it is the most anticipated fight make no mistake.
Tyson Holyfield 2 was probably the biggest fight in my lifetime.
Truth is, once MMA gained popularity there are no boxing matches that reach the anticipation level of the old school days before MMA.
There were many Ali, Tyson, and Holyfield matches that were bigger than Wilder/Fury.
count how many times/take a shot whenever Evander says "The thing about it is.." or "My momma always told me....."
He sounds like Forrest Gump when he talks about his momma lol.
Another one he kept saying "THEN ALL OF THE SUDDEN..."
Loved the Cecil Collins story. An honest story of Holyfield being scared.
Tyson Holyfield 2 was HUGE. Everybody I know who's remotely into boxing was watching it live. Everybody remembers where they were when Tyson had Holyfield's ear for lunch. Was one of the most shocking things ever witnessed on live TV. The Space Shuttle Challenger disaster and 911 are the only 2 things I can think of that were more shocking on live TV. (I'm not old enough for the JFK stuff)
I dunno about that, lots of Floyd and Pac fights did big numbers, Canelo/GGG did well etc. I agree that boxing as a whole isnt as big now as it was in the 90s and earlier, but I think the correlation with boxings decline and what MMA has been doing in the meantime tends to be overstated. Its not like MMA fights get much hype usually either, and certainly never on the level that old school boxing did.
Well my point is that prior to MMA gaining popularity, the heavyweight boxing champion was considered the baddest man on the planet. That's not really the case anymore.
The biggest fights have always been the baddest man on the planet vs the other baddest man on the planet.
There are several alleged "greats" who if you really look at their skills, they are not special. Marciano, Joe Louis, Julio Cesar Chavez are 3 people who come to mind for me.
It's one thing to watch them, it's another to get in the ring with them.
There's a reason why those 3 won almost every time. Something you'll likely never understand unless you go back in time and get into the ring with them. All 3 were frigging good!
Douglass was also knocked out in that fight and should've been counted out
I was waiting for a token Tyson apologist to show up.
Douglas was fine after his knockdown. He smacked the ground in frustration then got up. His eyes were clear and the ref let the fight continue.
Tyson on the other hand was knocked silly, wobbled, and couldn't get his mouth piece in by the time the ref hit the 10 count.
As others have said, Douglas won fair and square. Stop with the excuses.
Which begs the question, should knockdowns be timed and not counted by the refs? There's a wide range of ten counts based on refs, fight etc. Maybe the ref counts based on a clock to eliminate the disparity? Just thinking out loud lol.
Even at the end of a count the referee can look at the figher's eyes and tell if he can continue or not. We've all seen refs count to 10 look at a figher, and allow them to continue. The count is only to give the fighter a short grace period to recover and for the ref to determine if the figher is ok or not.
The ref looked at Douglas and saw that he could continue.
Tyson was falling over with his mouth piece hanging out of his mouth. Could not continue.
The ref made the right call. Tyson lost. The WBA, WBO, and IBF never agree on anything but they all agreed that Tyson lost. Even Tyson knows he lost.
Beterbiev#1 seems to be the only one in denial.
Oh yeah, and as far as your theory of Douglass being fine after he got up, that's also false. The bell rung as soon as he got up. Anyone that knows Tyson knows that Douglass wouldn't have lasted another 30 seconds. It's all water under the bridge.
Douglas looked at the ref and gave the ok that he was ready to go.
Tyson did not:
https://i.imgur.com/7JR9Y2f.gif
Once again, Douglas won fair and square. Even most Tyson fans will admit that Douglas was much more motivated and better prepared for the fight than Tyson was.
Despite what you "say" video evidence proves that Douglass was on the ground for 13-15 seconds.
Bottom line, Douglas was fine and could continue after the count.
Tyson was not fine and could not continue after the count.
Your boy lost. Get over it.
