Poll: Did Marquez juice for the fight?

He passed the test.no

Very interesting how the poll is divided almost perfectly even between those who say, "No" and those who say, "Yes" or "Suspicious" (I consider these last two similar) 128-135 at the present time.

Innocent until proven guilty, but I'm worried about the sport at the moment. This isn't just about Marquez, or Pacquiao, or Floyd, or anyone else. I wonder if we're heading towards a scandal that shows boxing to be as dirty as cycling. I hope I'm wrong.

@tachie83 So Mr. CONTE, you can tell body fat % and shaving 60% percent of this and that by t.v. AMAZING!!!! read all my posts before making dumb comments. I do this for a living. PEDs are good for recovery and great for personal fitness. I don't condone this in combat sports though lives are at stake. I take body fat percentages weekly. Please conduct yourself with intelligence and read all my post or don't comment if your too lazy to read them all. Regards, tachie83

lol @ pathetic Marquez fans using the argument of "well Pacquiao juiced as well!" Pac is the one who is aging properly as a fighter with his style. Yet Marquez the guy who needs reflexes with speed and hand eye coordination is only improving in those areas while pusing 40, just like his chin and power. Obviously Pac didn't juice or he would have won. And, his chin was definitely not juiced. Pac didn't visibly show signs of juicing. On the other hand, JMM looked like a late stage Gatti. Its not hard to see the obvious. I don't mean to discredit JMM because his win was important for Mexican morale. But, if the fight is used to advance the argument that he is anywhere in Pac's league as a boxer, then that argument is hereby smashed into a thousand pieces.

lol @ pathetic Marquez fans using the argument of "well Pacquiao juiced as well!" Pac is the one who is aging properly as a fighter with his style. Yet Marquez the guy who needs reflexes with speed and hand eye coordination is only improving in those areas while pusing 40, just like his chin and power.

Cool story bro. But getting back to the real world, Paquiao is medically ok after the concussion, JMM is cycling back down to prevent further heart damage, and the Philipino nation has recalled its navy of PT boats from their strafing run of the Mexican coast. It seems the nation is gradually returning to their national pasttime...blogging. See the wonders that take place after the truth comes out? lol okay man watever you say...smh

JMM is the man right now, and it's sad to see fans and even hbo trying to discredit his victory. Not only has JMM never failed a drug test, but he was always willing to submit to osdt just so long as his opponent would too. Cool story bro. But getting back to the real world, Paquiao is medically ok after the concussion, JMM is cycling back down to prevent further heart damage, and the Philipino nation has recalled its navy of PT boats from their strafing run of the Mexican coast. It seems the nation is gradually returning to their national pasttime...blogging. See the wonders that take place after the truth comes out?

JMM is the man right now, and it's sad to see fans and even hbo trying to discredit his victory. Not only has JMM never failed a drug test, but he was always willing to submit to osdt just so long as his opponent would too.

Well? I saw the veins of an Austrian body builder. I never saw them before. Not proof of anything, but I'm suspicious. Did Marquez juice up for PacMan? No he didn't but against Paqiao who's afraid of needles and random drug testing I can't blame any fighter who would juice just to level the playing field....against paqio...

Stupid Pacquiao backed himself into a corner on testing and paid for it. End thread //// Both fighters were on the juice. It was Pac's decision in the last 4 years to dodge all drug testing and thus allowing his opponent to juice themselves, so please stop crying you pac fans. I find it so funny to see all the people that were bashing Floyd for stricter testing crying now than Juan was on roids

