Ahhh, the chronic masterbater in residence, stroking himself in public . . . again.
Surely little ElRod must be chaffed raw by now!?
I'd advise you to get the wee member checked for an STI. The gunk that it's spurting out, it just isn't normal.
That was always a risk with this one.
When any event is hyped to this magnitude it no longer becomes about the event itself. Rather, it evolves into a self important ego trip. How many of those in the arena were multi millionaire socialites with no interest in boxing but who just had to be seen at the 'Fight of the Century'? 'Stars of stage and screen' who hadn't been to a boxing event in decades but desperately wanted to add to the 'Superfights' that they'd attended like school kids collecting baseball cards for peer kudos. ". . And now as part of our Cinco de Mayo celebrations please stand for the Mexican national anthem . . . " Why? So lip service can be paid to a representative section of boxing fans that have been priced out of the event?
Hype, like a lie, only has force when people are willing to believe it. And people wanted to believe in this one so they could stand around the water cooler and regurgitate what they'd read online as if they knew what they were talking about. So they could give their opinions. Tell people where they were watching the fight. Express what they felt about it. How they thought it would go down. Give their predictions. So they could say that they were a part of this social event. That they might not particulary care about boxing but by God they're far too important not to be a part of an event of this magnitude.
So they believed. They dismissed their critical thinking. The biggest fight in boxing history! "It must be right, 'cause isn't that what we're being told to pay all that money for?" If it's expensive it must be special and aren't we all special so we can't spare any expense to be a part of this one. . . They didn't stop to think what actually makes this bout special. "Isn't it because it hadn't already happened? And if it didn't happen now then it wouldn't happen at all?"
A fight 6 years distanced from any semblance of being a genuinely great sporting event. Two past prime fighters cashing out. What did anyone really expect from a 36 year old man fighting a man of 38? An explosive dynamic action packed encounter? They allowed themselves to believe it was one way when a few simple questions would have shown them that it was another. They didn't want to ask 'cause they were too busy wanting to believe that this was special and being a part of it made them special to.
And now? Well, they may feel a little used. Manipulated. Lied to. Distracted with a fairy tale of Good verses Evil whilst their pockets where being rifled. So? . . . So now they know a little bit more about the sorid business end of this little sport of ours. Welcome to Boxing. Do come back soon . . . . we know you will.
This is great stuff, O dear... Frampton really is up tight, Burning way to much energy. let's hope he's not like that on Saturday night and a tad more relaxed :boxing:
I'd perhaps be a little concerned if I were Shane or Barry. When that bell rings all of the pre fight tension may well dissipate. But, then again it may not.
Frampton hasn't shown so far that he knows how to let go of the negative emotion that's causing him to act up.
We're only ever in the moment we're in. If can't let go of it now when it isn't as intense, I'd start to question whether he can let go of it at all.
It's in his favour that he's the more skillfull fighter though 'cause if you step through the ropes with that much tension then start to get frustration by your opponents style its pretty much game over.
The prodigy Shane has clearly f*cked up here. Did you watch the public workout yesterday? Not a bead of sweat from Frampton, he's dry as a bone.
I hadn't but I've just had a gander now you've put me on to it. They both looked a little irate to be there as well.
Shieet, that ever even occurred to me. Yeah, I reckon there could be something in that. You sure know your stuff, sir, technical and psychological. Like me some Norman Mailer, reading some of his stuff assured me that there was a place for the intellectual in boxing. Wish I had more of an understanding of the technical side, never got to box myself and my hands are buggered these days so I can't take it up for the time being.
Yerr I thought initially it was beyond Quigg's mental capabilities to set a trap! But yes, he spoke of it in The Gloves Are Off and sure enough it was a nice counter shot he caught Kiko with. I just hope team Frampton aren't overlooking him in any sense. It's gonna be one hell of a fight. I'm surprised there's not more interest on here. People are more interested in whether or not Mayweather's a homosexual haha.
Interesting what you say there about Hatton, I know he battled hard with the depression following those two losses. Both by KO too, must've been hard to take. I suffered something similar, a death of the sense of self as you put it, I was once a very promising blues guitar player, destined for great things, then I injured my hands and that dream died. Very hard to take. But! You come out the other side stronger, it's true what they say. Either that or you end it altogether. Ah well.