Here's the deal. I can count to 10 and take 20 seconds doing it or I can count to 10 and take 8 seconds doing it. I can count to 10 and take 10 seconds doing it. The count pace is supposed to be at the pace of actually seconds; hence, 10 count. The ref should come as close as possible, I'm sure they went to referee school to learn how to count to 10 in boxing seconds.
Either way. Douglass was on the ground for 13-15 seconds which constitutes a knockout
Dude. Douglas was not unconscious. He was watching the count and got up at 8 as his corner probably instructed him to do.
Tyson was OUT.
Don King lost a lot of future money with the Tyson lost so he protested about the "long count". All 3 organizations WBA, WBO, and IBF reviewed the footage and declared Buster Douglas the unified champ. Congrats for siding with a bogus Don King claim.
Watch the fight. Even if there were no knockdowns Douglas wins this fight on the judges cards.
Tyson was beat that night. He lost. GET OVER IT!
Was Ali really defensive?
In the 60's his defense was probably the best ever for a HW. Great head movement, great footwork. Here's a profile of his defensive techniques:
As time went on he lost his speed and started getting hit a lot more. By the 80's he was a punching bag.
Overall my vote goes to Willie Pep
I respect your opinion , but george didn't exactly dominate and stop one top heavyweight in his second run
During his second run there weren't many heavyweights that took the fight to George cuz they were wary of his power. Cooney did and got KO'd hard in 2. Bert Cooper did and quit on his stool after 2. Qawi is a warrior with no quit in him until Foreman made him quit in the 7th. Note that I don't think Tyson has the heart that Qawi does. Holyfield traded with Foreman some but only if he thought Foreman was hurt. Holyfield ended up eating some nasty shots that would have put most heavyweights down though.
The most amazing thing about George's 2nd run is that he was never knocked down once facing many former champions. George's 2nd coming might have had the best chin in heavyweight history.
Here goes nothing .....this is off the dome and my list changes often but here goes nothing :
1. Muhammad ali . This is a no brainerd for me . He and Louis are neck in neck but ali fought in a better era and beat more hof / Olympic medalists which means alot for me . No 1 to the goat 10 out of 10 times for me .
2. Joe Louis. Need I say more ??the nicest right hand I have ever witnessed . A still historic run of 25 defences that hasnt been beaten to this day . Joe was something special and he helped changed the sport and the world and would have been more appreciated if a young man named Cassius clay never laced up .
3. Larry holmes . I know I will catch flack for this , but larry had it all and I cant hate on him for being born in alis shadow and being born when he was . Larry head to head is a tough fight for any heavy in history. He has the best jab all time or right up there . A rock solid chin , what more can u ask for from holmes except for him to born earlier .
4. George foreman - as I type this I feel like george should be number 3 but then I remember that head to head I'd have to pick larry 8 outta 10 times . But other than that , George's resume speaks for itself . He is without a doubt a top 5 heavy .
5. Lennox lewis - head to head on his best night lennox is pretty much unstoppable , he fought every top fighter in his way and beat everyone of them . Lennox is insanely under rated . Altho on these forums I feel he does get his due .
6.evander holyfield - do I really need to say much about this guy?? Not only is he an all time great heavy bar none , he is the cruiserweight goat. Altho he picked up some losses he was never in a full fight and I never seen this man dominated in his prime or even on the tail end of said prime .
7. Jack Johnson- the original trailblazer and fought well beyond his era skill wise . This man changed the world and his story and record tell everything needed to know .
8. Rocky Marciano- the only undefeated all timer . Altho he came up in a horrendous era it is def. Under rated these days,and the fact that the rock fought everyone counts for soemthing .
9.jack Dempsey- the manaussa mauler . The first aura of invincibility and a true story or rags to riches . Maybe not the best technically but he still changed the way the sport was viewed and was a savage man.
10. Sonny liston - another man in the shadow of the goat . Sonny liston was a god damned monster . Arguably the best jab ever , a straight power shot and the liston who annihilated Cleveland William's could beat any human on that night .
