IF Haye Beat Wlad, and Vitali Beat Haye, Where Would You Rank Vitali All Time

BMI is by no means perfect, but still pretty good at pegging unhealthy guys. It's not. BMI is measured on single individuals but has only value for AVERAGE body types and definitely not for athletes: (wikipedia) BMI was explicitly cited by Keys as being appropriate for population studies, and inappropriate for individual diagnosis. The BMI is generally used as a means of correlation between groups related by general mass and can serve as a vague means of estimating adiposity. BMI categories do not take into account many factors such as frame size and muscularity. The categories also fail to account for varying proportions of fat, bone, cartilage, water weight, and more. One basic problem, especially in athletes, is that muscle weight contributes to BMI. Some professional athletes would be "overweight" or "obese" according to their BMI, despite them carrying little fat, unless the number at which they are considered "overweight" or "obese" is adjusted upward in some modified version of the calculation. As I said: Never mention the BMI again as a proof for anything. Believe your EYES more than the BMI.

Aaah, the useless BMI. Unfortunately for you the BMI does not measure a single person's fat level but is used by scientists to measure the obesity of GROUPS (e.g. fast food eaters in a period of several decades). Any other use is not legitimate and prime Mike Tyson (= pure muscles) would be OBESE level #1. Never mention the BMI again. BMI is by no means perfect, but still pretty good at pegging unhealthy guys. Tyson was an exceptional FREAK and nobody can pull off that body type. Tua tried to emulate it but was too fat to strap on any major belts in his career. The good champs from Dempsey to Louis to Klitschko have all been fit and healthy. The Galento's and Arreolas were not built to reign.

Vitali is always in tip top condition, so you have no point. You're just trolling. You have a strange definition of trolling. But being in shape sure as hell helps, and your pretence that it doesn't is just hilarious. And Vitali is always in great shape. Being in shape in my book does not mean ATHLETIC. That is the whole point. Chris Arreola is utterly in shape, just as SUMOs are. Just as chubby shot-putters are. That they are fat has nothing to do with "being in shape". They train, they train, they train --> they are in shape. And BECAUSE they are FAT it helps them against heavy punchers like the Klitschkos. Valuev is not chubby and is extremely mediocre in any case. Valuev is chubby. And, yes, he is mediocre, and yet has not lost once properly, let alone got KOed. He lost to Haye and Chagaev and most felt he also lost to a 50 year old Holyfield. No revisionism please. Chambers was in very good shape for his fights with Wlad and Dimitrenko Chambers is chubby. Ask any current-era hater. Solis was a great amateur but is very mediocre now, precisely because he has fallen in love with food and out of love with training. But that is exactly my words: If you don't train you are unconditioned. As long as you train the chubbiness will protect you. It's the "untrained'ness" that is bad, not the chubbyness. Fat fighters like the aptly named Tony Tubbs, and Trevor Berbick, had held alphabet titles, but were totally destroyed by an in shape and highly athletic (but very short) young Tyson. Berbick? Fat? For the Tyson fight? What are you talking about? That Tubbs was chubby, yet got KOed fast, does not disprove anything I said because I believe had he been less chubby he would have been KOed faster. But you can not single out fights, you will always find some fattie being KOed fast and some athletie being KOed later. You have to see the global picture, not single fights. And so far I have seen enough superheavyweight fights to know that chubbiness is an advantage at superheavyweight. Not in lower division because there you need the full package of speed, reflexes, upper body movement etc etc, thus fat would hinder you. Wlad totally dominated Peter in the rematch and won both their fights. In the rematch Peter was in the most athletic shape of his life... and got handled much easier. Toney lost twice to Peter and was comprehensively outboxed by one of the most limited boxers in Heavyweight history in their rematch. EXACTLY. Toney was outboxed and was hit far more than Wlad YET HE DIDN'T GASS nor GO DOWN because FAT PROTECTS. Exactly my words. But he would have done far better than he did had he not been so badly out of shape. Yes, fat limits your speed. Yes, fat limits your footwork. Yes, fat limits your movement. But at heavyweight you don't need these things necessarily. It's far more important to be able to take a punch. And fat makes you more punch resistant. All such things like footwork, speed etc are meaningless if you face a hard puncher and cannot take a punch. Athletic Toney would be better at footwork, movement, speed etc. That is true. But he would have been KOed easier. And since at superheavyweight being KOed is a greater danger than being out-footworked fat is a greater advantage than a disadvantage. If you seriously think Wlad and Vitali should stop training so hard and should eat more burgers, and should turn up 40 pounds overweight, like Toney and Solis, and that they'd do better as a result, then you're not only stupid, you're also insane. I claimed the opposite: Wlad can be (and should be) athletic because athleticism WORKS for tall and/or highly skilled fighters.

Haye MD'd Valuev. Wlad stops HW world champions. See the difference? Haye stopped Ruiz troll and nobody has stopped Valeuv.

