Marciano's was far worse. I have a strong feeling Lewis Dodged Tyson during their younger years after realizing what he was like in the sparring ring a few years before. Lewis stated himself in an interview Tyson was nothing compared to his former Glory, but it was still a bench mark for him.

Marciano's era was jam packed full of bum's more so than Tyson, Tyson fought bigger names than Marciano.

Archie Moore, Joe Louis, Joe Walcott & Ezzard Charles are bums? Hmm..first I've heard of this.

you say Holmes was pushing 40, well Ali was pushing 40 when he fought Foreman, and he beat him.

Ali was 31 or 32. Not pushing 40.

[them_apples]

Ali was 31 or 32. Not pushing 40.

Oh yea he was 32..my bad

but he had Parkinson's! (alright I'm just desperate now, but it's another factor you should consider)

Archie Moore, Joe Louis, Joe Walcott & Ezzard Charles are bums? Hmm..first I've heard of this.

Never said they were bum's

Archie Moore, Joe Louis and Joe Walcott where all "Older" fighter's.

You guys know that Marciano had arguably the hardest right hand in the division's history right? And you're also aware that he had a left with good power too? The way you guys talk it's as if Marciano's power is nowhere comparable and that's just wrong. Marciano had more than enough power to put Mike on his butt

Marciano had power for his time, but I highly doubt he had the power, especially using todays gloves, to seriously Hurt Tyson.

Tyson weighs 220, his neck is near 20 inches, he's trained by the late cus d' amato, who boasts he was the best fighter he has ever trained. A living example is the large amount of first round KO's Tyson scored on guys bigger than him. So in all honesty, how is a smaller, technically inferior and slower fighter going to have a chance.

[Hawkins]

Not to back away from a debate, I'm just going to bow out of the whole Marciano/Tyson debate because it has become redundant and is taking it up way too much space. By now everyone knows my standpoint, and I theirs, so thats where I leave it.

-Hawk

[ROSS CALIFORNIA]

Well, there's no doubt Tyson would have been too much for Rocky. Too much speed, too much power, and too much technical skill. It's hard for me to see that little guy coming strait forward in Tysons face and making it out of the first round alive. LOL I think comparing Marciano to Dempsy might be more even.

[them_apples]

Well, there's no doubt Tyson would have been too much for Rocky. Too much speed, too much power, and too much technical skill. It's hard for me to see that little guy coming strait forward in Tysons face and making it out of the first round alive. LOL I think comparing Marciano to Dempsy might be more even.

A realistic statement for once, that would be a way better match up, Dempsey vs Marciano.

[hemichromis]

you have no proof of anything you just said, just a solid Bias.

Marciano hitting harder than Mike is very, very unlikely, even watching his fights against guys his size his punches don't impact any where near the same kind of power. I have no idea where you came to the assumption that Marciano hit harder than Mike.

Mike's era wasn't the best, but Marciano's was far worse. I have a strong feeling Lewis Dodged Tyson during their younger years after realizing what he was like in the sparring ring a few years before. Lewis stated himself in an interview Tyson was nothing compared to his former Glory, but it was still a bench mark for him.

Marciano's era was jam packed full of bum's more so than Tyson, Tyson fought bigger names than Marciano.

Yes Seldon ******, I should not have used him as an example.

But Spinks, Bruno, Tucker, Ruddock and Holmes are all notable tough fighter's

you say Holmes was pushing 40, well Ali was pushing 40 when he fought Foreman, and he beat him.

@ Hawkins, I must agree you have been a good sport with the Tyson fans.

its not a bias at all i've watched every single tyson fight and about 15 marciano fights and thats the conclusion i came up with.

tyson didn;t fight bigger names he simply fought more recent ones that people recognise. do you think people will recognise the name tucker in 50 years?

holmes was well past his prime whereas ali was only just starting to fade. this happens differently to different people.
ali didn;t bat foreman with his atheletism he beat him with his will power and ringe intelligence.

ishould say i actually prefer tyson and i beleive he would win this match up

[hemichromis]

Not to back away from a debate, I'm just going to bow out of the whole Marciano/Tyson debate because it has become redundant and is taking it up way too much space. By now everyone knows my standpoint, and I theirs, so thats where I leave it.

-Hawk

it certainly is starting to get boring!!

[metalinmybrain]

Well I'm going to respond, but afterward I'm done with all the Marciano/Tyson stuff.

Lets look at their styles first - Mike Tyson. He's a straight ahead swarming puncher, with good handspeed, who has good defense via the constant head movement and bobbing and weaving. He comes at you and waits for his openings and unleashes powerful combinations but at the same time is hard to hit because of his defense. Also has a good chin and can take a hard punch. Has trouble with fighters who show no fear, and take the fight to him. Especially fighters with an excellent jab and decent movement. Known to get frustrated after the early rounds, get away from the aforementionedand revert to head hunting.

Would everyone agree with this assesment?

Marciano - also a swarmer and bruiser who only moves forward. Has a very deceptive defense where as he is always moving, bending and bobbing and ducking. He comes at you and throws powerful punches relentlessly, opening or not, hitting you anywhere and everywhere. Tireless and gets stronger as the bout goes on. Good chin and can take a hard punch. Has trouble with slick boxers and technicians, and guys who can stay on the outside and stick and move with good fundamental skills.

Would everyone agree with this assesment?


Going from these assesments it wouldn't be easy for either man. I think this wouldn't be a difficult match up for both sides. I think the chin of either man somewhat negates the power of the other one.

