MaksBox

Awesome, thanks for bringing to my attention. He lives in the states now? who is training him?

I am not the biggest Canelo fan, but from what I see, he will have a fairly straight forward time with Bud. Keep in mind it is Canelo. He is fighting someone naturally way smaller. If he can't catch bud cleanly, he just has to throw his power into the body or even his shoulder. lol. Canelo by brute force. Bud can play cat and mouse for a while, but the longer the fight goes on, the more likely Canelo will land on Bud cleanly and Canelo certainly knows how to close a fight.

LOL. Spot on! Broner that low life.

WTF... 118-110 canelo?

You made me do the digging. Here you go. http://hosted.rightprospectus.com/IvyFunds/Fund.aspx?dt=SAR&cu=8904&ss=IF Click on Annual Statement Scroll down. Media Holdings Group is the investment in PBC. We know that Ivy owns at least 5% of the company. Media Group Holdings LLC, Series H 8-29-13 to 10-31-13 640 448,211 60,093Media Group Holdings LLC, Series I 4-23-13 to 11-8-13 381 209,901 151,166Media Group Holdings LLC, Series T 7-2-13 to 1-23-15 80 172,543 110,007 They put in $830,655,000 and now value their investment as worth only... 321,266,000. So W&R, at least the Ivy Asset Strategy fund is sitting on a paper loss of $509 million. the majority of the first investment has been written down. The second two, not yet. What were the terms of those deals? No clue... private company and I do not have access to those investment documents.... but if the first series was marked down, odds are... that money has been burned through. The only facts we do know... PBC took in at least $800 billion from W&R.... and W&R does not believe, at least their first investment is profitable. It is quite possible... all of that money has already been spent and nothing to show for it. The disclosure does say that the fund has not been paid ANY dividends or distributions from those investments over the last 12 months.

This is the part that seems sketchy to me.. The money invested by Waddell is less than 1% of their holdings.. Even if they lose everything in PBC, it's still only less than 1% of holdings and should have no impact on the bottom line. From what I have read, Waddell stock price and value has dropped over 18%, which means a lot of their other bigger investments has gone south. There is no way for Pbc to cause that big of a drop. I think the lawsuit is legit, just that boxing progandaists are spinning this like it's all the doing of PBC, when in fact there is a lot more wrong at Waddell which is the primary cause of the lawsuit. Pbc might be highlighted as an example, but I'm sure it's just a minor piece of evidence, and nothing criminal or malicious towards investors. All Waddell has to say is that ufc just sold for 4 billion and lost lots of money early,, pbc was on the same course No not at all. You are confusing two different issues. The money Wadell & Reed, in this case IVY funds has invested in PBC and other investments is not Wadell's money... it is investor's money that Wadell & Reed is managing. So...for example, 100 million in investments raised from investors, W&R let's say makes 1% on. Their earnings are only 1 mil. The company may only be worth 2 or 3... etc. Ie the money you have in your bank.... is not your bank's money.... they only make money on loaning it out etc. Hedge Funds and Mutual funds make money on management fees and performance fees on the money that they manage. So W&R LOST not their own money per say, but their investor's money that they were managing for them. Investors are claiming it was a fraudulent and unsuitable investment. Those reports are ALL public filings and all legit. (yes, I work in finance.)

Here are the full tweets from the guy who posted the tweet. Not from whomever wrote that article. Waddell's alleged investments into Al Haymon's corp entities seem to have $301M fair value on 6/30. Appeared to lose $434M over last year.— Paul Gift (@MMAanalytics) August 8, 2016 @heynottheface The supposed $925M into Media Group Holdings. Is that what you mean? Or into PBC itself?— Paul Gift (@MMAanalytics) August 8, 2016 @heynottheface From that lawsuit, everything reads like PBC is major component, but who knows for sure.— Paul Gift (@MMAanalytics) August 8, 2016 @AdamTBV Can't say just off financial reports. But fair value losses seemed to pick up steam since April 2015.— Paul Gift (@MMAanalytics) August 9, 2016 Yep, all of that info comes from public SEC filings. They (W&R) invested for the funds into PBC/holdings group. They now value those investments at far lower values. While it is still a "paper loss", because PBC is a private company, we do not know the actual financial. The only estimate that we get is by what W&R values their investment holdings. If W&R, who does see the financials... (hopefully), believed the company was a profitable investment... they would not be writing down their investments. Because PBC is a private investment... in reality... PBC may not even be providing W&R and other investors ANY audited financials, and W&R is merely going off of what they can find. It is just as likely W&R is merely guessing the value and they may never see the money back again. (hence the crux of the lawsuits.... private company, with no operating history, undisclosed relationship to investment manage, completely counter to what the fund supposedly was to be investing in)

