Best Defensive Fighter Ever

[JAB5239]

- -If U like funny haha clown defense, pea U boy.

Pep and early Iron Mike used their formidable offense which is the prime directive to enhance their defense.

If pea had any true defense, he'd fight a peaking JCC, but he didn't because of the Taylor disaster.

Let me tell you something you degenerative *****....no one cares what you think. Argue the claim, not your lame opinion. Nobody wants to hear your lies anymore.

Was there a better defensive fighter who fought greater comp than Whitaker? It's pretty simple. Unlike you, I can deal with it if I'm wrong. But for the love of God....back your ***** up with some facts for a change!

[Rusty Tromboni]

Here's a question. I see all the usual suspects, all who rightfully belong in the conversation. But which fighter proved their defense against the best comp? I think Locche had the best defense, but I think Whitaker proved it against the best fighters.

Just when it seems you can't fall any lower, you prove us wrong.

Whitaker's competition wasn't that impressive. He also fought in an era remarkably welcoming of defensive fighters.


Loughran, Kansas, Wolgast, Corbett 3, Pep, Graham, Archer, Duran, Leonard and Byrd all fought MUCH stiffer competition.

Hell, even guys like Canto, Monroe, and Kalambay probably fought more peak ATGs.

Fury is a Heavyweight. Unlike Pea he can actually continuously move for 12 rounds without huffing and puffing.

[Anthony342]

Here's a question. I see all the usual suspects, all who rightfully belong in the conversation. But which fighter proved their defense against the best comp? I think Locche had the best defense, but I think Whitaker proved it against the best fighters.

You just reminded me of that line Larry Merchant said when Whitaker was getting past his prime about how Pernell could see a truck coming and punch out all the lights then dive out of the way before it could hit him. Sounded like a pretty apt description.

[them_apples]

Pep always takes the nod and for good reason. But I can accept the point being made that Mayweather, Wright and Hopkins are even more defense-first fighters. Or that Locche was actually better at avoiding heafshots than anyone else while remaining planted directly in front of opponents.

Pep didn't like hurting people, but he fought in an era where fighting defensively was evaluated as fighting to survive and would cost a fighter rounds. Also, Pep simply wasn't a b'tch. So he took risks and exchanged punches to rack up points.

I actually think Leonard, not Whitaker, comes closest to Pep in defensive ability. He's not as fluid, clever or constantly moving. But he was the closest we've seen to Pep post war. Also, Ray DID like to brawl. His hero was Frazier. So that compensated when his defensive ability came up short.

The problem comparing pure boxers is that eras change. Young Griffo might have looked a lot like Locche - who knows? Certainly he wasn't doing the Ali shuffle, or running around the ring avoiding his opponent. But you can chart the development of Boxing starting with Corbett, moving to O'Brien, diverting to Gibbons, then back to Philadelphia to Loughran, he passes the torch to Wolgast, Gore replicates that with Pep, then it becomes much more acceptable to win simple by fighting defensively. Clancy and Dundee really push the envelope with guys like Pastrano. But as the talent pool for Boxing dries up, and it's no longer a battle of men, defensive fighting takes a new life. And yes, in recent years you could have guys like Jones, Whitaker and Mayweather, without an ounce of shame, Box, not fight, their way to multi-division titles.

That doesn't mean pure-boxing was always accepted. After Packey McFarland, Billy Graham and Joey Archer are the greatest fighters to never win a championship. You can watch their title fights for yourselves. It's pretty clear, from out perspective, that they won every time they stepped up. But again, our view has been affected by an appreciation for the skill of Boxing, not for the spectacle. And so, you will see fighters like Duran, Lomachenko, Jofre, Napoles, Griffith, early Gomez and Tyson, who actually BLEND their defense into their offense to tremendous effect. And I think a special appreciation should be had for those fighters.

Tyson Fury has to be counted among the best defensive fighters of all time, too. But which direction he chooses to go in will be interesting to see.

you are right about Leonard, when we are talking about defense its about who doesn't get hit, not who was the best counter puncher or who can set you up better. Leonard simply used his legs better than Whitaker and therefore rarely got hit. He proved this against some of the best competition in boxing. Even Hearns barely hit him when you consider it was 14 rounds and Hearns is an ATG WW.

[QueensburyRules]

You just reminded me of that line Larry Merchant said when Whitaker was getting past his prime about how Pernell could see a truck coming and punch out all the lights then dive out of the way before it could hit him. Sounded like a pretty apt description.

- -Wasn't Pea run over by a truck or car while walking on the side of the road?

R.I.P.

Something to consider in U commentary.

[Rick Taylor]

Just when it seems you can't fall any lower, you prove us wrong.

Whitaker's competition wasn't that impressive. He also fought in an era remarkably welcoming of defensive fighters.


Loughran, Kansas, Wolgast, Corbett 3, Pep, Graham, Archer, Duran, Leonard and Byrd all fought MUCH stiffer competition.

Hell, even guys like Canto, Monroe, and Kalambay probably fought more peak ATGs.

Fury is a Heavyweight. Unlike Pea he can actually continuously move for 12 rounds without huffing and puffing.

solid post. you have to remember its the americans that tend to rate this spoiler so highly.

lost to de la hoya and took a savage beating from trinidad.
whitaker was a quitter to if im not mistaken.

- -Wasn't Pea run over by a truck or car while walking on the side of the road?

😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

[joseph5620]

you are right about Leonard, when we are talking about defense its about who doesn't get hit, not who was the best counter puncher or who can set you up better. Leonard simply used his legs better than Whitaker and therefore rarely got hit. He proved this against some of the best competition in boxing. Even Hearns barely hit him when you consider it was 14 rounds and Hearns is an ATG WW.

Barely hit Leonard? Hearns hit Leonard a lot. Enough to close one of Leonard's eyes. I don't know what fight you were watching.

[joseph5620]

Just when it seems you can't fall any lower, you prove us wrong.

Whitaker's competition wasn't that impressive. He also fought in an era remarkably welcoming of defensive fighters.


Loughran, Kansas, Wolgast, Corbett 3, Pep, Graham, Archer, Duran, Leonard and Byrd all fought MUCH stiffer competition.

Hell, even guys like Canto, Monroe, and Kalambay probably fought more peak ATGs.

Fury is a Heavyweight. Unlike Pea he can actually continuously move for 12 rounds without huffing and puffing.

I don't know who lies more. You or Queensbury. Right now it's a toss up. Both of you take this section down a couple notches.

[Rusty Tromboni]

I don't know who lies more. You or Queensbury. Right now it's a toss up. Both of you take this section down a couple notches.

Where did I lie, Princess?

[billeau2]

Once again a good thread is defecated upon

Queenie, Rusty and Rusty#2 alt would not know an example, or proof of a contention if their life depended on it...

Another thread, another day...