phil28

If that was B-Hop's career defining fight...he still went on to beat opponents (one easy HOF'er) for 4 years. Hence the reason comparing the two careers isn't fair to B-Hop. His career is over, except maybe 1 fight left. Calzaghe has just reached his height of his career, and it will be over within a handful of years. He has to get his shit together and be impressive or else you're acting as though Hopkins fights meant nothing post Trinidad. Oscar must be the guy you're talking about (the HOF'er after the Tito fight). Oscar won his first title at super feather, meaning Oscar had come up 5 weight divisions whilst Bhop had sat at 160. Oscar is not a HOF'er for his achievements at middle weight (a disputed points win over Sturm).

YAWN. Again, there's an excuse for everyone he didn't fight, and that leaves him with a list full of weaker names. He has a weak overall resume, didn't unify a major title at 168 (before last weekend), didn't come close to cleaning it out, and didn't change divsions in search of bigger fights. Now, at 33, he has his best career win against a guy with 21 fights. NOT a HoF career at this point any way you look at it. Yes, there's an excuse for everyone he didn't fight. And good ones too, but I guess you're too blinkered to look at it objectively. You don't like the guy, fair enough. But be objective, it's all I'm asking. As for a Hall of Fame resume, his career isn't over yet and i'm sure I could find at least 20 boxers in the Hall of Fame with less impressive resumes than Calzaghe.

Yeah, I'd love to see Bozo's assesment of RJJ's career if he's going to nitpick and criticize Calzaghe for not fighting Mundine, Green, and Beyer, etc. LOL Let's keep it real, if he had fought and beat all of those guys, then Bozo would have called them "bums" and said they add nothing to his career... because let's face it, the notable names that Calzaghe has beaten at SMW are all more respected and accomplished fighters this little group that he is now being criticized for not fighting. As I said in my original post, Ottke is really the only notable name that is missing from Joe's SMW resume. And Ottke never wanted to fight Joe. This is the problem. He's beaten the best fighters at 168 that would fight him, with the exception of Kessler. I don't think Joe will fight Kessler because he's stated for years that getting down to 168 is killing him, and he wants to become a dual weight world champ. I get the feeling come the end of this guy's career, he'll be a lock for the hall, regardless of Bozo's criticisms. :)

When you look at Calzaghe's sub par resume over the last 8 years or so, you notice that he was at Supper Middleweight the entire time, yet managed to miss encounters Sven Ottke, Eric Lucas, Markus Beyer, Anthony Mundine, Antwun Echols, Mikkel Kessler, & Danny Green. Up until a few years ago, the WBO belt held as much credibility as the NABF or the IBO title. He never unified a major title up until now, at 33 years old. You can try and sugar coat it all you want. Calzaghe is NOT a Hall of Fame fighter right now, and this win over Lacy does not get him a free pass. He has the potential, and always has, but it's not potential that gets you into the hall of fame. It's accomplishment. He still has a shot, but he'd need to pick it up as of now and win some credible fights, and or unify some titles. Of the list you mentioned, I can't believe you've got Ottke, Mundine, Beyer and Green on there. Joe called out Ottke on numerous occasions, but the guy only ever fought in Germany. Calzaghe even said he'd fight the guy in Germany, but Ottke wanted no part of the fight. Mundine? You're kidding right? The guy's a rugby league player. He's never beaten a decent fighter in his career, he held the WBA belt for 2 fights (after Ottke retired) and is one of only 6 guys to ever be knocked out by Ottke. Yeah, great fighter. :rolleyes: Markus Beyer. Jesus, this guy is even worse than Ottke. Struggled against Danny Green in two fights and has looked anything but convincing in a single bout. As soon as this guy leaves Germany, he loses his belt. Danny Green. The only notable scalp on this guy's resume is Lucas. To put that in perspective, Lucas has lost EVERYTIME he has stepped up in class, with losses to Green, Kessler and even Beyer. Antwun Echols' only real achievement at Super middle is coming back from being down 3 times in the 2nd round to stop Brewer in the 3rd. Oh, and he lost to Mundine. Ottke is the only guy you mentioned who Calzaghe had something to gain by beating, and I already said why that fight didn't happen. I think you need to be a bit more objective rather than plucking a list of names out of a hat. ;)

