Noone would like to see a rematch more than I, but I hope those greedy ass promoters don't try to get either man back into the ring anytime soon.
What they both need is a good long rest. I would allow either man back in the ring ( especially against one another! ) for a good six months.
Anything is possible & one should never say never, but DAMN, I've been a die hard fan & been involved in the sport of boxing for the past 29 years & I've spent every waking moment since the referee embraced Castillo, stopping the contest, trying to come up with an equal or better fight & I can't do it.
A couple of years ago, after Gatti - Ward I , I was convinced that we wouldn't see a fight as breathtaking as that for a long, long time... well, I was wrong. Not only was Carrales - Castillo better, but it blew it away!
In my mind, the only way to come up with a fight as good as last night's fight would be to combine a couple-three classics, THEN you might have it's equal.
So, let's see:
- It had the intensity & the sheer savagry of the first first Ward-Gatti fight.
- It also had the brutality of Hagler-Hearns with the drama of the cut threatening to stop the contest.
- Then it had the multiple knockdowns & the horrible swellings suffered by the eventual winner of Kevin Kelly-Derrick Gainer I.
Mix all those elements up from those classics & you MIGHT have a fight as good as last night's.
Oh, and let's not forget the sportsmanship of Gatti-Ward as well.
He did alright, not great. He let Corrales spit that mouthpiece out twice to get all of those precious seconds to get it together and then jumps in on Castillo before he ever went down. Going into the fight, I wasn't pulling for either guy, but I thought that sucked for Castillo.
He HAD to stop the fight at that point, he had absolutely NO alternative.
I don't know if it was as obvious in regular definition, but I watched in in high-def (which is like being IN the ring) & there was no doubt that Castillo was just GONE! One or two more flush shots like that (especially from a murderous banger like Carrales!) & we could have seen a tragedy occur. I have no doubts about that.
As for Weeks' option of using the eight count, he didn't have it. There is no standing eight count.
Had Castillo fallen into or sagged down on the ropes, Weeks could have called a knoskdown had he seen fit, but the punishment was taking place along the ropes & the only option to him was to stop the fight.
Plus you have to consider the condition Castillo was in during the previous couple of rounds. On each occasion he went back to his corner on unsteady legs. While still VERY much in the fight, he was more hurt than Carrales was, even AFTER the knockdowns.
absolutely. Greatest Fight of all time in my opinion. Made Gatti V.S. Ward look boring.
Guys, Diego "out-Gatti-ed" Gatti & he "out-Hagler-ed" Hagler, all in one fight! :eek:
And let's not sell Castillo short either. He took MONSTER shots all night long & put up with that nasty cut for the last half of the fight, things that if he'd survived them to come back & drop his man twice like that in 99.999% of other fights would have led him to certain victory. But, Carrales somehow, someway came up with that little bit extra to claim victory for himself.
I have to say that it was, indeed, the VERY best fight I've ever seen.
And believe me, this isn't coming from some "Johnny come lately" or "casual fan". FAR from it.
At 43, I'm probably the oldest bloke on these boards or at least close to it & I've been a die hard boxing fan since I was 14 WAY back in 1976. So, as far as boxing fandom is concerned, I'm so old I crap dust! :p
Seriously though, I have watched the vast majority of the fights that have been televised on network, cable, closed circuit & PPV over the course of the past 29 years. So, that's a LOT of boxing! And, in that period of time, I've seen a helluva lot of great fights. Throw in the hundreds of tapes that I've watched of fights that took place before "my time" & I think you have to give me credit for having a pretty damn large "memory bank" of boxing matches to reference. And, I can't come up with one better than last night's contest.
Sure, it's not an exact science by any means & it's subjective as hell, so there are probably some who will disagree with me on this, but I'm claiming it as not just the fight of the year or the fight of the decade or the fight of the my lifetime, but as the best fight EVER!
corrales is going to get bitched in his next fight
Good Lord, does the hating never stop?!! :confused:
Dude, you were just witness to fucking history ( assuming you even ewatched the bloody thing... :rolleyes: . A pure classic! And you're going to take cheap shots at the winner? That shows no knowledge or respect for the game. And from that I can tell that you're not a real boxing fan at all, you're just a keyboard junky that occasionally catches some fights. That's all.
