Manny had busted up Marquez' face and had him reeling. In pursuit of the final blow he got a little overconfident and got caught. But the better man didn't win.
"Marquez deserved to win" - Manny Pacquiao
I'm gym rat/boxing fanatic.
Boxers are usually in the best shape/lowest body fat of all pro athletes.
.... except bodybuilders. Check out the Olympia Contest.
Boxers are usually comfortable sitting around 9-11percent body fat on fight night ... maybe even as low as 7 percent body fat on fight night if truely dedicated. Tim Bradley gets his bodyfat pretty low, due to a combo of alot of heavy weight training/ low weight high rep switch up training.
After being in the gym training people my whole life, my eye can spot "the fine line of EXTRA HELP"
I assure all reading this Marquez's team gave him some extra help.
Mr. Olympia contestants are at the cutting edge of performance drugs and they get down to 2.5-3 percent bodyfat.
With that being said, & and healthy boxers being 9-11 percent bodyfat, i will tell you with a professional eye Marquez was at 4-5percent bodyfat.
Now there are genetic freaks out there ... but Marquez isn't a special physical specimen.
Let me tell you guys how the body processes "extra help".
The body will oxidize these molecules in 2 ways. Excrement(shyte/piss) or subdermal.
Excrement is self explanatory. Subdermal will expose itself as acne(zits/pimples) ... in the gym we label this as "backnee". It's one of the first signs of PED use.
I am in support PEDs. They help in recovery, and in growth.
I am in support of fairness above all though. VADA above the USADA
I know what I am talking about. And I know what to look for. One of the signs of when the person gets to the intermediate(medium) is in the shoulders. Always look for PED signs in the shoulders. At the medium point of usage you will notice 3 very defined striations in the front of the shoulder. At the back of the shoulder you will notice another 2 striations next to where the rear-deltoid is tied into the latissimus dorsi(back muscle).
When you see all 5 striations with very clear definition, you have spotted the guarantee of PEDS .... in what shape, form, amount/usage schedule isn't known. Rest assured PEDs was there in some form though.
Here is how tell when the intermediate(medium) level users begins to approach the high/consistant usage point.
A normal person's will have a certain look "relaxed" and another look when it is "flexed".
Every persons body creates the proper amount of red blood cells it NEEDS. If anything alters this amount of RBCs it is only temporary. The body will adjusts itself automatically over time.
The sign of graduate level PEDs use in Marquez was very evident at the weigh in. Marquez looked swollen. The thing was, that he was relaxed though. He shouldn't have looked swollen just normally standing there. I was impressed. Marquez looked just like my clients. My clients aren't pro-athletes though. They just want to be the best in the gym. Boxing can be life and death.
As much as i wish it wasn't so ... it is. PEDs tests might have come back negative from the Nevada State Athletic Commission, but i assure you if the guys i train(With PEDs) were fighting, and i had at least 20days advance notice, those same tests will come back negative aswell.
Take into account Marquez was in camp 4 months. .... 3 months cycle, 1 month cleanse. After 3 months of cycling+training, eat right & continue training hard for the last month and retain all muscle + speed for fight night, and look like a swollen hulk.
Example: say a normal person has . After 3months carefully monitored that same person might have
In the above example 1.1-1.4 ... you might think its only a but that .3 is also about
Imagine being 25 percent stronger in 3 months ... cleanse for a month and show up fight night with all the benefits, and also test negative on any steroid test.
One of the only ways to catch someone is a Carbon isotope ratio (CIR) test. This is also very,very expensive and can't be done on urine, only through a blood test. Which wasn't ?????? done for the PAC/MARQUEZ fight.
This is the test Mayweather wants done. I think people will be onboard know. You could really kill somebody in the squared circle people.
Thanks for listening.
Great Post,
Now if you are basing yourself on body fat please explain why Timothy Bradley whose body is chiseled wasn't able to knock out pac?
If so are you accusing Timmy of juicing?
.... marquez's legs actually looked very striated. here is your evidence minus any applicable cir test. marquez weighed 143. pac weighed 147.
being in a gym my whole life around PEDs I'll tell you professionally that marquez looked about 12lbs heavier than pacquiao.
pacquiao also looked like he had more bodyfat than marquez. minus pac's bodyfat, marquez might have looked 15lbs heavier, with very little bodyfat. if you read my previous posts about upper back acne, and you recorded the fight in HD watch the tape again ... you can see back acne on marquez.