Yeah, Barry was something else, such a character, very eloquent, a great lilt to his voice, and like you say, everything he encompassed during that time, fantastic. What other fighters do you like?
The frilliness of Mayweather's under-crackers is definately of more pressing concern than a fight between these two 'euro-bums'! . . . . Jesting aside, this is this first thread I can recall posting in for a long time that isn't being trolled. I'd actually forgotten how pleasant it can be to discuss boxing on here without people have forcefully expressed agendas.
Sad to hear about your hands. I've always respected those who put the time and effort into playing an instrument (especially when it's used to play The Blues!) , partly because I dabble woefully at plucking a few strings now and again. Much to the chagrin of anyone in earshot.
I like most boxers myself. There's usually some aspect of how they go about their craft that I admire or keeps me entertained so it'd be a very long list. It's probably easier to name the few that I don't like:
Wladimir Klitschko
Jamie McDonnell
Gavin McDonnell
Chris Eubank Jr.
Anyone else I enjoy watching or at the very worst I can tolerate. Them four though? Nah.
Styles make fights, And your bang on the button, Stylistically Frampton should take the fight. His movement his selection of punches are way beyond that of Quigg IMO.
Why I give Quigg the even chance, Is that Quigg to me is the stronger fighter, The Bigger fighter, And that of the better engine, Coupled with the fact,that he has been given the role of the slight under dog, Will/has only push him to champion his heart and belief to even greater heights.
Plus I'm a sucker for an "underdog" :boxing::boxing:
If the fight goes down the stretch and he hasn't been steadily picked off by then I'd see that being Quiggs best hope - imposing himself physically. Frampton switches angles, slips punches, in all has a good amount of movement that Quigg doesn't consistently show. It's superior boxing but it does burn up more energy and that could be a factor the longer the fight goes on.
I can't help comparing this fight to when John Murray fought Anthony Crolla though. I had Murray for that one. I felt he'd be too strong, I'm sure in no small part because I wanted him to win the contest. Crolla surprised me that night.
What I have noticed in the build up is Frampton has referred to his career in the past tense on a couple of occasions, gazing backwards upon it. It may well just be the Belfast vernacular, but there are certainly aspects of the sport that he no longer likes. Training for instance and the fact that it keeps him away from his young family. His house does look very comfortable.
Quigg's an altogether different case. Sat on the couch of his Mum's terraced house he's still very much a hungry fighter. I'm not stating that Frampton isn't but he clearly has to tap into his reserves of will to get up in the morning and put himself through training. Will is finite, it depletes and has to be restored. That in itself can be draining.
Quigg looks like he enjoys what he does so much that he rarely needs to will himself to get out of the door and put himself through another day of gruelling preparations. The man is in the gym as normal on a Christmas Day if it doesn't fall on a Sunday!
We're playing percentages in terms of the actual difference that could make come fight night. But if it develops into a war, do you think the man who hasn't started to drain at his will in the build up also holds a slight edge, however marginal?
:boxing:Not long now, For the ones of you who haven't seen it yet here's the face off :boxing:
http://youtu.be/9cV9fKLEHdg
Carl seemed a bit vulnerable, Did anyone else get this? All in all I still believe this to be a 50/50 pick erm fight :boxing::boxing:
Whoop De Whoooop Whoooop Whoooooop!! Mega excited for this one.
I was initially a little surprised at how easily Quigg seems to have gotten under Frampton's skin. Scott by his own admission isn't that articulate and I think I fell into the trap of equating that with intelligence. He's pushed the right buttons and the way that Barry responded to the suggestion that the team would have to work on Carl's 'mental demons' suggests there might to something to what Joe Gallagher was saying during the presser.
A good friend of mine is a big Quigg fan, he identifies with his spartan lifestyle and has been talking about this fight for the last couple of years. I felt for him. He'd ask me who I'd pick and I'd politely smile and generally keep my opinion to myself. Technique, ring smarts, punch selection. I had Frampton all day.
Now the fights got closer though, all my critical capabilities have shut down. I'm now in full fan fanatic mode. Quigg's a local lad and he's a f*ckin' nice guy! . . . . That now seems to be enough to make me conclude that Quiggels wins this one by stoppage.