Since you're obviously SO knowledgable, why not enlighten us here about exactly whom you believe is so easily going to "bitch slap" Carrales in his next fight?
Oh, I don't think either man will ever be the same after that one. How can they be, they're only human?
If nothing else, last night's war took a couple-few years off of what remained of their careers.
Has this one actually been signed & scheduled?
I know that it's been in the discussion stages for the Tszyu-Hatton undercard, but hadn't heard that it was official yet.
Hopefully that's so.
If it does infact come off then I'm going to go with Skelton in what will probably be seen as a bit of an upset.
While I realize that with respect to actual learned skills & boxing experience, that Danny is head & shoulders above the still raw Skelton, I think other factors will dictate beyond those. Namely Skelton's unbeaten confidence coming in & Williams' post-Klitschko mental, emotional & physical state. Which I do NOT expect to be particularly good.
Danny has never been the most stable & focused of fighters under the best of circumstances ( the Tyson anomally not withstanding... ), but coming off of the horrific & complete beating that he suffered for 8 long rounds against Klitschko, I just can't see him being "all there". That sort of a defeat is of the sort that ruins careers.
And, if my instincts are correct then that's just what that KO by Vitali has done.
Who knows, I may be proven wrong & Williams will have learned something about himself during the long dark hours after that loss & will come back mentally focused, emotionally strong & physically prepared to take care of business & fight his way back to the top. With the domestic showdown against Skelton the first rung on that ladder.
But, I just don't see it going that way.
I see Skelton coming out & taking control of a unsure, unsteady Williams & forcing a stoppage in about 4 rounds.
I have had a partial rotator cuff tear and it was pretty bad.
Trouble is, I still had to go to work the next day and the day after that .....
Vitali needed to stay in their for what, a couple more rounds? Seems a bit like Golota walking outn of the ring, except Viatli sat in a chair and gave up. Thats not the kind of shit that wins the hearts of fight fans. Sure it hurt, sure it was bad, but we're looking for tough guys in the fight game. Vitali has done some things to redeem himself, like allowing Lennox to open him up for 40 stitches and not quitting, but other than that, he's not responded like a Champ when faced with adversity.
OK, I respect your opinion on this a bit more as someone who's been through the injury...
So, imagine having a full tear & having already gone through several rounds with it & facing the prospect of having to go through a couple-few more with it against another world class pugilist intent on taking your head off.
Hey, I wasn't too pleased with Vitali's decision back then myself. But, now in retrospect, especially how we've seen him respond in other adverse situations since, I feel comfortable with his explaination that he just could not continue.
I think a lot of the trouble with people's inability to accept his retiring in that contest was the fact that he did it in such a stoic manner. He displayed very little of the pain that he was in, therefore it came as a shock when he stayed in his corner. I think many of the people that criticize him so vehemently for it, would be a lot more forgiving if he'd outwardly displayed his pain & discomfort more.
Look at what I see as a REAL quitjob in Sharma Mitchell's retirement against Kostya Tszyu in their first fight.
It's clearly displayed on the video & audio that he's begging his corner to stop the fight for him, but then, during the post fight interviews he claimed that he wanted to continue & that his corner wouldn't allow him to blah, blah, blah...
Yet Mitchell doesn't get NEARLY as much flack as Klitschko does for retiring in his corner because Sharmba put on such a big display with his pain, writhing & moaning & crying & all that. :rolleyes:
Ray Leonard would have knocked Alexis Arguello out within three rounds.
Pryor needed 14 rds, & then 10 rounds, to turn the trick(s).
I guess Pryor could have outboxed Ray Leonard ? Not on this planet.
As for Ray avoiding Pryor ? LMAO !
Ray Leonard fought Tommy Hearns & Marvin Hagler.....but was afraid of PRYOR ?
I seriously think most of you are getting your shit second-handed. Those who were following boxing during that time period......know you youngins have bought into a MYTH that just sounds really good today.
Did you guys see Pryor struggling with the likes of Miguel Montilla, DuJuan Johnson, Akio Kameda, Nick Furlano, Gary Hinton ?
Ray Leonard would have knocked them all out in two rounds, all in the same night.
FINALLY!
Someone who was actually around during those days & watched the fighters we're discussing with an obviously educated eye.
I don't know where some of these folks have come from who have posted in this thread, but it's terribly obvious that they were either still filling their shorts while Pryor & Leaonard were fighting or ( even more likely ) not even born yet. Because, quite frankly, the majority of them just don't have a bloody clue!
