Lol...I wasn't trying to compose a definitive top ten of British fighters. I really was just experimenting with how to post a poll, and it's the first thing that popped into my head. I have to say I've never heard of Ted Kid Lewis or Jimmy Wilde so something productive has come out of this. Thanks for the inadvertent advice guys! ;)
For info on Jimmy Wilde and Benny Lynch, see here.
For info on Ted "Kid" Lewis, see here.
On achievements Lewis or Calzage, although Nigel Benn served up some amazing fights that were on regular TV, unlike guys like Hatton! Ken Buchanan, I'd vote for a fellow Scot but I'm too young to remember him.
Do you think boxing was invented in 1970? None of those boxers even come close to the achievements of Jimmy Wilde or Ted Lewis or even Fitzsimmons. And the greatest Scottish boxer of all all time was probably Benny Lynch rather than Buchanan, although there are arguments in favour of both.
It is for this reason that I want this fight to come off, and why I will be rooting for David Haye to shock the world.
That's totally illogical because Haye will retire this year, so if he wins, he'll leave the division is a worse state than it's in now.
And Wlad's competition has been on a par with the competition Holmes faced for most of his reign, and no one was writing articles like this then.
I can't put everyone in here so hopefully the list is good enough.
No it isn't.
Jimmy Wilde is the #1 British boxer of all time in all credible ATG lists, head and shoulders above anyone else.
Ted "Kid" Lewis is the #2 or at worst #3 in all credible ATG lists.
Jim Driscoll and Freddy Welsh are also ranked higher by all boxing historians than most of the fighters in your poll.
Some of the fighters in your poll are just ridiculous. Bruno doesn't belong anywhere near the top 10, and nor does Khan at this point.
My top 10:
1) Jimmy Wilde
2) Ted "Kid" Lewis
3) Bob Fitzsimmonds
4) Lennox Lewis
5) Joe Calzaghe
6) Ken Buchanan
7) Jim Driscoll
8) Freddy Welsh
9) Tommy Farr
10) Naseem Hamed
Show me the comparable Wlad video. Comparing Oliver McCall with Jimmy Twite, oh dear! That's almost as bad as comparing Sanders with Jimmy Twite. Yes, I think the idiots badge is all yours pal. Haye was stopped in 1 round by an amateur nobody, and I care less about your midgets. :owned2:
I did not compare Twite with McCall, you idiot, any more than I compared a teenage Haye with a 29 year old Lewis. I was pointing out that even at the age of 29, an ATG was knocked out by a journeyman, and that Pacquiao was stopped by two journeymen, one when he was 18 and when he was 21. Most good boxers and many great ones have had some bad amateur losses and that's completely irrelevant to how they do in the pros. You really should get a brain and learn the difference between illustrating a principle and comparing specific boxers with each other.
I don't think anything could be worse for it than Haye winning and then retiring (as he has said he will do.) With a bunch of undeserving nobodies scrambling for all of those vacant belts.
Exactly, the article is totally illogical.
Haye was 19 in that fight. You can say he was a child, but Mike Tyson was wrecking the pro game at 19. And even Wlad was Olympic HW champion at a similar age and beating guys leagues above Jimmy Twite. No excuses for that TKO1 loss.
And as someone else pointed out, Pac was 18 when he was knocked out by Torrecampo, and 21 when he was knocked out by Sinsurat.
And Lennox Lewis was 29 when he was knocked out by McCall.
So you're being an idiot.
No Benny Lynch ?. :nonono:
You're right, I should have put him in. I guess that means Hamed doesn't make it because I don't think anyone ahead of him in my list deserves to move down below Hamed.
He's making a fool of himself everytime he opens his mouth these days. :lol1:
Adamek has signed to fight one of the Klitschkos. The reason why he was forced to sign to fight one of them rather than being able to specify which one, was because both Klitschkos wanted to keep free to fight Haye in preference to Adamek, in the forlorn hope that Haye might grow some balls and sign. And therefore it's you who is making a fool of yourself.
sorry im a month off. wlad wants to fight april 30th july 2 and sept. whats wrong with that?
