PBF/RJJ-it's a toss up between the two. both have atributes i admire. i love the way floyd does that shoulder roll and counters with lightening speed. of course no one has ever seen a fighter put BOTH his hands behind his back, slip-duck-counter...and KO his opponent in a title fight...
BH-this guy is so savvy i can't even descirbe how good he is. he's not flashy but he has so many bags of tricks it's unreal. he maybe dirty at time but it works...note:watch how he clinches spins the opponent opposite the ref and hits the guy on the hip...then next time around he feints low (where the guy is sore from the hip shot) and leads with a right straight....damn beautiful.
Keep in mind Ali was past his best in fights with Frazier, Norton, and Foreman.
He was a much better fighter in 1967 when he could move non stop for 15 round.
Against the Ali from the Williams fight, I say he still outboxes Evander, although Holychamp would be competitive.
I agree. Holy had a great chin but his power was nowhere close to fraziers. pre-2-year-layoff ali would have schooled him...however by the time ali came back the second time around he was no longer the same and was unfortunately a half step slower...i could see Holyfield outworking that Ali in a close fight.
i thought had roy gotten hit it would have been over (and i'm a big roy jones fan)...that first round have be a heart attack when ruiz hit him with two big shots...but after the mid rounds i knew rjj had it under control...but IMO his best was his first tarver fight...crippled with the weight loss he dug deep and fought his guts out...
You would think since Roach has been around more than long enough to know just how good Erik is, that there would have been no doubt in Manny's mind what he was up against. Realizing it in the ring is very bad timing.
As for what Erik did..well, experience and ring smarts go a long way dont they. ;) I think he'll do better in a rematch, and even though I like Manny, I still think Erik would win it too..regardless of the gloves. He has so many assets in the ring..and he's damned hard to overcome. If he had taken the third fight with Barrera even half serious, I think that fight would have gone completely different from the way it did.
roach was banking on the erik morales who fought barrerra. the one who stodd still when hit and traded. it's too bad roach didn't bank on the erik morales who could box and used the JMM blue print. barerra beat erik beacuse of his shorter inside punches and lateral movement...pac's got a straight in straight out movement that works well with his stiff left straight but it's bad news if the guy is taller with a great straight of his own. i'm not a pac hater...i'm filipino so i 'can't'...lol...but when pac signed this fight i knew it was bad news. that 'manila ice' was a complete dud...pac needs to go back to school....
It means the opponent could not catch the pussy running around the ring all night. I hate fighters that fight like that....run around the ring, dance around the ring, then win rounds on landing like 15 jabs, its disgracefull boxing style. It exploits the 10 point must system. Its also the fault of the 10 point must system that fighters can consistantly win in that style, when they ought not to. I hear judges are discouraged from scoring even rounds, that is bullshit, alot more rounds in boxing should be called even. If niether fighter does a thing descisive in a round score the f***er even. I hate seeing fights where one pussy ass fighter wins a shutout UD without landing a single meaningfull punch in the entire bout.
i agree with you. my definition of defense is more slipping and sliding in angles while creating punching room for yourself...but you can't fault a boxer for taking a win...i agree i hate the 10 point must system.
Roy Jones is one of the fastest and most dominant boxers of all time, but let's be honest, his defence sucks. Tarver exposed him TWICE
you obviously have not seen jones at super middleweight...
All I'm saying was that when Jones was in worse shape, he seemed to do better than when he was in top shape.
i don't agree...with anything you have added in this thread for that matter. i believe roy was not the same after the weight loss. can anyone concieve 25lbs muscle loss? you're never the same. you can probably get away with it if you were in your early twenties...but certainly not in your mid thirties.
in the first fight roy saw some of the punches comming. the welt on his eye was abbrasions from his glove when he blocked tarver's shots. tarver was also tentative and gave roy a lot of respect.
in the second fight. roy out pointed tarver in the first round. tarver got pissed. he waited for roy to employ his 'right and lead-move back while left hooking' move (which i think tarver ran through his head over and over during training) and countered...anyone would get knocked out with a perfectly timing shot like that. roy couldn't see it comming because he was too focused on unleashing his left because tarver hardly threw anything the rest of the round.
i believe bernard priced himself out. roy gave him the oppurtunity to recieve more money than he had ever recieved in his entire career (only to be eclipsed by his DLH fight more than 5 years later)...i remember that interview with merchant, bernard, and roy
BH:'larry, i want the two best p4p fighters to come at a catch weight...'