Honorable mention : jersey joe ( crime.inally underrated thos who know , know ....mike tyson ( obvious reasons ) , riddick bowe ( the bowe who beat holy I would have a hard time picking against vs any man in history that was a special performance ) , wlad Klitschko ( honestly I just hated watching this cream puff ,seeing a scared heavyweight champ will never sit well with me ,but his record speaks for itself ). And anyone I forgot my bad again I did this off the top of my head . Iam sure iam missing some stuff . I've been hit alot lol .
Another good list. 1-2 are obvious choices. The order for those 2 is probably personal preference. 3-5 is a tough call but it's hard to argue against the 3 you put there. Again just not sure what order to put them in.
Qawi was the closest one to Tyson’s style he fought and was getting tagged a lot ,Qawi is half the size of Tyson . If Ruddock couldn’t budge Tyson with left hooks that were fast
1. Qawi fought in the heavyweight division against Foreman. Tyson is not a big heavyweight. Half the size of Tyson? No. Just looked it up, Qawi was over 220 in that fight.
2. Did you really just compare Razor Ruddock's punching power to George Foreman's? Here, let me introduce you to George Foreman. You don't seem to know him very well.
Many if not most boxing experts and former fighters rank Foreman as the 2nd hardest puncher in the history of boxing after only Earnie Shavers.
Holyfield said that Foreman hit him harder than anyone. And he's fought a lot of great fighters and power punchers.
Another old school boxer (maybe Ali?) compared Frazier and Foreman's power. They said getting hit by Frazier was like getting hit by a Cadillac at 60mph. Getting hit by Foreman was like getting hit by a semi truck at 45mph.
And Foreman negates a lot of his opponent's speed with grappling maneuvers. Especially someone with Tyson's style.
Once again, styles make fights.
I don't care who struggles with who and who knocks who else out fast. It doesn't matter. It's one style vs another style. And Foreman's style is the worst possible matchup for Tyson. Tyson would last longer against prime Ali or prime Joe Louis than he would against young or old Foreman. Not because Foreman is better than Ali or Louis, because his style is such a perfect counter for Tyson's. Watch Foreman vs Frazier 1 to see what I mean.
Dont care how long Joe Louis was champ, the level of opposition he had was terrible. He wouldn't have been a champ in Ali's era.
Interesting to hear these 2 guys debate this topic...
Foreman didn't invent the big man game , Johnson and Liston did .Foreman was taught by Liston before he even turned pro
I would have loved to watch the Liston vs Foreman sparring matches even though Liston was past his prime and Foreman hadn't reached his yet. Foreman said that Liston was the only guy he ever fought that could make him back up.
Prime Liston vs Prime Foreman... someone might die if that happened. Heavy leather would be thrown.
i don;t think tyson or holyfield made as much in purses as floyd did, for example. inflation, no al haymon looking out for them, etc. floyd may go down as the best paid boxer of all time, form the look of it.
Agree.
I think Tyson's financial woes were mainly caused by 2 words: Don King.
I think Holyfield's financial woes were mainly caused by another 2 words: Child support.
Foreman wins. His style was all wrong for Tyson. He was big and he used wrestling tactics to control smaller opponents. Frazier charged in on him like Tyson would and Foreman kept pushing him off balance and clubbing him. And that was young Foreman. Old Foreman was even smarter and even bigger. There is an excellent video that shows how Foreman's style was kryptonite for guys like Frazier and Tyson. Search for "foreman frazier breakdown" on youtube.
that man was too potent. hoes got pregnant just by looking at the real deal and that shining bald head of his.
He loved him some women. I've seen him sitting on his stool between rounds checking out the ring card girls in the middle of a big fight.
https://i.imgflip.com/3ngnxr.jpg
Being an ATG goes beyond in the ring sometimes , Ali was way more polarizing figure and dominated his own 60's era who were better fighters in a shorter list but then who Louis had to fight wasn't exactly killers he should have not taking any L's to anyone but the more you fight the more prone a loss is going to come . Ali didn't take any L's lucked out in one fight but remained undefeated in the 60's . Ali changed the sport and was the first to really use the old time wrestling gimmicks ,became a national hero and transended into a media superstar so much hed celebrity boxing matches, wrestled in WWE and fought in an real MMa type fight in japan,he was all over the place ,he was the first guy to do all this.