Weak, you know exactly what I mean, and have no response, because you know it was stupid to ever begin to make such a compairison. Maybe? LOL Back to that? What does that one win have to do with this discussion? A lot of people thought Lacy would win. When I voted Lacy is a force, it was relative to him being a prospect, not a pound for pound fighter. I would have voted that Kermit Cintron was looking like a force before the Margarito fight. The 1st thing I did after the Lacy fight was give Joe credit and admit I got the pick wrong. That doesn't change the fact he'd done very little before that, that he's not a lock for the Hall of Fame at this point at all, or that your Jones Calzaghe compairison was stupid. Yes, maybe. Looking through Roy's resume, the best guy he beat was Toney. I'll say it was a fine win, even if Toney did have weight issues leading up to the fight. I see BHop on there, but he was unheard of when Roy fought him. I also see Mike McCallum there, but he was 40 years old when Roy fought him. I'm looking for the other big names on his record, you know, like Mike Nunn, Nigel Benn, DM, etc, etc. Guess what, I may as well look forever because they're not there. As far as this argument goes, I think Mechslave summed it up pretty well above. I guess you're a hard boxing fan to please. Joe's obviously not one of your favourite fighters, but you seem to go out of your way to discredit the guy. The title of the thread is 'is Calzaghe HOF or potential future HOF'. My answer would be potential future HOF. That's my opinion, which in your opinion may be stupid, but I don't care. :p Agree to disagree. :)

I've seen all of them fight, and suggesting Reid would walk through them is a joke. You all keep doing the same thing to try and change the subject. Again, the bottom line is that Calzaghe's resume is sub par, he spent his whole career at Supper Middle and didn't clean it out and didn't unify a title until this weekend. He doesn't compare to Hopkins, and he does not have a strong case for the Hall of Fame right now. It's no joke. And I'm not changing the subject. But you constantly blurt out a list of names that has no bearing whatsoever. Ottke is the only real fight missing from Joe's career at super middle (up until the recent emergence of Kessler) and it widely accepted that Ottke just would not fight Calzaghe. You criticise Calzaghe for never leaving his backyard. He has fought in both Germany and Denmark. Hopkins has never left the USA. You constantly say Hopkins cleaned up his division. Yes he did, congrats Bhop. Had Ottke manned up and fought Calzaghe, Joe would have held 3 of the belts. Your response to this is no doubt, 'it's not Joe's fault the Ottke fight never happened, YAWN'.

Im just looking for some opinions here... Both guys have a laundry list list of medicore defenses and a super fight break thru late in theri careers...sure Nard's was over Tito but Tito was also moving up where as Joe fought a a green Jeff LAcy but it was Lacy's division. What do some of you think about this? Comapre the two. I think their careers are pretty similar Scap, but BHop has bigger names on his resume with Oscar and Tito. They were both fighting way above their natural weight mind. It's all opinion, but I think their careers are similar (although Joe has never lost).

What you guys have to realize is these boards are over populated with white guys who shamelessly blow every accomplishment of the white guys out of proportion then attack every cocky black guy from Ali to Jones'Jr. Of course this guy will never make the hall of fame much like his white brothers the Klitchkos but we have to endure all of the white guy rants until for now. Hmm, so the colour of somebody's skin makes them better than someone else? Whatever dickhead. :rolleyes:

Roy moved up in weight tenfold, and beat better opposition overall. If you want to use Calzaghe's staying at 168 as a positive accomplishment, it should encoumpass him cleaning it out or unifying titles, something he didn't do. The very notion of comparing him or his career to that of Jones' is outright stupid. If Calzahe had moved up and won a title in another division, this ill fated argument you're trying to present now might have a slight shred of credibility. Since he didn't, and remained at 168 fighting sub par opposition, your notion just looks silly. Well, your first sentence is utter bollocks considering there aren't 10 weight divisions above middleweight. As for Roy beating better opposition overall, maybe you're right, but Roy is done and Joe still has a few years left. If looking at an argument objectively is silly, then I guess I'm guilty as charged. The fact that you picked Lacy to dominate Joe, voted Lacy as a force in the super middle division, and have tried to discredit Joe's win ever since the fight shows your agenda here.