I think frampton has to many tools in his bag....good movement.punch variation has decent power and I believe he can stop quigg late...quigg is very basic one gear fighter in my eyes and although he stopped kilo Martinez I do believe frampton finished him more clinically...it's a good match up and should be really competitive but I believe frampton has little bit more natural talent....and I like a frampton as well...quigg I think has been a little disrespectful IMO ....frampton by 10 rounds...
WAR UK :boxing::boxing:
I'd pretty much concur. For me, in the first three/four rounds Frampton should be looking to gain a level of composure, control the distance, work off various types of jab, start to get the timing of Quigg and then be looking to land counters when Quigg's pressing the issue.
Rounds four to eight, I think he capitalises on the effect of landing left hook counters when Quiggs coming in and starts to set up his own right hands by touching Quigg with the left. I see his plan being to steadily break Quigg down at this juncture. Like I've mentioned before, I can see Scott touching the canvas at this point after Carl stepping through with a stiff left whilst Quigg is square on.
Depending on how successful he's been at that I can see him pressing the issue rounds eight to ten and looking for a stoppage. By this point I envision Quigg being behind on points and taking chances that'll leave him vulnerable. If the stoppage hasn't come by the tenth, I see Framton boxing clever for the final two rounds and being content with a points win. I'll go with Frampton in the ninth though.
Like you say though this is a quality fight, so I wouldn't be shocked by anything happening. This is one of those where it's good to be a boxing fan!
I'm at a point now where I can barely get enough of this one.
If mundane CCTV footage of Quigg sauntering over to a self service check-out in Tesco to scan himself some bottled water was posted I'd probably watch it . . . mmhm . . . maybe as much as seven or eight times.
Likewise Frampton purchasing himself a Seed & Nut Mix snack pot. Sh*t, I'd even watch Gallagher buying a Twix and a packet of Quavers.
We're playing percentages in terms of the actual difference that could make come fight night. But if it develops into a war, do you think the man who hasn't started to drain at his will in the build up also holds a slight edge, however marginal?
If I am honest, I struggle with this fight.. Carl has the natural skill factor in the pocket, And Quigg is naturally driven. This fight can go either way, And might go down to who is mentally the stronger of the two.
So it might be a valid point with regard to a slight mental edge for Quigg. :boxing:
But then again the skill set might give Carl the edge..
Questions question questions questions- They will be answered shortly :boxing:
Like I've mentioned above, I'm going with Frampton to stop Quigg late if he can implement the kind of game plan that I envision him going in with. The beauty of this fight is that you could make a case for Quigg looking to steam roll Frampton and catching him cold within four if he senses that Carl isn't on point from the off.
It may well just go down to a Frampton points win and that's the safe bet. The fact that we can all discuss this one and envision different outcomes each time is pretty refreshing though considering the bulk of mismatches and build up fights we all have to sit through.
Good post buddy:boxing:
I'm going to go for Quigg as well. I personally think he is to strong for Frampton, But then again Frampton could be elusive all night grrrrrrrrrr.
The mind ponders.. I just hope this fight at least goes into to the later rounds. I think this could possibly ignite into a proper little dust up :boxing:
I hoping so.
This may be wishful thinking 'cause like I said I've become blinded by favouritism but if Frampton boxes too much on the back foot I think he's in trouble. He needs to keep Quigg honest either by hurting him with counters or by engaging with him now and again. If he does the later it could be explosive.
After watching him and his team in the build up I'm questioning whether Frampton can keep his composure if he's forced to trade.
Anyone hear Frampton call Hearn a lanky cunt during the face off? Carl is wound up TIGHT!!!
I think it's obvious that Frampton is struggling with the weight, and as such is making him very aggressive.
I was thinking that. He looked startled at one point by a sound from off stage like his nerves are frayed.
It's always a little disconcerting when you see a fighter acting uncharacteristically pre fight. We'll see how he holds it together at the weigh-in.
Well I'm not too sure what to believe, Frampton said he knew the incident Quigg was referring to and was on the brink of mentioning the fighter in question's name, but failed to elaborate any further. I guess there must be some truth to it, but maybe it was something like a slip or a flash knockdown. I've seen talk of Quigg being delicate around the whiskers and the proof actually being there in some of this fights, apparently Salinas had him rattled with a jab...