Anyones list is subjective ( unless you had IKE listed at 3.) but I would put Ali at one for reasons listed.
Oh I thought we were doing best all-time boxer not best all-time boxing entertainer.
Tyson would body old george foreman like a grown man a five year old child. It's just how it is, tyson was too fast, hit too hard, and was just too good at the end of the day.
Tyson was fast. Whoop dee doo. Pretty much all of Foreman's opponents were faster than him.
Joe Frazier was the undefeated champion of the world with a style similar to Tyson's. Frazier had already beaten Muhammad Ali and most of his wins were early round knockouts.
George Foreman beat him down like it was a grown man vs a five year old child.
Your analogy is backwards. Foreman was bigger and stronger than Tyson. Tyson got pushed around by Holyfield and Foreman had previously pushed Holyfield around. Foreman would keep Tyson off balance then club him until he eats the canvas.
Oh, and Holyfield said that old man Foreman hit him harder than anyone. Harder than Tyson, harder than Bowe, harder than Lewis, etc...
No way does a young up n coming tyson lose to any version of george foreman.
Wow... you are sooo wrong. Foreman LOVED to fight guys like Tyson. He feasted on Frazier twice and made Qawi and Bert Cooper quit. It was the tall guys with a good jab and great boxing skills that gave Foreman trouble (Ali, Holyfield). Short aggressive swarming fighters could be served to Foreman on a platter.
Young or old George beats any version of Tyson and it's not really a contest. Tyson would be down in 3 rounds or less.
As for George not taking the Tyson fight, I call BS on that. Foreman was on Letterman and other places calling out Tyson back in the day. It was Tyson that ducked Foreman, not the other way around.
“No! I ain’t fightin’ that animal! If you love him so much, you fight him!”
- Tyson to Don King in 90 or so.
1. Joe Louis - Obvious choice. He had the most consecutive title defenses of all time and world war 2 prevented him from making the record even more unobtainable. He did it in an era where there was one title belt.
2. Muhammad Ali - Ended up being the best fighter of the best era of heavyweights, won the heavyweight title three times during a time before it was easy to win a title.
3. George Foreman - would be the greatest heavyweight of all time if he had beaten Ali. Was a killer heavyweight champion in the best era of heavyweights and then won the lineal heavyweight championship in what is arguably the second best era of heavyweights at an advanced age.
4. Jack Johnson - It’s easy to imagine what he could have done if he fought in an era that was so dictated by race.
5. Rocky Marciano - 49-0 as a heavyweight with an underrated resume.
6. Jack Dempsey - reigned as heavyweight champion for 7 years and his one loss early in his career might have been fixed.
7. Gene Tunney - 65-1-1 record, defeated the one fighter who beat him multiple times and beat Jack Dempsey. He would be ranked much higher if he didn’t retire so soon after his win over Dempsey.
8. Larry Holmes - started 48-0 so he basically matched Marciano and made 20 consecutive title defenses.
9. Lennox Lewis - This is where things get really difficult to separate. I’ll go with Lewis here because he did eventually prevail as the undisputed champion when all the dust from the 90s cleared, even though it technically happened after the 90s. He also beat everyone he faced in his career.
10. Joe Frazier - I’m not mad at anyone who puts Tyson, Holyfield, Liston, Klitschko or anyone of the other great names in this spot. I’m going with Frazier because he beat everyone he faced except for George Foreman. His four losses only came to two men, Foreman and Ali. He also had a decently long reign as champion.
Much respect to that list. I admit I don't know enough about the pre-Joe Louis era guys.
It seems like Tyson fans don't give Dempsey, Liston, and Foreman the respect they deserve for being the OG killers.
And Ali fans don't give Louis the respect he deserves for being the OG GOAT.