You know what's funny about this?
Remember all the work & trouble it took for them to get Rahman to sign to fight Klitschko? They had to beg & plead & kiss his ass to get him to sign to fight the legitimate heavyweight champion of the world.
But to meet Barrett, all they had to do was offer a little cash & the prospect of winning an illigitimate green strap... :rolleyes:
With Rahman it's not about the prestige of proving that he's the best or the opportunity to once again become THE heavyweight champ. It's all about the $$$ & the path of least resistance to another plastic belt. It doesn't really matter to him which one it is either. He's fucking shameless. :o
I hope like hell that Monte Barrett rises to the occassion & beats the hell out of Rahman. He deserves a taste of the title after the long tough road he's taken.
Rahman? He's had his taste. And he already had his second chance against John Ruiz & he elected to blow it by electing not to fight that night. To hell with him.
The fact that a handful of easy wins over some rediculously over-matched opposition got him the #1 spot is a disgrace in my book. I plan on being Monte Barrett's biggest fan come July 23rd!
well it is good for Wlad's confidence, but any neutral person could have seen that this was not much of a fight. It seemed that Castillo just turned up to receive his check, and I have questions regarding the knockdown....as to me it seemed that it could have been a dive......perhaps not, but he didn't seem too interested in fighting anyway and he wobbled his jaw when he was down, even though he got hit on the nose?!?!?
either way this win should do well for Wlad's confidence, however, he'll have to fight in the states if he wants to become a proper world champion....and in the states you won't be seeing such a "controlled environment" (quoted by manny steward himself).
Dive?!! WTF? :confused:
If you seriously believe that fights like this are fixed, then why,exactly, would you even bother following the sport? It quite honestly makes no sense to me. :rolleyes:
I looked on boxrec and they have a date set for July 23 2005 at Madison Square Garden for the interim title. If Barrett is fighting Rahman then who is Byrd going to fight?
I think it's going to be one of three men.
Wladimir Klitschko is a possibility & he would definitely guarantee a bigger & better live gate to The Garden as opposed to just Rachman vs Barrett & Byrd vs anyone else. But then, we all know how much King likes to keep the titles "in house" so he could go with option B or option C. Which would be, the winner of this Saturday night's match ups Williamson - Jefferson or Donald - Austin.
Ruiz is going to get knocked out Sturm. That hugging tactic will not cut it against Toney's accurate punching. For one, he is not going to hold up against the uppercutts and hooks to the body that Toney will deal out, two, he doesnt have the lateral movement to avoid Toney. And one could even argue, three....that he has far inferior ring intelligence. This fight is a clear mismatch IMO.
I ABSOLUTELY agree with you.
Anyone with a good, educated eye for boxing ( like us :D ) should be able to see that in this fight, Ruiz's penchant for grabbing & holding & leaning on his opponents ISN'T going to work like he's used to.
Toney's lack of height is actually going to be an asset in this fight as his lower center of gravity will allow him to nullify a lot of Ruiz's shit tactics. Toney will bend at the knees & step out to the left or the right while staying on Ruiz's chest, eliminating "The Quiet Man's" offense while being in perfect range to dig in his own uppercuts & hooks to the body. The biggest worry for Toney will be all the bitching & complaining that Ruiz will do while trying to convince the ref that Toney's legit body blows are ,infact,low blows. :mad:
Sanders was (is?) ,indeed, a LOT better than most people give him credit for.
Infact, as a Wladimir Klitschko fan posting in the Boxingtalk.com forums at the time, I got a lot of heat for indicating that I was worried about Universum's choice of Sanders as Wlad's opponent back in 2003. The other regulars there were distainful of my concern & insisted that Sanders was a bum.
Well, we all saw what happened there! :rolleyes:
I'll always consider Universum's choice of Sanders as Wlad's opponent for that night one of the all time biggest blunders in boxing history.
Wlad was coming off of the biggest win of his career in a onesided fight in which he KO'd a highly regarded opponent to become the universal #1 heavyweight contender. He pretty much had the boxing world at his feet.
The Sanders fight was simply a "showcase" fight meant to keep Wlad busy while awaiting the inevitable showdown with Lennox Lewis for the World Title. They could have pretty much chosen anyone & HBO would have shown it & the live gate in Germany would have sold out.