I wish this fight was clean, cause it would have been a great KO. unfortunately, it was dirtier than prostitute.
Being in the gym you would also know that there is no certain way to know a persons real body fat, unless you test for it.
Also knowing PEDs you have to know that not all PEDs bulk you up.
Also knowing weight lifting you would have to know that acne is not necessarily a by product of steroids, it can also be caused by an increase in natural testosterone secretions. (I get this a lot when I am at my fittest)
Squats can increase natural testosterone in conjunction with natural supplements such as tribulus. Also to increase vascularity one can take L-arginine which make veins more pronounced.
Finally you and TS like to use the word "striated muscle"
Alt maybe?
The longer you go on, the further you reveal your poor understanding of the subject. Your will is stronger than your knowledge and dismissing sensible opinion because it conflicts with your interest is not science. When I see storm clouds, it's sensible and acceptable for me to predictable to predict rain. Contrary opinions are equally valid.
With that said, I'm not one of these Marquez haters. I've rooted for him in every fight, save for the last when I had no favorite. I just feel that people have the right to have an opinion about PEDs in this situation without the thought nazis shutting them down. I can be a Marquez fan and still suspect him of using.
Although, your responses are very eloquent, you are still not making any sense.
I am not saying you can't be suspicious, however if you can't honestly use the same logic again with Pac given his past performances.
The only thing that makes seem like a hypocrite is the fact that you are suspicious of one fighter and yet not the other.
You dismiss any possibility of Manny of using PEDs.
1)I do not think timmy is juicing.
2)If you read my post i said disiplined boxers are 9-11 percent bodyfat. Also that the really, really disiplined boxers might even get to 7 percent.
To extrapolate: Tim Bradley historically has been better (physically)conditioned over his career that JMM. If Tim Bradley, one of a few great physical specimens, is hanging around MAYBE 7 percent bodyfat where would you put JMM at previously through out his' career?
I would put JMMs lifetime average conditioned Bodyfat at around 10percent. 10percent is fit, conditioned, perpared and ready for fight night.
Mr. Olympia contestants are at about 2.5-3 percent. This is ONLY attainable with blatant heavy & frequently monitored PEDs. One wrong move and you could toast your liver.
I safely put JMMs at about 4-5 percent bodyfat. JMMs lifetime average was at about 10percent. he is now at 4-5. That is going from fit and lean at 10percent to 4-5 percent bodyfat. He was perfectly in shape with low bodyfat THEN he shaved OVER 60percent of his remaining already lean bodyfat. From my Frequent PEDs adminstration to clients background, i will tell you shaveing 60percent existing bodyfat from an already lean athlete is not possible. Unless there is HELP. And there are lots of PEDs for many different departments, whether you want sped, power, explosiveness ... you can take your pick really.
I do think timmy is clean though. Just abnormally high dedicated. Hope he gets back in the ring soon, regardless of the last debacle which wasn't his fault i am a timmy fan.
JMM was helped in the fight. These are not speculations. These are scientific facts.
No, they are still speculations.
Facts are measurable, quantifiable, and cannot be left to interpretation.
No assumptions can be made, you assume Marquez could not dedicate himself to achieve the body he wanted. With hard work dedication and a change in diet you can change you body.
Based on you argument since there are PEDs in explosiveness in power and speed, would you be suspicious of Manny?
A guy that goes into the higher weight classes, with men 20 pounds bigger than him on fight night, and literally dismantle their face.
A guy that literally grows his body mass while gaining zero fat, while maintaining the speed, power, and stamina of his previous weight division.
Finally, your forgetting what PEDs do, it is to enhance your performance not to make you look bigger.
Just rewatched the fight. Aside from Pacquiao landing nearly 50% of his punches to only like 20% from Marquez, Marquez was looking like a smashed up pumpkin. I honestly don't think he would have lasted 6 more rounds had that punch not landed. But that's boxing for you and I'm not hating, I'm just stating the clear facts. :boxing:
Bring on Pac-Marquez 5!
WELL YOU'LL NEVER REALLY KNOW cuz he got KTFO!!!!!!!!
What visual evidence of juicing have you seen? .
Remember PEDs are not meant to necessarily bulk you up, they can make you strong without the bulk.