Haye beat only 1 champ: Valuev who is still offline due to health problems and who lost due to bad luck (MD). And as I wrote the Klitschkos can be athletic because they are tall. Haye MD'd Valuev. Wlad stops HW world champions. See the difference?

Vitali actually has a lower BMI than Wlad Klitschko, slightly healthier. Aaah, the useless BMI. Unfortunately for you the BMI does not measure a single person's fat level but is used by scientists to measure the obesity of GROUPS (e.g. fast food eaters in a period of several decades). Any other use is not legitimate and prime Mike Tyson (= pure muscles) would be OBESE level #1. Never mention the BMI again.

Haye beat only 1 champ: Valuev who is still offline due to health problems and who lost due to bad luck (MD). And as I wrote the Klitschkos can be athletic because they are tall. That doesn't answer my question where are these chubby champions past or present.

So all those chubby you listed aren't world champs because athletic HWs like Haye and the Klits beat them. Haye beat only 1 champ: Valuev who is still offline due to health problems and who lost due to bad luck (MD). And as I wrote the Klitschkos can be athletic because they are tall.

Read my previous post: They have the luxary of being athletic because they are TALL. And yet it's the less athletic brother (Vitali) who has supposedly the better chin and stamina. Exactly my point. Vitali is always in tip top condition, so you have no point. You're just trolling. Athleticism on its own isn't sufficient to make a great fighter, there are many factors that go into that (Michael Grant had no boxing ability, so in his case his athleticism didn't help him much). But being in shape sure as hell helps, and your pretence that it doesn't is just hilarious. And Vitali is always in great shape. Because both brothers are so highly skilled they rule the division, but just think about who would be champ if they weren't around: Valuev (chubby) Chambers (chubby) Peter (chubby) Solis (chubby) or even Toney (chubby) Valuev is not chubby and is extremely mediocre in any case. He lost to Haye and Chagaev and most felt he also lost to a 50 year old Holyfield. Chambers was in very good shape for his fights with Wlad and Dimitrenko, but was in less good shape for his fight with Povetkin, which was a major reason why he lost to Povetkin. Solis was a great amateur but is very mediocre now, precisely because he has fallen in love with food and out of love with training. Toney!!!! You're just trolling aren't you!!! All you're pointing out is that there are very few in shape Heavyweights around at the moment, very similar to the situation when Tyson came on the scene in the early 80s and scythed through the division. Fat fighters like the aptly named Tony Tubbs, and Trevor Berbick, had held alphabet titles, but were totally destroyed by an in shape and highly athletic (but very short) young Tyson. It was athletic Wlad who got floored against Peter, not chubby Toney. Wlad totally dominated Peter in the rematch and won both their fights. Toney lost twice to Peter and was comprehensively outboxed by one of the most limited boxers in Heavyweight history in their rematch. And Toney's style happens to be one that uses relatively little energy, so he was able to get away to a greater extent than most with being a lump of lard, because he uses no footwork to speak of, just superb upper body movement and timing. But he would have done far better than he did had he not been so badly out of shape. If you seriously think Wlad and Vitali should stop training so hard and should eat more burgers, and should turn up 40 pounds overweight, like Toney and Solis, and that they'd do better as a result, then you're not only stupid, you're also insane.

And yet it's the less athletic brother (Vitali) who has supposedly the better chin and stamina. Exactly my point. Vitali actually has a lower BMI than Wlad Klitschko, slightly healthier. The Klitschkos know just as well as I do that being fat is a hindrance in boxing not an advantage. They have NEVER had a BMI over 30(obese) in their entire careers, but alot of their opponents do. Lennox was obese only twice in his career. Once was in the loss to Rahman (253) and the other was when he gutted out a win against Leatherface(257). Stop glorifying Fat people when the best boxers dont even subscribe to that religion.

If Rahman beats Lennox and Wlad beats Rahman where would you rank Wlad? Chronology was shot all to hell in your post. Heres what happened: -Rahman beat Lennox, -Lennox destroys Rahman in the same calendar year KO4 *5 years pass* -Maskaev emasculates Rahman, ends Rock's career as an elite fighter *2 more years pass* -Wlad fights a shot to hell Rahman with Lennox watching at ringside. Wlad takes 3 more rounds to get the job done against a much lesser fighter.

Read my previous post: They have the luxary of being athletic because they are TALL. And yet it's the less athletic brother (Vitali) who has supposedly the better chin and stamina. Exactly my point. Because both brothers are so highly skilled they rule the division, but just think about who would be champ if they weren't around: Valuev (chubby) Chambers (chubby) Peter (chubby) Solis (chubby) or even Toney (chubby) and the list goes on... You have to get accustomed to the idea that the perfect look for superheavyweights is chubby, just like it is for Sumos or shot-putters, and I know very well that it goes against "body taste" or the "usual consensus", but chubbies (if conditioned) are generally the better superheavyweights (because of stamina and chin) and already expect the next generations of superheavyweights to be fat. It was athletic Wlad who got floored against Peter, not chubby Toney. So all those chubby you listed aren't world champs because athletic HWs like Haye and the Klits beat them. You have nothing to go on, the fact that you think Valeuv, Peter and Solis have good stamina shows how wrong you are.