I forget exactly who the other names were that were considered, but one fighter in particular ( Kirk Johnson? ) was close to signing, but wanted more money & Universum balked. So, they went with Sanders instead.
In a "brilliant" move, they saved a few bucks on a guy that Wlad would have KO'd inside of a couple of rounds & brought in a FAR more dangerous opponent in Corrie Sanders. A big, skilled, experienced, power punching southpaw with very quick hands. The very sort of fighter that competent promoters & managers avoid putting their charges in with unless there's ABSOLUTELY no choice.
Yet, Universum brought him in as a "tune up" opponent! :eek:
u misunderstood me........i didn't mean that he dived in such a way, but rather that he went down and couldn't have been bothered getting up (which in my opinion, seemed that he was OK to continue).....
he showed no interest or hunger throughout the fight, and didn't bother getting back up..........i am sure you agree with me on this one!
My bad.
I understand what you meant now.
I aplogize if I came down on you hard, I was just frustrated with the usual plethora of Klitschko haters who ( as usual ) came out of the woodwork to sling their insults & post their latest conspiracy theories. I shouldn't have included you in amoungst that lot.
BTW, I have no idea who she is, but your's ,by FAR, is my favorite avatar!
:D
Peace.
klitchko sucks boring fight he thinks he can take the world now AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA lame ass! bitch fag,
Wow.
I guess after that highly intelligent, insightful commentary on the fight, we Klitschko fans should just defer to your superior knowledge & just give up on the guy, huh? :rolleyes:
nard fought the echols fight from the 4th round on, with a dislocated shoulder.
Gatti fought the Ward fight with a broken hand.
Raymond joval fought an entire fight with a broken jaw.
Vitali is the largest pussy in boxing, bar none. Face it. (physically biggest)
A dislocation & a torn rotator cuff are two completely different things. Once the shoulder is out of joint it hurts, sure, but it's NOTHING compared to a rotator cuff tear.
Believe me. I've been through both. I know first hand.
Whether Pryor would have knocked him out or Leonard won by decision, all I know is Pryor wanted the fight bad and Leonard didnt want no part of it. Personally, I lost some respect for Leonard after I saw the clip of one of his press confrences in the Pryor-Aguello Legendary Nights. If a legit contender in Pryor went out of his way to respectively challenge Leonard in public,and Leonard still totally blew him off.....if youre a true champ the only explanation in my opinion is Leonard was duckin. I pick a Pryor KO in one of the early-late rounds, KO is the only way Pryor would have won. Though I defintley dont count out a Leonard KO or decision.
How in the fuck could Leonard have been ducking Pryor when by the time Pryor had done something significant enough to make the fight attractive ( i. e. his KO of Arguello ) Leonard was retired due to his detatched retina?!!
Please, before making TOTALLY unfounded accusations, do a little research & pay attention to the timelines involved. :rolleyes:
I think a Brewster rematch is a possibility if he gets past Golota, but I really don't think that's going to happen. I believe that Golota's FINALLY going to win a piece of the heavyweight title ( even if it's just a little piece... ) by beating Brewster.
Brewster taken fierce beatings in his last two fights & is ready to be taken. Golota will finish what Wladimir & Kali Meehan started.
Then, I think what we'll see is a Golota - Wlad Klitschko fight. Held in the proper place, it's a fight that could be huge. Two eastern European heavyweights that have big followings despite checkered pasts. It would do excellent on HBO as well.
The live gate could be huge anywhere in Germany, Poland or the Ukraine, but Don King being Golota's promoter, I think it's more likely that we'd see it held at The Garden. It would be the most likely place for it in the US considering the NYC area's large population of both Golota's & Klitschko's countrymen.
Ray Leonard would have demolished Aaron Pryor.
Tell me ONE foe that Pryor faced who was on Leonard's level ?
Don't give me Arguello, either. Arguello was at his best at 130, in the late 70's.
Pryor struggled like hell with the smaller, slower Arguello. Believe me, Ray Leonard's 147 lb. punches would have inflicted far more damage than Arguello's 140lbers would have.
Lb 4 lb., Arguello was a much bigger hitter than Leonard.....but we're talking about a significant size difference.