Designer drugs are meant to have fewer side effects.
And if remember correctly manny's body was stacked, not a single ounce of fat.
You go from 135 to 147 and put on pure muscle is not visual evidence.
Do you see new striation? No. Do you see veins that were not previously there? No.
If you change your diet, lifestyle and training regiment don't you think your body will change?
The man trained for over 4 months, you don't think his body would change?
Especially if he's working in strength
Do you see new balding? No.
Marquez has been going bald over the years, that is fact.
Do you see facial crania increases? No. No. No.
Okay, here you just lost your argument, manny's face has grown tremendously, that is not just me look at the past threads. This has even been made fun several times.
I answered every single on of your questions in every post, yet you've ignored most of mine in the past post.
So answer me this:
If Manny knew Marquez was dealing with Heredia why not test him, if Marquez was willing to do it?
Do you agree that PEDs can increase strength speed and stamina, without bulking you up?
Who do you think looks more suspicious a man who is willing to take a test or a man who declines over and over?
Remember:
They are called Performance Enhancer Drugs, what better way to speculate a fighter is using them if not by looking at their performance. Manny's performance against bigger men is a reason to be suspicious.
They didn't suspect Bonds of juicing because they saw him without his shirt off, they were suspicious because of his batting performance.
The argument that a normal Marquez would have done the same thing in the same situation to Pac is specious. It's no argument at all. It's a lame excuse for doping.
Marquez came out clean.
Marquez landed that punch more than once during the fight, and Pac wasn't phased.
A cheat is a cheat is a cheat. All you're saying is that even a normal Marquez would have KO'd Pacman in this situation. A specious argument to say the least.
Well there goes your "unbiased" views.
No, what I'm saying is if that you say he is juiced, and he is the hulk, and punches like Bruce Lee, why couldn't he knock out pac with that punch, which occurred literally the next round.
Why?
Because Pac did not see it.
The typical visual indicators seem to be present. Balding is common, but also genetic, so that's a wash. But the bulk up, striation, and veins, are worrisome. One question I have is purely academic: Can juice give you a better chin?
NOTHING CAN GIVE YOU A BETTER CHIN!!!!!
The amount of forces your head can absorb does not have anything to do with amount of bulk in your body.
That is genetics, the natural size of your neck bone that inhibits the rattling of your brain inside your skull.
Normally i would agree you cant tell exactly how much bodyfat sombody has execpt: I do this eveyday and i can tell.
There are thresholds for percentages though. 2.5-3 percent for Olympia contestants. 4-5percent for pro users.
Once you get to 6-7 percent bodyfat percentages level you have catagories. the PEDs users OR the really, really, really dedicated athletes. Its important to note that if the athlete is clean, and he is in this catagory he is on a lean, lean diet and isn't consuming red meat.
Tim Bradley is a vegan in case you didn't know. Thats how he can attain that body fat level.
Manny Pacquiao for example fits into the 8,9,10,11 percent bodyfat level. He is probably at 8 percent average lifetime. Pac used to be even lower when he was at the lower classes and starved to make weight.
NFL runningbacks 12-15bodyfat. These guys are lean, eat tons of food and need calories replenshed as fast they use them.
... so in closing, i can tell what percantage bodyfat a person has within reason if they are fit for example. The different levels are distinguished.
What i can't tell for example, is if you take 2 random people off the street and say what are their bodyfat percantages. 16-25percent bodyfat is kind of a very broad catagory ... it would be very hard to distinguish the correct figure for example.
Ahh, but here you are speculating at Marquez level of dedication, and assuming he is using.
The man had been obsessed with Pac, never understimate a man's desire and will to win.
The man was robbed in his eyes for four times, were many people thought he won, you don't think that would be enough to be "really, really, really, dedicated".
Frank, I was just starting to like ya...then you went and wrote this. Your ignorance of boxing has now been illustrated to the world. lol
Of course somebody disagrees with you and you call them ignorant.
You really are something else.
Yes Banger, you are right. They belong to a now rather marginalized group. A few years ago they ruled with their propaganda. But, now, after the truth has set in, they are just the bitter remnants of a lost dream. Pity them, but give them no quarter.
Propaganda!
Haven't you made like three threads regarding the same thing.
Seems that someone else is bitter and unwilling to accept what happened.
Save the pity for yourself.