I can be a Marquez fan and still suspect him of using. Exactly. i'm a Marquez fan too. Been one for a long time. i think JMM got obsessed with Pac and compromised his ethics and got on the sauce. I suppose we would all feel like that if we thought we won all three fights and got robbed(i thought Pac won: 1* scorecard,2, 3 could be a draw or pac won) Any honest person here would say "it looked suspicious". I mean, when Pac got dropped by a single right hand in the 3rd round don't tell me you weren't like WTF. Doesn't mean JMM is guilty but the fight did have some things that made you go hmmmm..... Pac's fault for walking into the right hand, no doubt but that first knock down was like uhhhh what's happened to Pac's chin or how did JMM get a power upgrade. how i see it....i can't say with 100% certainty that he did cheat but it is very suspicious imo. hiring a shady character like memo heredia (who tried concealing his identity) who is a ped chemist/guru who can easily create undetectable peds/designer peds for the right price is very suspect. memo heredia is not a strength and conditioning coach he is a chemist first and foremost. also after hiring heredia marquez at age 38-39 is still able to attain a ripped and almost bigger physique, and on top of that display one punching knockout power against a guy who's considered to have one of the better chins in boxing.... The "evidence" for JMM juicing is not for this one fight. The evidence if there is such a thing is over the last 5 years where he has been performing at the top 5 p4p level in his late 30s when guys in the 80s and earlier were usually shot by then. JMM looks the same this fight as he did a year ago. Maybe slightly more cut but that is hardly any proof. I think he is as suspicious as Pacman. But I love the irony in the win against Pac....JMM is as guilty or as innocent. Some of my favorite quotes from this thread. Put them together and they form my opinion on the matter.

ive taken steroids and i am absolutely positive he was on something what i dont know but for 100k im sure it is untraceable just like his trainer said

Once Marquez got Heredia, that was when the suspicion began. So can't say it was only in the last week after the loss. This was just amplified when people saw Marquez look bigger than ever BEFORE the fight. The two knock downs just amplified the suspicion even more. The quotes that I'm seeing about Heredia would make any unbiased person question. but its just suspicion. Nobody can say more than that. like these quotes? "I read anything I could find about medicine, spoke with other athletes, and soon people were saying: Angel knows how it's done. He knows how to pass the tests. The first athletes began to ask me for advice. That's how it started, and at some point the trainer Trevor Graham asked me if I could help him. I explained to him how epo works, and I was in business." "My father is a chemistry professor. I love chemistry, and I was an athlete. My role was an obsession. For example, I learned everything about testosterone: that there is a type of testosterone with a high half-life and another that works very quickly. I learned that you can rub it in, take it orally, inject it. It became a kick: I was allowed to work with the best of the best, and I made them even better." "You want an example? Everyone talks about epo. Epo is fashionable. But without adding iron, epo only works half as well. That's the kind of thing you have to know. There are oxygen carriers that make epo work incredibly fast – they are actually better than epo alone. I call my drug "Epo Boost." I inject it and it releases many tiny oxygen molecules throughout the body. In that way you increase the effect of epo by a factor of ten." "There are tablets for the kidneys that block the metabolites of steroids, so when athletes give a urine sample, they don't excrete the metabolites and thus test negative. Or there is an enzyme that slowly consumes proteins - epo has protein structures, and the enzyme thus ensures that the B sample of the doping test has a completely different value than the A sample. Then there are chemicals that you take a couple of hours before the race that prevent acidification in the muscles. Together with epo they are an absolute miracle. I've created 20 different drugs that are still undetectable for the doping testers." "I had one substance called actovison that increased blood circulation – not detectable. That was good from a health standpoint and even better from a competitive standpoint. Then we had the growth factors IGF-1 and IGF-2. And epo. Epo increases the number of red blood cells and thus the transportation of oxygen, which is the key for every athlete: the athlete wants to recover quickly, keep the load at a constantly high level and achieve a constant performance." "We have used creams that leave no trace and give the athlete a steadily higher testosterone levels." "Yes, the only difference is the quality of the doping. Athletes with little money use simple steroids and hope they don't get tested. The stars earn 50,000 dollars a month, not including starting bonuses and shoe sponsorship contracts. The very best invest 100,000 dollars – I'll then build you a designer drug that can't be detected." "Designer drugs are composed of several different chemicals that trigger the desired reaction. At the end of the chain I change one or two molecules in such a way that the entire structure is undetectable for the doping testers." "What's happening now is laughable. It's a token. They should save their money – or give it to me. I'll give it to the orphans of Mexico! There will be doping for as long as there is commercial sports, performance-related shoe contracts and television." "Peak performances without doping are a fairytale, my friend." "I believe we should authorize the use of epo, IGF and testosterone, as well as adrenaline and epitestosterone – substances that the body produces itself. Simply for pragmatic reasons, because it is impossible to detect them, and also because of the fairness aspect." "Track and field, swimming, cross-country skiing and cycling can no longer be saved. Golf? Not clean either. Soccer? Soccer players come to me and say they have to be able to run up and down the touchline without becoming tired, and they have to play every three days. Basketball players take fat burners – amphetamines, ephedrin. Baseball? Haha. Steroids in pre-season, amphetamines during the games. Even archers take downers so that their arm remains steady. Everyone dopes." http://www.fighthype.com/pages/content11165.html