RJJ:'i'm the champion, my terms are 60/40'
BH:'then what am i?!! if you the champ, what am i?!'
RJJ:'well then 60/40 will get yo ass split...'
BH:'...he don't wanna fight larry...'
RJJ:'...60/40 i'll kick yo ass!!..'
BH: 'he don't wanna fight larry....'
that was funny. make no mistake these guys are friends and acknowledge each other at every boxing event.
Roy doesn't seem like the kind of guy who will let himself go, after he's done fighting.
He's a real athlete.....& a clean living guy.
no,no,no...that is not what i meant. usually his shoulders are broader and walks comfortably around 180ish...at that fight he looked very much like a super middleweight
RJJ-i'm a counterpuncher and a south paw as well. it would be great to have a chess match with him...although he'd checkmate me in 30 seconds...lol
Mayorga-just cuz i'd like to have him invite me to punch him on the jaw...only to watch his face while i sidekick him on the kneee...then let go an uppercut...lol
nah, its not really 44 but i always liked it cause thats what larry merchant says after its over("44 punch combo") its alot of very fast punches but some of the best combos he threw are in the brannon fight, at one point he throws 8 left hooks in a row, super fast! there's also a moment in the percy harris fight when he lands 4 left hooks in one second :eek: no shit either, ive timed it
he really was a monster at middle and super middle-weight.
to be honest as much of a fan i am of roy i think he should hang up the gloves. he's got too much to lose. and now with his 3 boys growing up and newly married...it's come to a point where...he's made boxing history, he's got his health, his legacy, his family...why jeapordize that?
btw- anyone catch the way roy looked at the toney-ruiz fight? he looked like he was in shape. he looked around 170-ish.
Muhammad Ali
I will not give credit to fighters for being great defensive fighters who fight like complete pussies 90% of the time and run.
so if a pussy wins..what does that say about the opponent?...lol
roy's got to love boxing again and not come back for the wrong reasons...if he loves it the way he did back at super-middleweight he'll be okay in his comeback...win-lose-or draw. if he comes back because of pride or ego...we may see a man get seriously hurt...permanently.
This is why the whole world hates America, because of your stinking attitudes and all your damn lies.
you just made idiot of the week. congrats. now go lace up some gloves and talk about boxing instead of talking about stats, rankings, and interviews.
Well it's true, you make yourselves so difficult to admire. Why are all American's full of hatred? Why do they try to bully other countries? Why do they over-rated themselves and over-exaggerate themselves? Why do they plain and simple bullshit? It's beyond a joke FFS. It's been proven that the UK is the most successful boxing country in the world based on how many World Champion's we have produced with such a tiny population, and remember that boxing first started in London - that is where it all began.
It's guys like the 30stonegorilla who fucks yourselves up. It pisses me off, man.
i wouldn't say american's in general are full of hatred. the propoganda machine of the american government is what stirs things up. and as for right now america is not the most popular country (invading a country that had no WMD and breaking the geneva convention will do that). of course the current president is not the sharpest tool in the box. how intersting that the economy is shit, we are no where near as safe as we were from terrorist attack, and the so called homeland security technology is more aimed at keep it's citizens on check. on a side note...the UK is not without a history of fault (and blood).
i believe he does have a chance...although it's going to be quite tough as hopkins is very ring savvy. he clinches and hits at the break, he spins you, holds your neck and hits,...he's got all the neat (and dirty) tricks in the book.
i think the best weapon taylor has is his youth and his jab. the kid has a decent thudding jab and if he gets into a tempo he might steal some rounds from b-hop. jermain just needs to be 'smart' about throwing the jab though as hopkins is notorious for throwing counter lead right hands...
I AM a potato. I watch, study the science. Does it invalidate my ability to discuss it unless I've taken shots to the head? If it does, then that's okay... I'd rather be declared "invalid" than have someone smack me in the head. Boxing's for watching, not for doing...
i don't beleive it invalidates anything. people can watch from the side lines and pick up stuff. just like swimming. but my point is that to get a greater understanding you gotta take a dip in the pool. would you ever get taught by a swimming instructor who hasn't swam in his life? he'll probably teach you every technique from all the books he's read but when you finally jump in and you're sucking in water then you get a better understanding of how vaulable experience is.