I'm just wondering, all this desperation to change the subject, has it made any more of a case for Calzaghe being a Hall of Fame fighter at this point? :rolleyes: Nope, it's just your deluded posts regarding a certain RJJ being 'The Man' at 175 got peoples attention. In other words, you're talking bollocks mate. :)

Please. Darius saw what happened to hill, got back on a plane and never came back. He was then stripped of the major titles he had for not wanting to face the mandated challengers. No one in their right mind regarded him as the better fighter between the two, and his "Ottke" like habbit of sitting in Germany facing Roy's leftovers showed what he was all about. He struggled with Richard Hall, and was soundly beaten by Gonzalez. As I said before, to be the man you have to beat the man. RJJ didn't, never had any intention of fighting him, so your claims that DM was scared to come to the states hold no water. More likely is Roy was scared to go to Germany, even though DM was Polish.

Roy Jones won titles from Middleweight to Havyweight, and his competition TRUMPS Calzaghe's. Come on. That's the weakest thing you've said yet. Calzaghe's resume before Lacey is WEAK. Bottom line. He was at 168 for years, did not win or unify a major title, didn't come close to cleaning it out, and didn't move up in weight to make an important fight. You guys need to get over it. For the 4th time, the guy's talented, and this last weekend was his best win. But unless it's followed up, his career isn't going to be looked back on as being paticularly special. Oh, here we go, the great RJJ debate. Of the titles RJJ won: Middleweight: Won the vacant IBF belt versus BHop, when nobody had heard of Bhop. Super middle: Won the IBF belt from Toney. A good win, but tainted slightly by Toney having to lose 48 pounds in 6 weeks before the fight. Light Heavy: His WBC belt should never have gone to him, it belonged to a guy named Graciano Rocchegianni. His other belts were stripped from the ring champ DM. Paper champ and nothing more at light heavy. Heavy: Beat John Ruiz, a guy tailor made for him to beat. Who was the man at heavy at the time? Lennox. Didn't see RJJ too eager to challenge him. Neither guy has a particularly great resume as far as I'm concerned, but Joe still has time to add to his, whereas Roy should have hung the gloves up years ago.

Darius wanted no part of leaving Germany, or fighting Roy. He was a paper champion, and widely regarded as a joke. Maybe you can explain that bit to me about Darius being a 'paper champion' and 'a joke'. By who exactly? Roy fans. Darius was the linear champ at 175, not Jones. Fact of the matter is that Jones looked flat out ridiculous with his alphabet belts when the real champ only had one (the other belts were wrongfully stripped). As for Darius wanting no part of leaving Germany, he at least travelled to the states to attend a Roy fight, which is a damn sight more than Jones ever did to get the fight on. The real champ at 175 was DM. RJJ was the paper champ. Ever heard the expression 'To be the man, you've got to beat the man'? DM was 'The Man' and RJJ never beat him, case closed.

How about Jeff 'Absolutely nothing but a left hook' Lacy? Anyway, the guy's still a good fighter, it's just that Calzaghe is better. Give the guy a break.

This doesn't even deserve reading. Any notion of compairing Calzaghe career or accomplishments to that of Roy Jones is an absolute joke. Jones beat other Hall of Fame locks, beat 16 current or former title holders, and won titles from 160 to Heavyweight. Calzaghe has stayed in one division, didn't come close to cleaning it out, unified his first major title last weekend, has fought sub par opposition at best, and hasn't moved divisions to seek bigger fights. You are getting outright stupid now. No, I'm being objective, you're not. You say Calzaghe didn't clean out his division. Fair enough, he didn't. Which division did Roy 'clean out'? For the record, RJJ is one of the most talented fighters I've ever seen, but his resume is missing a whole lot of fighters at every weight he fought at.

Again, questioning Jones' legacy, questioning his HoF status, or compairing him to Jones is stupid. Outright stupid. I gave my opinion clearly to begin with, and said several times that Calzaghe's Hall of Fame chances hinge on what he does from here on in, not making excuses for what he did't do before. It sounds like you don't disagree with that. In my opinion, he needs to win a belt at Light Heavy to be sure HOF material. I respect the guy because I'm hearing Tarver's name a lot more than I'm hearing Woods' name, and Tarver is the linear champ at 175. I'm also hearing rumours of an RJJ fight. If he's wanting to establish himself state-side with a tune up fight while Tarver fights BHop, fine. If he says it's a great accomplishment to beat RJJ, then he's wrong in my opinion.