But yeah, if Frampton keeps his cool I see him outboxing Quigg for most of the fight but it'll stilll be very close, I think Quigg's an underrated boxer, his movement isn't all that bad and he showed in the Otake fight that he can adapt. I guess we'll see how well he can cut off the ring against Frampton on the backfoot, if he gets him against the ropes and starts whaling those hooks in to head and body we could see Frampton wobbled. I'm an Irishman though and I'll be supporting Frampton to the end, though I believe the psychological edge lies with Quigg. He's got that look in his eyes, unwavering belief...
Gun to the head how does it end for you? Two answers, head and heart
It struck me that it may well be a ruse by Gallagher to bolster his man. Something has happened, as like you say Frampton admitted as much, but if a trainer's feeding his fighter gym rumours about his opponent it suggests that he may not have seen as much as he would have liked in actual fight footage that he feels they can exploit. The gym is where a fighter makes his mistakes and trains his weaknesses. As Norman Mailer once pointed out, Muhammad Ali often looked terrible during sparring sessions. It was that point in the 'Behind The Media Tour' programme where Joe stopped Quigg from saying any more about it at the press conference that made me think everything wasn't entirely above board.
Quigg has no doubt of course. That's what's made me warm to him in part. For a relatively young man he's wonderfully comfortable in who he is, even the aspects of his self that could be read as lacking. Frampton and the McGuigan's have jibed him for his 'lack of intelligence' and the fact that he isn't the most articulate. For his part Scott seems to not care a jot. There's something to be said for simplifying your life and focusing solely on the thing that you love.
Should he lose though seemingly only having one thing in his life could turn out to be a detrement. I'm ever conscious that we've already had a local fighter whose sense of self suffered a symbolic death when he found out he wasn't the fighter that he thought he was. I don't want to see that again. There is enormous pressure on both fighters though. Frampton's the heir apparent to Barry McGuigan. There are a lot of posters on this site that can't fathom just what that entails. Times have changed of course, but that still can't be an easy weight for Carl to shoulder.
This is where my heart is becoming torn as fight night approaches. I like Quigg, he's a local lad and for me he's the slight underdog in this one. Joe Gallagher is possibly the best trainer this country has and that's a great thing for this city. All of those factors draw me to towards them.
But here's the thing. McGuigan was a big deal in my home, as he was in many many others. What he symbolised and what that meant to people both elevated boxing and simultaneously made two men punching each other a rather trivial matter. He was the first boxer I ever followed. He's often visited the college that I once attended to offer those involved in the small boxing programme encouragement and support. Shane is a breath of fresh air for the sport and its commendable to see someone of his age in the position that he's in. Frampton's a great talent and I always lean towards skilled boxers. On top of all that, I've got a good number of friends from Belfast who I think very highly of. Their families have always been unfailingly hospitable whenever I've been fortunate enough to go over there.
So at the moment (subject to change of course!), after reacquainting myself with both their fights, both my head and heart are telling me that after going through the fire Quigg finally gets Frampton to engage as he wants him to later on in the bout. Only he hasn't walked him down as he thinks, he's walked into a trap and gets stopped with a heavy counter.
Quigg should demand that 10% fee back from Gallagher, what a woeful job he did in Quigg's corner.
Frampton was clearly superior and winning the first half without breaking sweat and Gallagher is telling Quigg he's boxing beautifully.
I'm finding it difficult to fathom what just happened there.
Quigg trys to step in. Frampton takes half a step back. Quigg can't close the distance without over reaching and leaving himself vulnerable because he's looking to lead with a power shot.
Eight rounds later and Scott Quigg still hasn't figured or been told to work his way in behind a jab, a few feints, a f*ckin switching of the angle. Nothing. A world title holder?
F*ck.
some nice posts mman. Yeah, Quigg has Frampton rattled for sure, I saw it all through the media tour and I couldn't stop cringing during the gloves are off. The psychology's fascinatin'. Great match-up, Quigg the tougher, fiercer, more born fighter I'd say, he has the mentality, not crippled by sensitivity, Frampton the slicker, more intelligent. Quigg goes to the body so well and you can really hear his punches thud, Frampton with the footwork and jab necessary to keep it on the outside...but like you say, can he stop himself from becoming emotionally engaged? I'm hoping he has an orgasmic moment of rage that culminates in a stunning knockout shot, Quigg flat out on his back. We'll see though lol...