Christ, how pathetic is the "have you boxed?" argument. It's so lame and it gets trotted out so often it's mind-numbing.
Here's one for cvt: it's called "have you ever learnt to read?" Because this thread had jack shit to do with how good in the ring Roy was.
i wasn't refuting the 'questionable' opposition arguement and i clearly know what the thread is about. my post was in response to those people who posted on this thread of jones' abilities. let's get that straight.
and the 'have you boxed?' argument is not pathetic.it's quite valid that you can't talk about the ins and outs of swimmming without ever jumping in the pool...so yes i believe ring credentials is valid. unless you're the very potato i'm talking about.
i don't understand why peolpe try to discredit roy jones jr. professional trainers and fighters herald him as the greatest talent to even lace up gloves. sugar ray robinson may have been the best pound for pound but roy moved in that ring like he was touched by god. ever notice everytime a fighter walks into the ring (mosley, mayweather, hopkins, toney, etc.) they all go to the corner to pat hands with rjj when he's commentating. it's giveing respect and acknowledgment to a person who gave many people a sight to see.
to all those people who discredit roy with stats and interviews and whatnot...have you laced boxing gloves? better yet fight competively full contact? i have. and so do many of my peers. i've been in the fight game since i was 4 (i'm 27 now). and just watching roy you can see how well he times people comming in, how we shifts of to the side to hit and not get hit, the way he draws an opponent in and then launches with a left hook...it's really quite beautiful if you know the nuances of the ring...of course if you're a couch potato then you'll fail to notice such things. my point is...the pros know he's great...why wouldn't joe schmoe couch potato think he's great? cuz he memorizes stats?...lol
im sure lots of guys have "the power"
but not many have te skills needed to use that power against him
i agree. paq had more than enough power...what he lacked was experience, an inside fight game, and overall ring smarts (i mean seriously if somethin's not workin' change it up...don't just go in trying to keep landing that big left to the head...)
What a disgusting topic.QUOTE]
if you look real close it happens in 90% of championship pro-fights. it's such an occurence that it's now pretty much a part of the game...
gatti is a good boxer. he started off his career having good movement until he fell too much in love with his power and started comming foward all the time.
i think beating floyd is going to be tough. if and when he pins floyd to the ropes he'd better attack the body fierce...but if he waits and postures too much or runs in all the time with no plan...floyd will pick him apart.
btw-he better not underestimate mayweather's punching. if he gets caught in between punches he'll get buzzed.
i was a bit worried about roy when he fought james toney. i loved the way JT would roll his shoulder and counter then give you that pop after. not a lot of people understood how great james was back in the day. he had this toughness about him and yet had this 'cutesie' style as well. i was so worried about roy because JT would counter so well. i was very surprised how quick roy was back at middleweight (compared to now weighing in at 175).
i really hope he doesn't come back. he doesn't have it anymore and he's got wife and kids to think about. he should just stay in the sidelines and help coach young hopefuls like andre ward.
dirty move that i do is when i am in a clinch i press my head against my opponents eye real hard so that his eye get blurry and i just whack him hook,right or uppercuts to the body
whoa i forgot about that one!! lol!.that works real nice especially in the later rounds when a lot of salty sweat has built up...stings for a little..but a split second is all you need.
Lennox Lewis used to hold the back of a fighters head with one hand and deliver an uppercut with the other!
That was a little naughty.
i agree. lennox was a bit underrated when it came to being slick. he was quite a knowledgable fighter in the ring...and quite a gentleman too. you'd have the feeling that if he fouled ya he'd give you a wink and a grin then say 'sorry bout' that chap...'.lol.
Tell him his fans are concerned about him, and only his health matters. Ask him if he will fight if he can't get joy out of it. There's no point if he can't.
absolutely. since his last KO losses people seem to forget all too easily how good he really was. even a raw bernard hopkins and a young james toney was easily more skillful than tarver and glencoffe. many people scoff at his resume but people seem to forget that virgil hill, montel griffin, juan gonzales (the man who brought dariuz's first loss and was rocked by jones) were solid fighters as well.
i think good questions to ask him are to give an insight of his training methods. how he was able to condition and cope with having brittle hands. what he learned during the glencoffe/tarver losses..and how he plans to overcome his loss in speed and power if he does come back.
LOL!! Can you ask Hatton why he doesnt come to America to fight?
actually hatton is fighting on U.S. soil on his next fight...diego will have his hands full.