Its amazing how the level of proof- the eye test and jealousy-is suddenly the gold standard for ped detection. Another boxer and his fans used that level and it was discredited. Its also amazing how in the last week the comission testing suddenly became outdated too. Once Marquez got Heredia, that was when the suspicion began. So can't say it was only in the last week after the loss. This was just amplified when people saw Marquez look bigger than ever BEFORE the fight. The two knock downs just amplified the suspicion even more. The quotes that I'm seeing about Heredia would make any unbiased person question. but its just suspicion. Nobody can say more than that.

In the last fight, Marquez had bulk in the neck he never had before. In this fight, he had the veins. Just an observation. There is no doubt Marquez is a great boxer and is capable of beating just about anybody in his weight range. But, I am suspicious that the pressure to avenge Mexican boxing got to his ethics. Isn't Mexican boxing an oxymoron?

Its amazing how the level of proof- the eye test and jealousy-is suddenly the gold standard for ped detection. Another boxer and his fans used that level and it was discredited. Its also amazing how in the last week the comission testing suddenly became outdated too. "Commission testing". LOL When the eye reveals cranial bone mass changes, zits at 30-40, new striation, sudden bulk, insta veins, and nothing left in the ball sack (assuming one would want to see that), the topic of "commission testing" instantly produces a good round of Homeric laughter. ...and money in the pockets of everybody involved...

Because none of this has ever been about the integrity of the sport to them. Now more than ever it is painfully obvious that all that ever mattered to most Pacquiao fans was all the "Pinoy Pride" nationalism stuff. Its amazing how the level of proof- the eye test and jealousy-is suddenly the gold standard for ped detection. Another boxer and his fans used that level and it was discredited. Its also amazing how in the last week the comission testing suddenly became outdated too.

Stupid Pacquiao backed himself into a corner on testing and paid for it. No. He paid for it because nobody in Mexico gives a damn whether JMM juiced or not. lol Getting by a test is not terribly difficult these days. In fact, the system is designed to do it...because of money. So Pacquiao says to himself, "screw the tests, I'll beat him anyway."

here's what I don't get ... MArquez gets a pass from most of these Floyd and Marquez lovers .. but when Manny was on his win streak against non-defensive fighters everyone jumps on the haterade ... MArquez gets psycho dieseled after hiring a known criminal/pharmacist... Gets KO power he has never displayed before...and he gets a pass it is what it is....even pac's move up from super fw to ww isn't that shocking when you realize that at 130 his fight night weight was anywhere between 142-145..and pac weighed-in against cotto at 144 and on fight night he was 148 i think...so when you look at those facts, pac's move up from sfw to ww isn't all that shocking. it was just him not having to cut as much weight lol.... however, heredia is a known ped dealer/chemist/guru/user ..the guy is obssessed with chemistry and peds.. and after hiring heredia, marquez showed a pretty ripped/big physique for a 39 year old and on top of that he all of a sudden has this incredible one punch KO power. c'mon...if you look at all of this then yah it's suspect as hell....