Pryor's style would have played right into the hands of Ray.....Always off-balance, susceptible to getting dropped (see Akio Kameda, DuJuan Johnson, Cervantes).....& vulnerable to body shots....
Pryor was too small & flawed to hang with Ray Leonard.
No offense to Pryor, who was a terrific fighter. But Ray was bigger, & just plain better.
Again, right on the money.
As I said in my earlier post regarding this match up, Pryor was a fabulous fighter. An all time great. Perhaps THE top man at 140 lbs ever. But, as a natural 135 lb fighter, there's just no way that hangs with, much less beats Ray Leonard.
And I don't want anyone bringing up Duran as an example of another "natural lightweight" beating Leonard. Duran always struggled to make 135 & was in fact a natural welter who killed himself to get down to lightweight.
Take my word for it as I'm met both men on numerous occasions over the years, Duran has a much larger frame than Pryor does. He's physically a bigger man. That's why he was able to hang with Leonard for three fights while Pryor would not have been able to.
That & his chin. Duran had an all time great chin. A fantastic chin that really only failed him once & that was against P4P one of the VERY best punchers ever in Thomas Hearns ( I'll not count the TKO3 to William Joppy because Duran was a grandfather by then . Whereas, though a terrific fighter, Pryor did NOT possess a great chin. It wasn't bad, but it was vulnerable. The first round spills against both Antonio Cervantes & Akio Kameda aren't so much proof of this, but more so his very rocky moments against Dujaun Johnson who dropped him & had him in serious trouble before Pryor came back to KO him.
Johnson was a big light welterweight who probably was closer to a natural welter in all honesty & he troubled Pryor greatly with his punch & superior strength. And, while Johnson was good, he wasn't anywhere even remotely near Leonard in ANY category.
I'm telling you, a Leonard - Pryor match would have greatly resembled the Terry Norris KO of the outsized, outgunned Meldrick Taylor.
First off Pryor would not get knocked out by sugar forget that. His chin has made of granite and knocking out Hearns does not prove he could knock out Pryor. Also many people who were close to sugar and Pryor said when they had sparring matches it often turned into a slug fest and a real fight and according to those in close, even rays management team Pryor beat his ass all over the place. Now does this mean in a "real fight" pryor would win, no but he would give sugar hell of a time. Pryor also beat the hell out of Hearns in the amateurs and was brought in once to spar with him but it turned ugly and Pryor was removed from Hearns camp. I say Pryor by late Ko or Sugar by descion
Not to be rude dude, but you just don't have a clue.
First of all, as great as he was, the one thing that WASN'T great about Pryor was his chin. He was dropped & hurt many times during his career. True, he came back on those occasions ( not counting the Bobby Joe Young fight that is ) to win, but then, he never faced a bigger, stronger, finisher like Ray Leonard.
Sparring is sparring is sparring. Nuff said.
When Pryor beat Thomas Hearns it was at 132 lbs. Hearns was a rail thin kid who could box beatifully, but hadn't yet developed any sort of physical strength or punch yet.
I must say, these rabid Pryor fans that are coming out of the woodwork are begining to sound downright delusional. They are honestly incapable of reason on this subject.
No matter what facts are thrown at them they respond with generalized bullshit or baseless accusations in counterpoint.
Case in point, this nonsense about Leonard moving up in weight to avoid Pryor as an amateur. :rolleyes: Nonsense. Leonard may have competed at 132 at some point early in his amateur career, but his plethoa of titles & honors in the Golden Gloves, the AAU Nationals, International competetion & the Olympics all came at 139 lbs.
DAMN, that's a helluva lot of accomplishments supposedly done just to avoid one fighter! :p
If, infact, Pryor was so fearsome that a win over Leonard was a "sure thing", then why didn't he compete at 139 & try for Leonard's spot at the Olympic trials?
Instead, he remained at his natural weight & met & was beaten by Howard Davis Jr.. A smaller fighter than Ray Leonard who was physically not nearly as strong, had little power & possessed a dodgey chin. Yet he still managed to beat Pryor. Yet, Leonard wouldn't have had a chance against him? :rolleyes:
Onto the pros...
I never said that Pryor's chin was rubbish.
And, yes , a couple of his knockdowns ( Cervantes & Akio Kameda particularly ) were of the flash variety & he wasn't hurt by them. But, once again , Dujaun Johnson DID hurt him. And there were other occasions in which Pryor wasn't dropped, but was rocked or stunned.
