I dont give a f*** about bs compubox stats, pactards or inconsistent judges.... we all know Marquez won, the arena knew, Pac knew and so did his corner
And yes ive re-watched the fight... JMM was in control from Round 1 to Round 12
Take your headz out of Manny's ass and give JMM the respect he deserves
Compubox, the official judges, Marquez' marked up face.. Hmm, well maybe b/c it's obviously not clear. If you are going to arbitrarily decide what evidence or variables will not be considered, then the same can be said the other way around.
Forget a few flashy punches, and Marquez fans hurling beer etc etc.
This thread is nonsense.
Tony poppin ALOT of ****. Boy if he whoops cotto's ass after poppin this much **** then he deserves more respect.
I think another advantage people need to respect is.. The only person who really knows how significant an effect Margs wraps tampering was is Margarito. He threw punches with them and without them, so he'll be the only person on the planet who knows exactly how much his punching power will be effected in this fight as opposed to the last one.
Everyone else claiming exactly what effect his wraps will have is guessing, assuming, conjecturing. Margarito actually knows, that's a huge advantage. Cotto will have to adjust to whatever is changed on the fly, Margarito has been training for months with knowledge on any difference in his gloves.
So whether or not you believe Margs' loaded his wraps, it can't be denied that Margarito himself is fully aware in any effects from his current wraps. Win lose or draw, this fight is going to be awesome! FOTY!
Prediction it won't even be a top 3 fight of that day
Wolak vs Rodriguez, Mares vs Agbeko and Jones vs Lujan will be better fights.
Cotto vs Margarito will be an ok fight nothing more. Even the first fight(which was excellent) has become massively overrated.
R.Marquez vs Vasquez 3
JMM vs Pacquiao 2
Froch vs Pascal
all better fights that year
Neither of these fights even had a momentum shift in who was winning the fight. JMM/Pac 2 was also really good, but I have Cotto/Margarito as tops that year.
I've rewatched Wolak vs Rodriguez, and while it was a great FNF. It doesn't even have sustained rewatch value. They kind of get into a messy rhthym that drones.. Pretty exciting on initial watch since you're not sure if either guy will finish the fight, but not so much the second go around. Imo.
Prediction it won't even be a top 3 fight of that day
Wolak vs Rodriguez, Mares vs Agbeko and Jones vs Lujan will be better fights.
Cotto vs Margarito will be an ok fight nothing more. Even the first fight(which was excellent) has become massively overrated.
R.Marquez vs Vasquez 3
JMM vs Pacquiao 2
Froch vs Pascal
all better fights that year
I've rewatched cotto margarito several times. I'm a big Froch fan, and against Pascal was an excellent fight. But the action in cotto/margs one for me was way more entertaining.
Also did you really enjoy Mares agbeko thaat much? I thought it was a good fight, but to just assume the rematch is going to be better.. Sounds like you have something against these guys' matchup.
It will be interesting to see what these guys have left.
I don't think they can do what they did in '08. Both of them are two completely different fighters than they were back then.
I don't think it will be FOTY. I will be ok, but not FOTY.
Pacquiao and one another have taken a notch off of each guy. Which if anything IMO and I know a lot of ppl don't feel this way. Will result in both guys being forced to engage and mix it up even sooner. The only way we don't get fireworks is if Cotto boxes circles for 12 rounds.. I'm not sure Cotto has a 12 round masterpiece in him. Either way, can't wait.
History shows us that a rematch of a first fight is rarely good as the first one.
http://www.boxingscene.com/forums/showthread.php?t=518193
^^^Thread I made months ago explaining why I don't think the rematch will be as good as the first one and give several examples of rematches throughout history to validate my theory.
I'm not saying it'll be boring, I'm just saying it won't be AS GOOD as the first one.
Whatever the case, the fact that it'll most likely have a packed Madison Square Garden means the fight will have the kind of crowd reactions that can pump the fighters and make it seem better than a fight actually is.
I still don't think the fight will be the FOTY, though. It'll probably be okay.
Your thread makes a compelling argument. However I think one thing that separates this fight from those you referenced is the public is making a lot of assumptions and there are a lot of unknown variables in this one. It's impossible for these guys to have eachother measured out already.
I think a lot of the reason some of those previous rematches fell short was b/c each respective opponent had one another well measured. I think it's hard for these guys to really anticipate how they will react to eachother b/c it's unclear if Margarito's handwraps being checked will trully result in a decrease in his ability to hurt Cotto, Margarito and Cotto have both taken beatings so it's impossible to know how fresh each is.. Both men will be carrying extra weight compared to the first bout which could ultimately favor one fighter over the other.. Also, this fight isn't being hyped by the media as a continuation from where the first fight left off like many of those referenced were.
You made a lot of sense, but I can see a bunch of reasons this fight might still deliver. Fingers crossed I'm right!
Can't believe more people aren't shocked about the outcome of this fight!!
"WHEN YOU BEAT A LEGEND YOU BECOME A LEGEND."