I read that story you posted and it said two other similar lawsuits have been thrown out. It also said PBC is less than 1%. Why are they specifically targeting PBC if the rest of investments are losing more money? And why does the amount invested keep going up? Last year it was said half a billion was invested now they seem to say one billion was invested PBC makes up 1% of the fund, and hence it was thrown out because it is insignificant to the fund. The lawsuits are specifically because even though it was 1% of the fund... the fund manager Should of not make those in the first place... and did not disclose his affiliation with Hayman. Their stock is down for other reasons though... in any case... it's not about the fund per say... but rather than PBC has been a really ****ty investment.

... and this is the guy who made those investments. https://www.linkedin.com/in/ryan-caldwell-8780a511 In short... He managed the funds, invested close to $1 billion in PBC. Did not disclose prior relationship with PBC and Hayman. Then he "quits".... and goes to work for Hayman as an advisor. So that is why investors are pissed.... (even though it was only about 1% of the fund's assets).... it was arguably an unsuitable, high risk investment with questionable motives.

I really hope the fight does happen. I was already let down with Wilder/Povetkin and the opportunity to see Wilder exposed as a can opener. Unlike Wilder, I actually like Ward for his good boy behavior and ability to speak proper english. lol. In any case, I do think Ward's biggest asset at this point in his Zero loss...., just look at all of the "he has not lost since he was 13' comments on here. What we do know is that Ward will never be superstar, and his only way to keep earning his few million per year, if he stays active, is to keep his Zero loss. By fighting cans the level of Wilder's competition, and yes, even GGG's Wade (albeit he was a mandatory. lol), Ward can keep on collecting small paychecks and try to milk his career as long as he can, to eventually cash out one day against someone he has no chance, or little chance against, ie GGG, Adonis, or even Canelito if he moves up) Fighting Kovalev at this point.... is a HUGE risk to him and his career. If he wins... yes, he gets that extra win and a payday... but he still has not fought GGG or Adonis, and even as the new LHW champ... Will he fill up arenas? No, I don't think so. If he Loses... he gets that 1 on his record... and he is as good as done., except for a much anticipated fight against GGG, but his career at LHW would be over. Put it this way... Looking at Ward's last five years.... if he had a loss on his record... would anyone give a **** about him anymore? His stock would plummet. So as much as I would love to see Ward/Kovalev... If I was his manager... I would do anything I can to build up the hype, then pull out.... let the fight marinate more...., cash in a few more bums before fighting Kovalev or Stevenson. If there is a loss, then put it all into a fight with GGG, again, marinate it.... and even with the loss.... he will be able to take home a few million. Then he can become a boxing commentator, open up his own gyms, etc. Fighting a guy who would KO your last 2 competitors in the first 3 rounds that took you 12 rounds? that is just too much risk.

I thought that was a great discussion. Thanks for posting it here.

That would be Bob Arum and Top Rank. Al paying his fighters well seems to be an issue with many of you so-called fans...if only boxing could get rid of Al and go back to shafting the fighters.:lol1: Bob has had is offices raided by the FBI Bob has been fined for making illegal payments Bob has been investigated for buying rankings. You can pay them well, but it does not mean it is profitable or sustainable. Eventually the money will run out , and others will have to b conned into giving al money for his lifestyle. Overpaying now is only hurting th sport long term by setting up unrealistic expectations

Can't believe I agree with Floyd. lol. It is true... Ward may be a talented fighter, but his brand is nearly worthless.

In reality, I think Haymon and PBC blew more than $500 million or more. The money was put into the company as an investment... not a loan. The $430 million loss (in just 1 fund) was a write down of the investment of what they think their share of PBC is worth.... Quite frankly, PBC may be Billions in the whole, but they are still valuing the brand at some value... that comes to the $500 million they have left. They have not yet marked down the second and third round they invested in... so the other shoe will drop soon. No one knows the true amount of how much PBC makes or losses outside of investors, and I don't know if W&R will disclose that, or if they even have any statements. The will need a lot more money to keep up their charade, but eventually the investors will start demanding a return on their investment. None of it so far looks like PBC is being run for profits.... and merely took money from investors to finance their own lifestyles and putting on a few boxing matches.

so if the fight does not happen, do you get your money back? Hoping to be in vegas for the fight.

Povetkin should fight in the USA since he cheated Prove that he cheated before running your mouth. Wada says he is Clean. Wait for WBC. Beyond that as Panda said.... It does not matter what he or Povetkin wants... the only thing that matters is which promoter is willing to put up the most money. Sometimes I wish Boxers stick to boxing and leave the business to those who actually get them paid. I really think Wilder has no ****ing clue about science or business.