Yeah, but a brutha like me needs proof. I've been around PED users my whole life and saw no evidence of Marquez using.
Waiting for one these guys to say:
"I'm the founder of Balco and due to my experience in ...(paste google info here), I am certain Marquez is dirty"
The only thing missing from this thread is a video of round 5.....
Anywho.....
People are just looking for reasons as to why Pacquiao was KO'd.....a leaner Marquez with slightly more mass is an excuse for speculation........
sorry bro, don't know how to embed video
Frank Ducketts just said in another thread "Yeah, but Khan was with Roach. He should've been using what Pac was accused of using, lmfao!"
You Floyd fans make me laugh ..... you have been doing it for 3 years now and now all of a sudden you need proof when its Marquez while at the same time still go on still accusing Manny taking PEDs.
How can someone take your posts seriously when you do that?
sh1t hit the wall once pac declined to take the tests.
Marquez agreed to any type of tests.
Manny did not.
Two very different scenarios.
I wonder if he think that Manny is suspect, lmao. If he says no, thread over!
LMAO
I'm still waiting for a response from that dumbass.
The level of retardation will be EPIC!!!.
:popcorn:
Not biased at all. It's generally considered in the sport that Mannie does not play foul ball.
Really...
By whom is this "generally" considered.
As far as I can remember in this forum there were tons of post of suspicion of Manny juicing.
Refusing a test just because somebody makes an accusation is no reason for suspicion unless its an officially sanctioned demand.
So going up in weight and destroying bigger fighters is no reason for suspicion?
Was Marquez an officially sanctioned demand?
Add to that that the fact that there is no better way to clear your name and shut people's mouth than to take the test once and for all.
AND...
Marquez was willing to take any test as long as Pac did it.
Now if you knew Marquez was dealing with Heredia since the last fight why not make him take the test.
It's not as if Manny didn't know about it.
Marquez on the other hand presents a totally different picture.
Please elaborate, why is it different.
I really am trying to see you logic, but you are not making any sense.
Anything you can say about Marquez can be said about Pac's previous fight.
With only one difference one was willing to take blood tests, one was not.
Marquez is not the more skilled boxer. He was losing the fight on the scorecards, even with the knockdown he managed to get.
I give him credit for being able to land that KO punch. But in my eyes he is not the better man.
You know nothing about boxing!!!!!
Marquez IS the more skilled boxer. However, the most skilled boxer does not always wins.
And just as your idol said:
"Marquez deserved to win"
Just rewatched the fight. Aside from Pacquiao landing nearly 50% of his punches to only like 20% from Marquez, Marquez was looking like a smashed up pumpkin. I honestly don't think he would have lasted 6 more rounds had that punch not landed. But that's boxing for you and I'm not hating, I'm just stating the clear facts. :boxing:
Bring on Pac-Marquez 5!
"Marquez deserved to win"- Manny Pacquiao
A fair assessment. I would hasten to add that JMM was under alot of pressure to win for nationalistic reasons and the decisions against him in the past could have fueled him to step over the line. Yeah, I think he probably cheated. It's a shame because I don't believe Mannie is juicer.
HOW HYPOCRITICAL CAN YOU BE?
You are defending a man that did not want to take blood tests and refused to them even after the "false" allegations of Mayweather.
A man that goes from 135 knocking guy outs, and beating them to a pulp that are as big as 154+ on fight night.
Literally breaking bones on a bigger fighter. (Margs)
And yet.
You don't even consider that manny was juicing.
Yeah, you don't seem biased at all.
No, I used to use the ****, you twit. If you want to act childish and ignorant, then don't get in discussions and stick to the simpleton hater ****.
So, making baseless accusations and assumptions isn't childish?
Chavez is too strong for Marquez
it would take him a few rds to figure him out and get into a rhythm
but once he did he'd start to break Marquez down
Marquez is a better combination puncher, but Chavez has more power
Chavez also has the better chin and the better body attack
Chavez can cut off the ring and roll punches inside
people talk about him like he's just a brawler, but he can box
Marquez commands respect with his counterpunching
guys won't rush him because they're wary of walking into something
Chavez wouldn't take a backward step in the fight
Marquez would have to work more than he wants to
Chavez would win a UD in a tough fight
AGREED.
Marquez would get in his clean shots but ultimately succumb to the pressure.