"CONQUERS AUSTRALIA. CONQUERS THE WORLD"
As a boxing fan I have never ceased to be amazed by this sport. But seeing world-beater Danny Green suffer a TKO loss like this...I mean I just never thought in a million years I would be alive to witness such a colossal upset.
By the transitive property, we have a new legend, ladies and gentlemen: Krysztof Wlodarczyk!!
Krysztof Wlodarczyk!! LEGENDARYYYYYY!
You don't think Kirkland Angulo tops all?
Kirkland Angulo arguably has the round of the year. After Angulo punched himself out though, it wasn't really that riveting. It was a guy with energy verse a winded guy. The fight never shifted momentum again. Just several rounds of Angulo getting beat. I can guarantee Kirkland Angulo will not be FOTY.
because once something brakes; it's even more susceptible and vulnerable to brake again...
Arum likes Margarito. He'll have had the necessary conversations to ensure Margarito allowed to continue if that is his wish. And I think we all know Margarito will need to lose eye sight legitimately before he quits in a fight. And if he has Cotto hurt, he might keep fighting despite being blind in an eye.
Margarito will win this fight. It will become apparent that very little if not nothing at all has changed since the first fight in terms of how both men match up very quickly. In a sense, it will be like Pacquiao JMM 3 in that, audiences will quickly be like "Oh wait, so these guys just match up like this.. I probably should have seen this coming.."
You guys like to talk about "earning a shot" but what did Margarito do exactly to earn a title shot against Cotto?
Margarito's career after beating Cotto in 2008 :
-Got demolished by Mosley
-Got suspended for a year
-Beat a B level guy in Mexico
-Got an undeserved title shot against Pacquiao and got demolished again
How is this guy deserving of an immediate shot at Cotto's belt?
Look and carry himself like Tony Montanna in the latest 24/7. Bob Arum seems to look at Margarito like a step son or something. Arum appreciates Margarito's gangster, and it helps to be good friends with one of the most influential businessmen in the sport. Also, there's unfinished business and guaranteed ticket sales. Plus Margarito has an excellent chance of beating Cotto. This fight is awesome. Unless you dont' want to see Cotto give Margarito to redeem himself. Which is a very fair position.
I think it's going to be pretty much a repeat of the last fight. Cotto starts well and there is a turning point and we will all see it, when Cotto's eyes show us the body punches are ripping away his wind
This is along the lines of how I see it. The big question is.. If Margarito gets the best of Cotto and does knock him down. Will he urge Cotto to get back up like in the Cintron fight? I think Margarito is not going to be particularly gracious if he gets his way. I think a wink from the bad eye in the post fight interview would be in order.
Cotto knows the mistakes he made the first fight and im sure his working on not running out of gas on the later rounds.. his doing things his never done before with this trainer and alot of it is for not running out of gas... We have to be complete honest to ourselves Margarito was wearing plaster for the Cotto fight, thats more than clear... lets just see how margarito is going to do without plaster this time i hope he did a Shiet load of strength training to backup his liesss!! 1st fight Cotto was going for the KO and for this rematch i would just stick to outboxing margarito like he did last time 1-6 rounds and his got this..
Even in the Clottey fight Cotto was looking winded for roughly half the fight. I know he had a bad cut, but he wasn't even being pressured that hard and he looked somewhat spent.. I think Cotto may have questionable endurance in fights where his opponent can take his punches. A huge detail in this fight will be Cotto's stamina. I haven't seen anything recently to suggest his endurance has progressed in a big way.
Its simple for me. I believe Marg chjeated the first fight. I don't believe his punches will have the same effect on Miguel. I think Cotto boxes Marg's ass off then finishes him off rd 10 or 11.
I think Cotto would have punched himself out throwing at Margarito even if Margarito was hitting Cotto less than the first fight. Leaving Margarito in a position where he simply need flurry and land some good finishing punches..
When Cotto throws big flashy punches, it almost hurts himself more than it does damage to Margarito.
danrafaelespn Dan Rafael
@jumanji37 LOL. Top Rank & MSG have added extra security to the event to make sure everything is safe & sound. No tolerance for that stuff.
A riot is free publicity. Bad move on Arum's part letting them do that!
First 5-6 rounds Cotto has a boxfest... same as before... then we will see if Margarito is SHOT, or if he's still the same.. and if Cotto is in better shape this time around, or if he's the same.
Just looking at the press conference from earlier today. Even at 154, Margarito looks like he belongs at a different weight class. His frame is such that he naturally puts Cotto at a physical disadvantage. At one point I was a bit concerned the added weight would result in Cotto being more solid and almost growing.. Kind of like Ortiz after his move from 140 to 147. I don't think that's the case. I think Margarito will just flat out make Cotto look small, which plays directly into his advantage.
I have a feeling it'll be just as good as the first one, if that's the case then we got a TOP 3 candidate for sure.
Btw, OUBFN is King Money Gorilla Dog Z gonna call out the winner?