No, if Haye agrees to fight Wlad in July, then Adamek will fight Vitali, not Wlad. That's why Adamek was forced to sign to fight one of the Klitschkos and wasn't able to specify which one - because both Klitschkos would rather fight Haye, should he finally grow some balls and sign to fight one of them.
Adameks manager confirms the fight is on.
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/584094-tomasz-adamek-vs-wladimir-klitschko-in-september-signed
This must be hard to take, not only had Adamek shat on Wlad but his manager has too.
Are you seriously accusing Kathy Duva, Adamek's promoter, of lying???? See here.
I truly believe that Haye gonna KO Wlad. Yeah this Haye is a real chicken and cherrypicker, but he has killer instinct, decent power and speed, also he is quite a smart guy.
If the fight will be signed for July, I'd say this fight is signed exactly at the correct time, when the fight is hot and fighters are at their prime. If Wlad-Haye fight would've taken place 1-2 years earlier, it would've generated less profit.
Will you bet a million points to my two million on that? I'm giving you two to one odds in your favour, so how can you say no?
But you support Khan? Oh the irony. :D
Khan showed massive heart against Maidana, so how it that ironic?
That said, I don't see how anyone can say that Bute lacks heart either.
Hey Bat, greetings from Illinois. What is your opinion on Bute fighting his 16th straight fight in his hometown of Quebec without a squeek from the detractors while Andre Ward can't fight more than once in his hometown of Oakland before being labeled a vagina?
More than once????? It's seven fights in a row and counting, and in a tournament where the whole point was that there was supposed to be a scrupulously level playing field for all of the fighters in the tournament!!! In normal circumstances it's usual for a title holder to get home advantage, as Bute has been; but in a tournament consisting mostly of unifications, in which every fighter apart from Ward has had to fight half their fights without home advantage, and all their fights against anyone but Ward has been fought with neutral officials, but in which Ward has been given special treatment, that just stinks.
Plus there are good commercial reasons for Bute's fights being in Montreal, as they make a lot more money there than they could make anywhere else. That is not true of Ward, who isn't a big draw anywhere at this point. His fights are not in California for commercial reasons but for political ones (he seems to have some sort of hold over Showtime).
The rindside judges have been appointed to Lucien Bute's titledefense against Brain Magee.
Pasquale Procopio
Benoit Roussel
Mickey Vann.
So there you have it; 2 canadians and an englishman.
This is top notch homecooking.
Based on prior experiences I'd say Magee has to KO Bute twice to get a draw.
WAR MAGEE!!
All title fights should have neutral judges and a neutral ref - that should be in the rules of all of the sanctioning bodies and I don't understand why it isn't.
If by getting on your bike and riding for three rounds equals heart, then yeah, he's got the heart of a warrior. :D
Staying on his feet and eventually fighting back, and refusing to quit, after the punches he took in round 10, showed more heart than 90% of boxers ever show.
As for rematching Prescott, that fight had a lot of point a year or more ago, but now, with Prescott having lost badly to two journeymen, and with Khan having beaten a far better fighter than Prescott who punches harder than Prescott, it's a totally pointless fight. Everyone who knows anything about boxing knows it would be a boring fight, similar to the Mitchell-Prescott fight, with Khan outboxing Prescott on the outside and easily winning every round. Prescott is far too limited to prevent that happening if Khan boxes even half as well as he did against Maidana. It would prove absolutely nothing because Prescott has gone downhill so much since he beat Khan. All it would prove is that Khan is as good as Mitchell, and Mitchell is a natural Super Featherweight, who isn't ranked in any credible top 10 at any weight.
At this stage, Maidana, McCloskey and then Bradley (who are ranked #3, #10 and #1 in his division) are all far more credible opponents than Prescott. And the only people who want him to fight Prescott right now are haters. No genuine boxing fan would be interested in that fight any more.