Pryor was without a doubt an all time great. But, so was Leonard & all things being equal, a good big man always beats a good little man.
A Pryor was a naturally much smaller man than Leonard. You've got to remember that Pryor was actually a relatively small framed lightweight. Infact, he never had any difficulty making 135 lbs. It was actually his preferred weight class, but he couldn't anyone to fight him at that weight class. So, he took some fights at light welterweight to stay busy & make a living until he could land a title shot.
Unfortunately, none of the guys at lightweight would give him a shot, so they jumped at the chance when Antonio Cervantes agreed to defend against him. Then after he won the 140 lb title he had to stay there. But, he said on many occasions that he was ready, willing & able to go back down to 135 if it would help him land a big fight.
The only time he fought over 140 was after his trouble with drugs & he was just outsized & worn down in his only loss, a KO to the so so welterweight Bobby Joe Young.
Besides being too small for Leonard, he didn't match up well styles-wise with Leonard. He was pressure, volume puncher with big gaps in his defense. Not a terrible liability against men his own size, but Leonard would have just been too big, too strong & hit to hard for him.
Oh, Aaron would have certainly made it very exciting for as long as it lasted, but it wouldn't have lasted terribly long.
Leonard by KO4.
think he's had a couple of fights before in the US, this fight is a major step back, audrey is a fuckin joke, good amateur - totally shit pro who has no hunger, once he's in a hard fight he'll bitch the tits off it.
Brocks progress has showed him right up.
I totally agree.
What's really funny is that Harrison was the one who said that he'd beat Danny Williams for the British title within his first couple of fights as a pro. Now, here we are five long years later & he's still taking on ludicrously overmatched opposition like Zumbrin. With no light at the end of the tunnel in regards to a quality fight for him. :rolleyes:
I think he's a complete dog.
Being of proper English & Irish stock myself, I usually root for most fighters from the UK, but when it comes to Harrison, I can't wait to see him take a good pasting!
Again, I'll wager that the vast majority of those posting on this thread & touting such outcomes in Pryor's favor have never even seen him fight live on the telly.
Some of them weren't even out of their nappies yet when he was fighting. :rolleyes:
I am sorry to tell you but both option sare stupid. Wladimir is not going to beat Golota aif they fight for 1. For 2 it would be compltely worthless in terms of buildings Wladimir's reputation and stature to beat Brewster, right After Golota KO's him and he got the gift descison to Kali Meehan.
In any event I would love to see Golota fight Wladimir, it would be interesting, and Wladimir wanted to fight Golota several years ago but at that time Golota felt unprepared, so if they fight it will be coo, but I guarantee Golota will knock him out, Golota is a big puncher with a good chin, just the kind of fighter Wladimir has problems with.
I'm a longtime fan of both fighters - reclaimation projects. And, I'm hoping for a Golota victory over Brewster as much or more as anybody. IMO he got a raw deal in both of his previous title opportunities. As far as I'm concerned, he beat both Byrd & Ruiz.
I believe that if he keeps his head on straight ( like he did in his last two fights ) & keeps his hands busy, he shouldn't have any problems against Brewster. He's a far superior fighter to him in every aspect of the game.
If/when he beats Brewster & takes the WBO title, I think the biggest fight out there for him is one with Wladimir Klitschko. The only way that I don't see it happening is if Wlad signs to fight Chris Byrd first, but King will probably give Byrd the winner of either the Donald-Austin match or the Williamson-Jefferson one.
So, Golota - Klitschkois a VERY good possibility.
However, the bad news for Golota fans is that Wladimir is a bad styles match up for Andrew. As effective as he can often be with it, Golota's a plodder & he throws looping shots. While Klitschko possesses the superior footwork, has better handspeed & throws straight punches. He's a bigger puncher as well. All of which adds up to a distinct edge for Wlad.
i agree, did anyone ever see what danny williams shoulder looked like in that fight with potter? much much worse than vitali's injury, vitali is a pussy, so is wlad, i used to like vitali,but the fag fights once a year, and he is postponing his fight with rahman in the hopes that rock will lose his motivation and get fat again. Vitali knows rock will kayo him if he comes to the fight in shape
Again, each individual & each injury is different.
And, a cuff tear & a dislocation are very different injuries.
Trust me.