Wow you're funny. You'd better tell Wlad and Vitali to stop training so hard then. Read my previous post: They have the luxury of being athletic because they are TALL. They're both easily the most athletic Super Heavyweights (240+) around at the moment, and possibly in the history of the sport. And yet it's the less athletic brother (Vitali) who has supposedly the better chin and stamina. Exactly my point. Because both brothers are so highly skilled they rule the division, but just think about who would be champ if they weren't around: Valuev (chubby) Chambers (chubby) Peter (chubby) Solis (chubby) or even Toney (chubby) and the list goes on... You have to get accustomed to the idea that the perfect look for superheavyweights is chubby, just like it is for Sumos or shot-putters, and I know very well that it goes against "body taste" or the "usual consensus", but chubbies (if conditioned) are generally the better superheavyweights (because of stamina and chin) and already expect the next generations of superheavyweights to be fat. It was athletic Wlad who got floored against Peter, not chubby Toney.

Top 30 of all time,vitali has a terrible resume even compared too his brother

Wow you're funny. You'd better tell Wlad and Vitali to stop training so hard then. They're both easily the most athletic Super Heavyweights (240+) around at the moment, and possibly in the history of the sport. LOL exactly the Klits and Haye are the most athletic heavyweights and have all the titles that's odd. Its a wonder Peter or Arreola don't have a 5 year reign on top by now.

If Vitali destroys Solis... Adamek & Avenges Haye's win over Wlad... he's top 10 by default. If wlad GETS KNOCKED OUT by Haye & Vitali wipes the floor with him... he automatically moves ahead Of Wlad in the alltime rankings.. If Haye knocks out Wlad, Wlad won't be in the top 50 of the all time Heavyweight rankings. (Nor would Haye if he retires or loses straight after doing that).

Chubby+conditioned (at superheavyweight) IS DEFINITELY dangerous. You have not watched many fights if you think otherwise. Wow you're funny. You'd better tell Wlad and Vitali to stop training so hard then. They're both easily the most athletic Super Heavyweights (240+) around at the moment, and possibly in the history of the sport.

So the examples you brought up are still fighters that lost, please find me some of those chubby champions. That they lost is no miracle because nearly everybody loses against ATGs. But I have watched hundreds of superheavyweight fights now and at superheavyweight being chubby IS AN ADVANTAGE. I know that for a hater like you "being chubby is a proof of a bad opponent" because that's a hater's dear idea that he clings to, but I have watched too many superheavyweight fights to fall for such nonsense. If the fighter is well conditioned and chubby (e.g. fat Arreola) he is definitely more dangerous than an athletic conditioned boxer (e.g. Herbie Hide) (unless the skill sets are too far apart). Fat Arreola has more chances against power punchers (like the Klitschkos) than athletic Arreola. Fat Arreola has a superhigh output and one of the best KOratios, and was barely shaken by Vitali, yet you are too blind to see the obvious. Vitali had less problems with superathletic Haye or Sosnowski than with chubby Kevin Johnson or chubby (even less skilled) Timo Hoffmann. One of the best examples of how athleticism is far less worth than chubbyness is Ken Norton (who is the ideal that good-old-time nostalgists aspire to) who was viciously schooled by the first punchers he met: Shavers, Cooney, Foreman: KO1, KO1, KO2. Had he been chubby he would have survived much longer. Athleticism at superheavyweight is a luxury you can only afford if your skill set is extremely high or you are tall or your opponent is a featherfist, other than that chubbies (always under the condition that they are conditioned) are the more dangerous and durable opponents.

Insults, insults, insults. Insults, insults, insults. You are one of the worst posters here, cklmaced, and you obviously have not much clue about the champs of the past. You see, you start to insult, because chubbiness it's your favorite LAME EXCUSE why Vitali is less then Lennox or why this era is bad. Vitali had no problems to KO Herbie Hide, but he failed against Arreola. Wlad had no problems to KO Eliseo Castillo but it took him much longer against Sam Peter or Eddie Chambers. You simply chose to ignore the points that hint at chubbiness BEING AN ADVANTAGE (= making an opponent MORE DIFFICULT). So the examples you brought up are still fighters that lost, please find me some of those chubby champions.

So nice of you to insult me and insert your favorite smiley. Unfortunately for you that is only a counter-proof in Rocky Land. You know yourself what you are typing is completely retarded that's why you are using an alt to do it.