Rick Reeno of Boxingscene's view on boxing and a possible Mayweather-Pacquiao fight. http://www.boxingsocialist.com/video/rick-reeno-of-boxing-scene
He said he gives a slight, slight edge to Mayweather, and even that only if he's on his A-game. Not exactly a ringing endorsement - he's basically saying it's a pick 'em fight, with Mayweather as a very slight favourite, which is how I see it as well.
Sounds like he's scared to give Mayweather the nod. "Slight, Slight" slight my ass, Who do you pick Rick.
Scared my arse. He thinks it's a pick 'em fight, and so do I.
If Vitali destroys Solis... Adamek & Avenges Haye's win over Wlad... he's top 10 by default. If wlad GETS KNOCKED OUT by Haye & Vitali wipes the floor with him... he automatically moves ahead Of Wlad in the alltime rankings..
If Haye knocks out Wlad, Wlad won't be in the top 50 of the all time Heavyweight rankings. (Nor would Haye if he retires or loses straight after doing that).
Read my previous post: They have the luxary of being athletic because they are TALL.
And yet it's the less athletic brother (Vitali) who has supposedly the better chin and stamina. Exactly my point.
Vitali is always in tip top condition, so you have no point. You're just trolling.
Athleticism on its own isn't sufficient to make a great fighter, there are many factors that go into that (Michael Grant had no boxing ability, so in his case his athleticism didn't help him much). But being in shape sure as hell helps, and your pretence that it doesn't is just hilarious. And Vitali is always in great shape.
Because both brothers are so highly skilled they rule the division, but just think about who would be champ if they weren't around:
Valuev (chubby)
Chambers (chubby)
Peter (chubby)
Solis (chubby)
or even Toney (chubby)
Valuev is not chubby and is extremely mediocre in any case. He lost to Haye and Chagaev and most felt he also lost to a 50 year old Holyfield.
Chambers was in very good shape for his fights with Wlad and Dimitrenko, but was in less good shape for his fight with Povetkin, which was a major reason why he lost to Povetkin.
Solis was a great amateur but is very mediocre now, precisely because he has fallen in love with food and out of love with training.
Toney!!!! You're just trolling aren't you!!!
All you're pointing out is that there are very few in shape Heavyweights around at the moment, very similar to the situation when Tyson came on the scene in the early 80s and scythed through the division. Fat fighters like the aptly named Tony Tubbs, and Trevor Berbick, had held alphabet titles, but were totally destroyed by an in shape and highly athletic (but very short) young Tyson.
It was athletic Wlad who got floored against Peter, not chubby Toney.
Wlad totally dominated Peter in the rematch and won both their fights. Toney lost twice to Peter and was comprehensively outboxed by one of the most limited boxers in Heavyweight history in their rematch.
And Toney's style happens to be one that uses relatively little energy, so he was able to get away to a greater extent than most with being a lump of lard, because he uses no footwork to speak of, just superb upper body movement and timing. But he would have done far better than he did had he not been so badly out of shape.
If you seriously think Wlad and Vitali should stop training so hard and should eat more burgers, and should turn up 40 pounds overweight, like Toney and Solis, and that they'd do better as a result, then you're not only stupid, you're also insane.
Chubby+conditioned (at superheavyweight) IS DEFINITELY dangerous. You have not watched many fights if you think otherwise.
Wow you're funny.
You'd better tell Wlad and Vitali to stop training so hard then. They're both easily the most athletic Super Heavyweights (240+) around at the moment, and possibly in the history of the sport.
If an old Lennox shatters a prime Vitali's face to bits how come people argue a prime Vitali would beat a prime Lewis?
That wasn't a prime Vitali, any more than the version of Lewis who lost to McCall had reached his prime. Even the current version of Vitali would beat that version of Vitali - he's a far more intelligent fighter now, and judges distance and space far better than he used to. The Vitali of 2 years ago (which was his peak as a boxer - boxing prime is not the same thing as physical prime) would easily beat that version of Vitali.