Here is a good summary of the lawsuits. http://www.courthousenews.com/2016/04/28/investors-furious-at-money-put-into-boxing.htm

If $925m has been committed and $430m spent, what has happened to the rest of the money? Are the funds frozen? or is Haymon waiting for the lawsuits to be dismissed to regain access to those funds? In all likelyhood all 900 million was spent. The $430 million loss is what W&R values their investment loss was. We really don't know how much PBC has lost or not because they are not a public company and do not disclose their financials.

Does stink of collusion, But i don't think its a terrible idea,, there is huge potnential in boxing and could have easily been worth billions of dollars in the future. Unfornately the execution and strategy were wrong. The idea wasn't bad, just the management of it. Especially if you're only spending less than 1%, little risk but huge rewards in the grand scheme of things. PBC should have tried to be like UFC, instead it's the same old boxing politics just on a different channel Honestly, we need more great fights that EVERYONE talks about... and that is not happening much anymore. Everyone tuned in to watch Tyson. The Pinoy community all stand behind Pacman. Right now? I don't think in the United States. In England you do have what seems to be a ressurgence. In Russia, Putin is investing a LOT of money into boxing schools. etc. Name a great American champion? Wilder? 99% of Americans have never heard that name. With PBC... I value what they were trying to do. Unfortunately, as others have said, piss poor execution. Overpaid for fights and Haymon seemingly used investor money to fund his own lifestyle. :lame:

This will be a great fight in any case. +1 for Brook wearing a suit. lol. can't stand the t-shirt thing. I do agree with the number of other posters here... you have two truly skilled boxers here. Weight should not be much of an issue... besides, GGG is not pulling a Canelo and coming in 180 + on fight night.

Link please?

you know.... Wlad should take the fight anyway.... .... you know... Boxing ratings are suffering... here is an idea. Create a division where you can take any PEDs you want. Nothing off limits. lol. I bet you lots more will turn in to watch that ****.

King Kong is available make it happen For the king of the roids belt?

Honestly, it is because there is not anyone, beyond Andre Ward, that you can legitimately root for besides Kovalev at the top levels. Stevenson? PLEASE.... that criminal. Versus GGG, you actually have a HUGE amount fighters that are competing at his level... naturally, that will create more GGG haters. ie... you don't see a lot of Lebedev haters here...? why? Because who the hell else is actually good in the cruiser weight division? lol. Floyd, Pac, Canelo, Fury, Wlad, Joshua.... you have lots of people that love them.... and you have even bigger haters. GGG is just the latest to join that club. Will Kovalev join that club? Likely as we get closer to November and that will draw out more xenophobes, and others who support those closer to their race or religion. Personally, as someone participated as an amateur in martial arts... I can respect any good fight and any fighter that plays it straight. That is why I am looking forward to Kovalev vs Ward. Unfortunately, Boxing is at the cross roads where in order to get more people to tune in, you need to create more of a show.... hence why UFC is as big of a deal.... much more brutal.... blood sells.

HEHE... Canelo is ABOVE any weight class... Pft... Don't people know... with Canelito weight class is not even in the picture. Canelo is A side and above all boxing rules. lol. Although this would be a terrific fight.... although I can imagine Canelo coming in at 180 on fight night. lol.

the vast majority of Vegas visitors do not rent a car. Your vegas experience is to get buzzed before the fight, get **** faced after, then go gamble and party. Having to go OUT to Tmo.... not as convenient as sitting at the local bar. Hence why MGM fights are successful.

Probably even with a 36 year old Povetkin. Seriously? Have you watched any of Povetkin's recent fights? Since getting a new trainer, he works full time on his conditioning, even when not getting ready for the next fight. Follow his fan club pages on VK.com and you will see the photos and videos.

You literally made this thread after finding out Stiverne vs Povetkin was being made and you commented in that thread with "Wilder's leftovers". Povetkin was going to beat Wilder silly until Haymon messed with his test results. LOL Look, I am a huge Povetkin fan, but come on... Haymon messed with the test results. lol In any case, I am looking forward to Stiverne getting KO'ed in under 4, just so we can discuss if Povetkin KO'ed a guy Wilder went 12 with.... in how many rounds is Povetkin going to KO Wilder in. =) :fingersx:

Dominic Wade vs GGG https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l9WQnHnyCpk and I would say Povetkin vs Perez https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MqQjglA6CP0

I think this would be a rematch of Povetkin vs Mike Perez. Povetkin in a brutal KO.