Tyson would come out and find someone who wouldn't back up or give him an inch and stay on top of him, and also someone who is deceptively hard to hit with a clean punch. Marciano would also find someone who comes at him, who uses good defensive head and body movement thus making him hard to hit cleanly, and someone who uses crisp and fast punches in combination.

I think it would play out in one of two ways. First scenario. Tyson comes out and engages in an all out slug fest with Marciano. His punches finding their mark and bloodying Rocky. Marciano trying to counter-attack but not effectively being able to so. I could see Tyson stopping Marciano early (within the first 3 rounds) on cuts or possibly ref stoppage. I don't think he outright knocks Marciano cold, but a ref stoppage or doctor stoppage would be entirely possible.

Second, Marciano weathers the early storm and takes Tyson in the later rounds. Because of Tyson's frustration at not taking him out early he gets sloppy, becomes a headhunter and starts getting tagged with Marciano's relentless onslaught and is worn down. It's entirely possible that Tyson loses by decision or is stopped by TKO or KO in the late rounds. Unlike Marciano we have seen Tyson wilt under a constant offensive onslaught against him and get KO'd so it's a plausible outcome.

Regardless, it would be a war and something to see.

-Hawk

I think your complete assessment of Tyson in the end is that of a post prison Tyson and a typical thought at that. Tyson went to the body the complete fight, with Tucker Tillis Smith etc, he relentlessly attacked the body, then came up to the head. All of these man took Tyson the distance because of one thing! They tried to throw him off his game by clinching. All of these man stood inches taller than Tyson with much longer reaches, not to mention their natural size. Marciano would have been in way over his head to step into the ring with most of these guys of Tyson's era. Tyson was a bigger stronger version of Marciano, and this saying of Marciano's side to side head movement is another complete bogus attempt to further state your argument on fictional thoughts, Marciano had no damn head movement. He stayed in a low crouch with his head leaned to the side. Tyson was a crouch with his head standing above his legs with a side to side head movement plus he always engaged thus giving him the opportunities to counter without getting hit! Marciano always got hit, mainly due to the fact that he never fought a suitable heavyweight, (excluding a very ****ing old Joe Louis, who might I add wasn't even fighting for the soul purpose of what he passionately fights for, honor and respect. Louis was screwed by the Army what would you expect him to do) Marciano never fought a legit heavyweight contender, or at least someone who posed a real threat. LaStarza? Come on give me a ****ing break people!!!! How much did that guy weight? 180something?!! Anyway besides the point, Marciano never looked good at 220 and that is what he would need to compete against a fighter like Tyson. Marciano wouldn't be playing that let me lay on your chest **** with Tyson. He wouldn't even get that close for that matter, Tyson would be too much of a physical specimen for Marciano. Your foolish to think that every fighter who applied pressure on Mike and didn't want to back up beat him, Reggie Gross who opened up on Tyson got smashed with one punch, Mike came out of a weave with a vicious left hook that sent Gross to the canvas. In all honesty, I think amongst a short list of fighters that would defeat Marciano through out history Tyson would have been first on that list. I'm just saying that, you don't get first round knockouts for being a slow starter. Tyson finished all of his opponents in the first round, because most of them tried to light up on him, run. If you weren't trying to box Tyson in a smart manner than you aren't beating him or at least going the distance. Marciano had no boxing skill, rather a brawler puncher who relied on his relentless attack and later round beatings to get by. Marciano isn't a fast starter and was never given the pressure early in a fight like Tyson would give him, so how are you to know how Marciano would react? He has never been pushed back to fight, and if he was he was leaning on your chest taking slow steps backwards, that is how Marciano fought. Tyson was a real relentless fighter, a fighter who would stalk and press constantly with combinations and a defense that will get you to think you can't hit the guy no matter how hard you tried. I think for one Tyson would be too powerful for Marciano to man handle and two Tyson's none stop pressure early in the fights along with his combination punching real immaculate puncher, along side his great defense. Rocky will soon realize that damn, the 80's fighters are just too far ahead with the future than we are here in the 50's. Marciano would lose and that is that!

[Hawkins]

I think your complete assessment of Tyson in the end is that of a post prison Tyson and a typical thought at that. Tyson went to the body the complete fight, with Tucker Tillis Smith etc, he relentlessly attacked the body, then came up to the head. All of these man took Tyson the distance because of one thing! They tried to throw him off his game by clinching.

Well I said I'm not going to talk Tyson/Marciano anymore and I'm not. I just need to ask one question...did you even see the Tyson/Tucker fight?

Seriously, in the earlier rounds Tyson was initiating the clinch just as much as Tucker. There was one part in round one where Tyson got caught with a huge uppercut that kind buckled him followed by a right hand straight over the top.

Afer that just about anytime Mike came inside Tucker threw that right hand over the top. Because of this Mike initiated the clinch just as much. For whatever reason after round 4-5, I forget which, Tucker stopped using the right hand like he had been (it is alleged he broke it) and clinched to survive.

He lost the fight, but Tucker had alot of early success against Tyson. If I wanted to beat Tyson that is the strategy I would use but I would also add a stiff jab to the mix.

[metalinmybrain]

You guys know that Marciano had arguably the hardest right hand in the division's history right? And you're also aware that he had a left with good power too? The way you guys talk it's as if Marciano's power is nowhere comparable and that's just wrong. Marciano had more than enough power to put Mike on his butt



Archie Moore, Joe Louis, Joe Walcott & Ezzard Charles are bums? Hmm..first I've heard of this.




Ali was 31 or 32. Not pushing 40.

Arguably the best right in the history and the percentage is about 1% of the population leaning on that argument. Give me a break buddy!