Which does not mean that a prime Vitali would necessarily beat a prime Lewis, but nor is it a slam dunk that he wouldn't. The fact is, that fight tells us next to nothing about how they'd fare if they were both in their primes.
In terms of the ATG lists, though, Vitali won't get anywhere near the top 10 whatever he does now, because of his weak resume. Fantasy match-ups are just that - fantasies.
Did Lennox ever reside in Jamaica? Either way I agree he is British and he is one of their very very few greats. Ali was born and raise in Louisville so he is in no way African.
No, Lewis has never resided in Jamaica, so he is no more Jamaican that Ali is African - in both cases, their only link to the country concerned is ethnic.
i don't bash them because they are british...i bash them because they are **** fighters. a handful of fighters out of the history of boxing doesn't come close to justifying that they produce good fighters. look at their history, its not opinion its fact.
After the US, Mexico and arguably Puerto Rico, Britain has produced more world champions, more Hall of Famers, and more ATGs than any other country. Given the size of its population, being the #4 boxing nation in the world is pretty good. So you're talking absolute twaddle, and that's not opinion, it's fact.
They have beaten some good fighters who because they lost to them look worse than they are and would have been viewed as better if they had not lost.
Chambers and Byrd are similar to and about as good as Jimmy Young, and Chagaev would have been a top 10 fighter in any era.
Would Frazier ever have become a great fighter if he had fought and lost to Foreman earlier in his career? I doubt it.
And they haven't just beaten everyone they've fought in recent years, they've also won almost every round, and both have among the highest KO ratios in history. Holmes went for long periods of fighting in just as weak a division as this one, but never dominated to anything like the same extent. In fact, the only elite fighter Holmes ever beat was Norton, and Norton wasn't an ATG. Holmes is classed as an ATG because of his quality as a fighter and because of his longevity, not because of who he beat.
That said, I don't see Vitali getting high in the ATG lists. Wlad's resume is far better than Vitali's is, and Wlad has potentially several years left in which to improve it. Plus Wlad is fighting Haye, who for better or worse most people seem to think is a real test for him, so his ATG standing should go up significantly as a result of beating Haye. (If Haye wins, though, Wlad's ATG standing would be dead in the water - but I don't see Haye winning.)
yeh he was only about 5'7"
No, he was 5′ 5½, yet he was a borderline ATG Light Heavyweight, thus proving how idiotic all the people are who confuse height with size.
Good to read that. :fing02:
I would be unhappy with Wlad if he cancelled his fight with Chisora.
Wlad has never even considered cancelling the fight with Chisora - these are silly rumours started by Haye stans.
Latest Haye interview, which has just recently gone up on espn:
"Haye goads Chisora over Klitschko fight
David Haye has warned Dereck Chisora that he faces a "brutal" night against Wladimir Klitschko on April 30.
British heavyweight champion Chisora, a veteran of just 14 professional battles, takes a leap onto the world stage when he competes for the WBO and IBF belts in Germany. The fight was meant to take place last December, but Klitschko withdrew after picking up a muscle injury.
Haye is in negotiations with Klitschko over a July 2 bout, and he believes the Ukrainian is using Chisora as a tune-up ahead of that clash.
"I don't believe Wladimir needs a warm-up to fight me, I don't feel anyone needs a warm-up," he told Sky Sports News.
"Maybe in his heart he's not confident of getting in the ring with me without a warm-up. He's not doing it for the money, because he's not getting paid that much for it.
"I believe that fight's going to be pretty brutal, pretty one-sided, so I'm taking a step back, letting him have his warm-up."
Some reports have suggested that Klitschko will cancel his April clash in order to focus on Haye, but Chisora remains unconcerned. "There ain't going to be a fight in July," he said. "I'm going to take over the world scene after April.""
But LOL at Haye's outrageous hypocrisy, suddenly saying it isn't an obstacle after pretending for so long that it was the only reason he had pulled out - and at the way the pathetic British media refuse to call him on it.