No that was bullshit. 99 out of 100 referee's would of stopped that fight in the second round in favor of Brewer, 99 out of 100 referee's wouldn't of called the stoppage for Echols in round three. I agree on both counts, but at the end of the day the fight went to Echols. It's his best achievement at super middle, and Bozo says Calzaghe should have fought him, so I gave Echols credit for his 'big' win. ;)

It's not Joe's fault the Ottke fight didn't come off, it's not his fault the Jones fight didn't come off, it's not Joe's fault the Hopkins fight didn't come off, it's not his fault the Kessler fight didn't come off, it's not Joe's fault the Beyer fight didn't come off, Green, Mundine, etc etc... Yawn. Hmm, you keep bringing up the same names and it's as annoying as it is false. Beyer, Green and Mundine are not great fighters, nor are they better than the names already on Calzaghe's resume. A prime Reid (it's not stretching to add prime to Reid's name, he's a former WBC champ, knocking out Vicenzo Nardiello in his own backyard) smokes all of them, but it's obvious from your posts that you've seen very few, if any of them fight. As for the Kessler fight not coming off, are you for real? Kessler has only become a genuine contender during the build up to the Lacy fight, but you're criticising Joe for fighting Lacy instead of Kessler. Up until Saturday, Lacy was considered the better fighter.

I am dismayed yet not shocked by some of the posts I've read here today. For months there have been posters stating that Lacy was a class above Calzaghe and that Calzaghe was overated and that he would be stopped early by Lacy! What last night PROVED was that Joe is world class and it was Lacy that was overated. Lacy hardly landed a shot the whole fight and Calzaghe boxed his head off with ease, they looked leagues apart in class. Many of us hard core Calzaghe fans had defended Joe on many occasions and had told of his many skills and qualities but we were dismissed by many as not knowing what we were talking about. Those 'experts' who stood up and mantained that Lacy was going to walk through Joe into further stardom should now stand up now be counted. Calzaghe last night destroyed a supposedly superstar as if he were a novice, any fight outside of this would have been stopped early on as it was humiliating for Lacy. Some have said already today that this proves nothing, Calzaghe still had it to prove, yet yesterday Lacy had nothing to prove, Lacy yesterday was the best super middle for years according to many? Calzaghe just took Lacy apart as if he were nothing so what does he have to prove? If you were wrong be strong enough and admit it instead of always looking for a negative to save face! Be honest Micky, did you expect any different? Some of the people on here (RunWithKnives for example) have been man enough to admit they were wrong.

props to joe cal. he proved me wrong, to a degree. he beat up lacy something awful. but still, 13 years is too long a wait to finally work up the gumption to fight a dangerous opponent. lacy just didnt do a damn thing to win. joe beat him up, beat him down, and removed any doubt that he is the 168 king. but calfaggy still has much to do. like defend his title against another dangerous opponent, fight more often, fight OUTSIDE OF EUROPE, and actually prove hes the champ. no more faking injuries, no more fight dodging, no more fighting stiffs, no more getting slap happy, and for gods sake, go out and FIND a fight instead of wait for one, joe! as for lacy, hes not done. hes still young at 28. everybody loses. joe will, too. but for now, ill give joe his props, admit hes the champ, and move on. but mark my words: JOE WILL GET HIS ONE DAY, HE WILL GET HIS. Considering he just destroyed the best American super middle, and the other champs at super middle are from, guess where, Europe, why the hell does he need to fight outside of Europe?

Is this thread asking about how far Lacy has to go? No, but it was started by a guy who has made Lacy out to be a worldbeater before this fight, based on fighting stiffs in the States. To come out with the statement, 'He needs to fight outside Europe' is unbelievably narrowminded considering all the champs at super middle are from European countries. As for the 'Joe needs to stop fighting stiffs' argument, who, other than Kessler is there for him to fight? Tarver's the man at Light Heavy, but has just signed up to fight B-Hop. Joe Calzaghe is hardly likely to go to Germany to fight Beyer, nor should he be expected to. My suspicion is he'll move up to light heavy and fight Clinton Woods for his IBF belt.

No, your right, but the forum is supposedly about boxing and recognising the qualities of boxing. Lacy always looked a possible great fighter but he had never proved it yet many on here would not listen to that logic, yet they still disregarded the fact the Calzaghe had been an unbeaten champion for almost a decade almost as if it didn't matter, obviously it did, real boxing fans would now admit to that! I have always been a fan of Calzaghe, but his lack of serious competition has always annoyed me (even if it is, as I believe, only partially his fault). Last night was a great performance by him, and it's good to see some people on here finally giving the man some respect. I don't expect everyone here to do that, because I'm convinced most of the people on here are about 13 years old, lol. :D

If Lacy wants a belt again, could he go for Beyer´s, i mean Beyer has a good way of avoiding getting hit, and would Jeff be good enugh in his lack of technique, to get any hope of winning on points in germany. (Remember, Beyer doesn´t get KD often) Didn't Green knock him down 3 times in their two fights? Yoshinori Nishizawi also put him down I believe. Beyer is by far the weakest of the champs at super middle, so it is a potential road back for Lacy.