From Framptons perspective I'd like to see him fight composed. That's the key for me. He come unstuck early on against Gonzalez by being overly aggressive and got himself in the kind of trouble that he never really needed to be in.
He's the superior boxer in this one and as a rule of thumb that's what we should be going with. If I but my bias to one side for a moment, Quigg doesn't have the array of punches that Carl has and he doesn't select the ones that he does have anywhere near as well as The Jackel.
Even in a straight up trade of punches in the trenches if Quigg gets ahead of himself (which he often does) then he'll hand the advantage over to his opponent. We've all seen his tendency to square up and swing for the fences with wide hooks. Frampton on the other hand stays tight, comes straight down the pipe and has a beautiful habit of finishing his combos with a stiff left that he often steps into. I can see that putting Quigg on the seam of his pants at least once in this fight.
It pains me to say this but like a lot of Manchester fighters Quigg doesn't have the best head movement. Doesn't really slip punches, he's not that great at parrying them, rather he holds his hands high and hopes to absorb shots on his gloves. That's going to make it difficult for him 'cause Carl hides his follow up shots very well with the various types of jab that he uses. He may well be picked off and broken down before he even has a chance to turn it into a brawl.
In fact the more I think about this fight logically the more difficult it is for me to see Quigg winning! But, he's virtually a local lad so I'm backing him anyway.
What do you make of what Quigg was saying about Frampton being knocked out up in Scotland?
Likely not. Lance Armstrong was exposed. People took the new sh*t that came to light, retrospectively assessed his achievements and formed a new opinion on what had gone before.
For me this just affirms what no amount of acumulated statistics can distract from. Wladimir's safety first over cautious mindset stifled any potential that he had to excel at his craft. He held on for dear life with his stunted skill set in the poorest heavyweight era in living memory.
For others he's a dominant top five of all time P4P long standing champion who couldn't outrun Father Time.
I'd say we need a large volume shift of opinion for it to constitute an exposure. What we have here are hard heads continuing to butt up against each other. Same as yesterday.
World Champions breath in that rarefied air. Walking into their gym and being granted a sparring session isn't going to happen.
Walking into their sauna and gaining a 'mental victory' however is within the realms of possibility!
SAUNA WARS - Where Champions Are Made.
Whilst he openly admits that he was never a natural fighter, I'd hope that the resolve that he showed in clawing his way back from his previous losses and fighting on when even his own brother had told him that maybe it was time to call it a day, coupled with the experience that he's gained since then has equipped him with the mentally to want to gain the titles back. If he tries and falls short, then at least he knows for sure. Even I don't want to see him just pack his bag and leave the sport because he's been beaten by a man his own size. He'd gain my respect for one if got back in there.
Good post. Ten plus years ago he was a great offensive fighter. I remember the first time I saw him I was blown away that a guy his size had that type of arsenal. He's neglected about 75% of his offence in order to win in a really ugly fashion. He had the ability to change the fight last night, he just refused to Entertain the idea. He's had a great run but I'm glad he lost. The only way for him to beat fury is to fight like he did in the 12th, if he's not willing to do that, he should just retire.
I agree. Much like yourself Wlad really made me sit up and take note the first time I saw him fight. The potential there was exciting. Even after the set backs I felt he had the unmolded talent to come back from them and progress as a fighter.
By the time the bell rang to close the twelfth round of the Ibrahimov fight he'd lost me as a fan. The realisation that there wasn't going to be another phase in his development was that disappointing and his conduct and performance in the ring was so poor that that was me. I was out. Other than the odd round I didn't watch him again until he fought David Haye three years later.
To give him his dues I felt that that was a comparatively good performance so in hope I started to watch his fights again. I didn't spring eternal. At one point I found myself thinking that at some point I'll be sat on my death bed rueing the fact that I'd wasted so many hours of life watching this man.
I'd like him to go out with some dignity but like you say if he's not willing to do that then I'd also prefer that he just stays away.
I would be loath to say that about any fighter (and who am I to say that anyway right?), but I've long felt that there has been a certain element of cowardice in the way that Wlad went about rebuilding his career after the stoppages. Part of the reason that I dislike what he does in the ring so much is due to a belief that he has the talent and physical attributes to be so much more than he allowed himself to become.