Bawse Charlie Zelenoff doesn't waste his time with has been welter weights. Charlie has natural plaster in his fists, to the tune of 5,000 PSI. Only the very elite and preferrably above Cruiserweight however he will allow Mayweather Jr to avenge his father.
Mayweather will make Pacquiao pay for all his mistake. Marquez is slower and he made Pacquiao paid.
Yes this is true. However it took JMM 3 fights to really have Pacquiao fully timed. People are mistaken if they don't think Mayweather is going to have to get comfortable adn adjust to the way Pacquiao attacks and his speed/ strange punches.
Mayweather will begin the fight with zero prior experience of Pac's speed. Marquez had a huge advantage having already fought 24 rounds with him.
http://espn.go.com/boxing/story/_/id/7241680/ranking-top-pound-pound-boxers-nos-1-3
So everyone knows that ESPN HATES Floyd Mayweather Jr...well atlest some of there host, and he has been called cowardly by many of them.
But why do you see that Pacquiao was REMOVED from #1 P4P and Floyd was put there? without even a fight.
Do you think they can see how easy of a fight it would be for Floyd Mayweather, or how Pacquiao struggled or even got beat by Marquez?
I think it's a move based completely on conjecture. Mayweather's last fights were against a shot Mosley whom Pacquiao beat even more impressively, and a 4 round fight with Ortiz that ended controversially. It's impossible to know how the fight would have completed down the stretch.
I can understand the logic, but it's a huge decision. And in my opinion a rash and foolish one.
And Clottey is underrated he will beat Chavez, Chavez's skills are primative.
Clottey averages how many punches per round? I think it will be competitive, but I don't think he can knock JCC JR out. And if it goes to a decision, Clottey's workrate isn't high enough to dethrone a cash cow or dinero vaca.
UBF Reporting-
We're gonna act like Pac didn't DESTROY all of his opponents besides Marquez the past 6 years?
We're gonna act like Pac didn't demolish guys Floyd was scared to fight? (Cotto, Maragarito).
We're gonna act like Pacquiao didn't knock out MAB, crush him again, knock out Morales twice, make De la Hoya and Hatton look like they've never stepped foot in a ring before (and sent them in to retirement), make Cotto and Marg look like rag dolls, knock down and dominate Mosley, etc.?
We're gonna act like Pacquiao has just been cherry picking fighters, hand picking opponents or whatever.. BUT NOT MAYWEATHER?
We're gonna act like the ONE guy, a HOF'er and top P4P fighter currently that's proven to be his kryptonite, and is perfectly suited to neutralize Pac's style arguably beating him means that everything Pacquiao has done means NOTHING?!
Seriously when I came to Boxingscene I was expecting to see intelligent unbiased posts from people that know Boxing, for the most part.
Instead all I see is people with blatant Manny hate even more so then Floyd hate. You guys leaving Pacquiao off top 5, top 10, even top 15 lists now?! Are you ****ing kidding me? You need to never form another opinion pertaining to boxing for that blasphemy. You guys don't realize that you're just as bad if not worse then some of these clueless Pactards.
I know most of you guys used to be Pac fans before this whole thing blew up too. And I can see how annoying it can get watching some of these Pactards spew out some utter nonsense (some guys in the live thread had it 12-0 and 10-2 for Pacquiao?!) here and there but to discredit Pacquiao and everything he's done? C'mon...
And to call out Pacquiao for **** but letting everything for Mayweather slide?
The bias is sickening.
Boxing fans are one giant reactionary angry mob.
I'm tired of watching him fight bums. Baldomir, Hatton, Gomez, common man seriously! I know he's young but he needs to step up at some point. I want to see him fight a Lara, Kirkland, Molina, etc. I want to see if this guy is for real or not...
He's not for real. Slow footed, relies solely on his power. Very talented, but he is not P4P.
....To be in Margarito's Locker room when he's getting his hands wrapped?
LMAO!..I've read this somewhere just don't know if it's true, apparently he's being advised to ask him to be in there watching Margarito get his hands wrapped since he's 2 for 2 when questioning boxers' hand wraps.
This would be real dumb unless it's just to piss Margarito off..
age is a sad excuse if you ask me, Wilfredo Benitez fought Cervantes at 17 years old goddamnit
I know he is the exception to the rule, but come on, they gave the kid a belt, now it's time to act like a champion and fight the best out there
I do believe they intend to match him with a top juniormiddle after Cintron, but I may be wrong
He better be focused on beating Cintron. This could be an upset.
You know what carma is...
When JMM demands more than 50%, location, and...... and...... and...... BLOOD TESTS!
If Pac walks away, we ALL know why.
Because he can make more money fighting Mayweather. Both Mayweather and Marquez are stylistic nightmares for him. And the fans would prefer the Mayweather fight anyway, so I don't think pacquiao or the fans lose if he goes with Mayweather. The only who would lose would be JMM, who has proven in the past he knows f*** all about the business end.
Pac is the golden goose regardless of a little controversy. If JMM walks, he has nowhere to go and he can't make nearly the bank.