LOL! Nice to see the boot on the other foot after six months of "Brit fag" ill-informed bullshit. :D Ignorance + arrogance = never a good combination. Do your research next time, boys. That has got to be the funniest sig I've ever seen. Nice one. :D

The skill is there, but as always, the question is the willingness to make big fights. If Calzaghe goes back to fighting stiffs in his back yard, this win is all for not. I think what you need to realise is that Lacy got himself in this position by 'fighting stiffs in his backyard' as you call it.

Again your probably right Phil, I myself was always disapointed in Joe's opponents but I never questioned his ability, a good comparrison would be the Calzaghe - Eubank fight, Joe was in the Lacy type role as the young pretender and Eubank in the Calzaghe role as the established champion, the difference being that Joe won in a classly performance whereas Lacy just capitulated. It is a shame that Joe never did this five years ago but he has had his problems with injury and home life, hopefully he can go to the States and put on a couple of good shows, only then will he get the full credit he deserves! Although before the Lacy fight Marvin Hagler already had Joe as a top six p4p? The only guy around for Joe to fight 5 years ago was some guy named Ottke, and I think we all know the reasons that the fight never happened. If he can perform like he did last night, I'd say he has 2 years left in him. The problem for me is that there aren't many fights out there for him. I hear Tarver mentioned, but he's just signed up to fight BHop. Kessler would be a good fight, but Calzaghe has stated he wants to move up to become a 2 weight world champion. I think we'll see Calzaghe fighting for Clinton Woods' IBF light heavy strap later this year.

Or like how you guranteed a loss for hatton? Where did I predict a loss for Hatton? Or do you mean JJ? :confused:

I guarantee that no more than 20,000 will show up. Like you guaranteed Lacy would KO Joe in the 1st?

I ran into this article on http://ringsidereport.com/ and i have to give this guy right HBO has set aside July 8th as a date for Super Middleweight Champion Joe Calzaghe. Some things never change with Calzaghe however. He still will not give up his home field advantage, opting to fight in Cardiff, Wales. His opponent is not currently set which disturbs me. HBO is notorious for letting their contract fighters take on soft opposition. Calzaghe is also notorious for fighting racking up meaningless title defenses against unworthy opponents. This hook up between HBO and Joe Calzaghe does not look promising at this point, especially since Calzaghe was given a date no matter who he fights. Team Calzaghe have looked at a couple of possible opponents. Allan Green was initially rumored which would have been a joke. Green is an untested prospect, not a world class contender. At this point in time Kelly Pavlik is the leading candidate to be Joe's opposition on July 8th. Pavlik is a bit more seasoned than Gree,n but I still have major problems with this choice. Kelly is in the process of transitioning from a prospect to a contender. Pavlik is also a natural middleweight that would have to move up in weight to fight Calzaghe. As if "The Pride of Wales" did not have enough advantages with his championship experience and fighting in his hometown he needs to seek out underdeveloped prospects from lower weight classes. All the cards would be stacked against Pavlik is he is chosen as Calzaghe's opponent. Hey Joe, try picking on someone your own size and someone on your own level. Mikkel Kessler is the only fighter that Calzaghe should be seeking out. Champions deserve a fight off after partaking in a superfight, but if Kessler is not on the menu by 2007, Calzaghe should be ashamed of himself. Joe has spent years fighting handpicked foes and it appears that nothing has changed because I have never even heard him say the name Mikkel Kessler http://ringsidereport.com/Wilbur5152006.htm The guy who wrote this article seems to have a big problem with Calzaghe fighting in Wales next. How many boxers have had the chance to fight in front of 80,000 fans in a venue the size of Millenium Stadium? Not many. Don't get me wrong, I'd like to see him fight Kessler since that's the most competitive fight for him at 168, but that's Frank Warren for you.

& remember that zoos corner pulled him out, he wos winnin the fight Not even close. He was down on all 3 cards and the only chance he had was to knock Hatton out in the 12th.