He jettisoned his potential in order to play it safe. Now to be fair to him, those losses put him in a position where he no longer had the wiggle room to dare to lose. One more and his career could have been done. But after he steadied the ship, as a fan at the time I wanted him to progress from that base. He never did. He stagnated. He was unwilling to develop as a fighter if it entailed risk.
I can partly understand it. He didn't want to lose what he'd managed to claw back then hold on to (literally) for dear life. But last night showed how detrimental that mindset can be. When the time called for him to fight, to be brave in the face of adversity and take risks in order to win he couldn't do it. Maybe he's forgotten how.
Bar a last ditch gesture in the twelfth he gave up the heavyweight championship of the world without a fight.
Whilst I don't want him to win I'd like to see him redeem himself in a rematch by conducting himself in a manner befitting a champion. I don't feel he's done that for most of his reign. My worst opinions of the man are that he's actually somewhat of a bully masking a streak of cowardice that resides within himself.
Last night reaffirmed the lowest opinions that I have of him. I hope he dusts himself off and comes out guns blazing and shows that he can be better than the man that he's allowed himself to become.
Cheers, I don't think he deserves that shot tho, might be a **** enough belt, but theirs still a ranking system
Celebrity guest appearance clause I guess!
It gains the organisation exposure in the short term but how willing would Paulie be to defend the title should he win it? For me, if he wants to carry on boxing he'd do well to stay at that level and see out his career with a European tour as his swansong.
Dropping down a few levels and holding on to a title isn't entirely fair on fighters whose career pinicle would be winning a European belt as it stifles their chances but from Paulie's perspective he can carry on doing the thing he loves without taken punishment from men that he's no longer on par with.
If he's gains a big fight off the back of it though the competitor in him will drop that title in a heart beat and he'll be back at the sports upper echelons taking a beating.
second this. if you're really fighting this guy, make sure you shoot your wad before you get your legs kicked into next week.
I'm imagining Teddy Atlas snarling something similar to Bradley mid-break before sending him back out against Pacquioa:
"WE ARE WAD SHOOTERS! WE LEAVE NOTHING IN THE SACK. NOW GO OUT THERE AND MONEY SHOT THIS GUY!!"
. . . . It's not completely inconceivable.
I've trained in both these forms and in a street fight Muay Thai is far superior. If you're both at a comparable level you're gonna find it very very difficult to beat this man. If he's conditioned and active its not inconceivable that his shins will break whatever part of you they hit. As a man trained in boxing you'll likely have an instinct to block with your arms. If you block a kick with your forearm you're in trouble. If you block one with you're shin (like he would) without the conditioning you're in trouble. If he lands it to your head or ribcage you're in another level of trouble.
Long range and short range you're f*cked if you just box. Stay long he'll blast the sh*t out if you with his legs, come short he'll drop an elbow on you, clutch the back of your neck, rag you off balance then knee you into a pulp.
With that said, he may well be sh*te, and I've known plenty if people in the gym who are not built physically or mentally for a real dustup. They'd fall to pieces no matter how technically good they are. Your second best bet is a fast midrange attack and look to end it quickly. Now I'm not saying you hold the advantage mid range 'cause you don't its just comparatively the weakest point of his game.
You're best bet if you have to fight him is to go tooled up, and if you're not willing to do that out if a moralist sense of conduct then you're gonna have to be the man who is willing to go the furthest. It's a street fight. You've got family and friends who want you to get home safe so all bets are off. You owe this man nothing. And I do mean nothing.
Edit. The SIG caused me to gawp in a state if major distraction so I actually didn't register the above post. You make it sound like it was going to take place in a controlled environment?
Here we go, this is what he had to say about it earlier this year:
"I have an Italian passport but not the necessary amount of fights in Europe to be eligible (five of previous 10). Out of respect for my past accomplishments, the EBU is allowing me this chance because the passport is probably the most important piece of the puzzle.
“I’m very appreciative because I am European by blood. My family emigrated from Italy to New York and I am the first member of my direct family born outside of Italy. I lived there as a child and I feel a very big connection to Europe. Winning that title would make this connection more legitimate to me and to the public.”