Abe_Attell

He must be boring then if he is fighting like Willie Pep. "I will not stay up to watch him fight" will be watching the Hatton vs. Castillo match since those are real men fighting.;)

Hell no. He was short on a quick explanation to his skyrocket test levels and came up with that one like the doctor was stupid. Like the doctor would really believe that someone with a 55 inch chest, a six pack, back pimples and veins bulging from every orifice got those kind of test levels from creatine. "back pimples" is what gives it away, but only if it is severe. Then again, I knew a kid who had to go on Accutane because he didn't get rid of his acne from his teenage years; he was 26. Elevated Testosterone levels can give you pimples anyway, especially if you have oily skin in your family or just break out with simple irration. Doctors have a hard time believing a lot of patience, especially young adults. They just assume that you either have been on drugs or still are.

I don't know. Marciano would knock out his opponents in minutes. Dempsey would do it in seconds! I would say Dempsey is more vicious. Compare Marciano's upbringing, and early lifestyle as a fighter, than look at Dempsey's, now tell me who was the "Hungrier" fighter. Even in a "poor" Italian family, it can be great. Lets just say Dempsey wasn't walking around under 200lbs because he wanted to, at least not early on.

Weren't we talking about "Heavyweights" ? because if it is open to all weight classes, P4P, Marciano is not the best, especially when you compare his resume with others.

I'm still in shock that he pick "Wladimir" Klitschko as the best white heavyweight ever. Even Vitali would have shocked me but Dempsey and Marciano blow both Klitschkos away by thousands of miles. Forget that they are even white, they are regarded as two of the best heavyweights ever to step foot in the ring. The problem is, could Marciano take Wlad's punch? I vote for Dempsey...I think he would beat the Rock, prime vs prime.

Dempsey was inactive for 3 years I believe. That's Dempsey's fault though, he openly avoided many challengers. Agree, it is his fault, but if you had to choose from getting beaver from Hollywood actresses, making a lot of money doing promotional work, etc. or boxing, which would you pick?

Gene Tunney was interviewed once and tunney said that when he fought Dempsey, he had the feeling that Dempsey wanted to kill him, and he never felt that way against any other opponent according to Tunney. Well Tunney was lucky he fought a Dempsey that wasn't in his prime.

Even though the other knockdowns were more brutal than the last, the last knock-down he suffered was behind the ear...it seemed to me at the time that when he got up, took a few steps, then waived it off, he probably had blurry vision, dizziness, ringing in the ear, or something on those lines...that or he just said, "Fuck this, next time I might not be getting back up" It could of gotten worse, maybe if he did continue he could of been another casuality to the sport. People seem to forget that he he got up from some brutal knock-downs before he quit...he could of just stayed down after the first one that dropped him flat on his back and acted like he was sleeping like so many others have, till the ref waived off the fight, but he didn't. In the last knockdown he could of just stayed down, but he didn't. It seems it was OK for others, like Arguello, but not Freitas. Maybe he is a "Coward" in some eyes for "quitting", but he is still more of a man than the norm...at least he had the balls to step into the ring...when he got knocked down from some brutal shots, he got up, but it was just to much for him to go on. There is that unwritten rule that says, "You never give up, no matter what", but shit happens...that written rule will not replace a father to a family, but then again maybe you should find another line of work

I don't really care for UFC, but i have to say that this is the reason why Gary Shaw is now taking part in UFC and getting a stable of fighters to promote and manage. So Shaw can make more profite and screw over the UFC fighters. In an article i read Shaw actually said, "boxers ask for too much money" what he really mean "i don't make enough profite" even though i ain't taking in the punchs or the difficult training that boxers go through".QUOTE] You serious? If true, FUCKING SON OF A BITCH NEEDS TO BE KNOCKED THE FUCK OUT...FIGHTERS ARE GETTING SCREWED, THEY ALWAYS HAVE BEEN...FIGHTERS BACK IN THE DAY, LIKE MARCIANO, HAD 50% TAKING OUT OF THEIR PURSE FROM PROMOTERS/MANAGERS, AND THAT ISN'T EVEN INCLUDING WHAT UNCLE SAM TOOK OUT, which isn't so bad as long as the money is going to good use. I remember reading an article way back about Fighters in the 20's and how they could get screwed out of their entire purse, or maybe get a few bucks when it was all said and done. Look at my Name, ABE ATTELL, he was a knockout artist early on, but found out that it is better to make bets on yourself because that is how you are going to make money, not through the Promoters...he would actually hold guys up, wait till the round he bet on, say the 8th, then knock the guy out.

it does have some to do with it but htere small becuase he took steroids and didnt do squats, just upper body, wlad used to be huge until he starting fightin in the us, apperently he stopped when he came here. Emanuel Stewart told him to stop the heavy lifting because it effects stamina and agility

neils7147933 good post...I am for people changing opinons/ideas, or "evolving" in their opinions/ideas based on new information or circumstances, but Bush and his people call this "Flip-Flop", so in this case he is a hypocrite.

Mike Tyson power was good enough to knock out Robin Givens but that is about it.Well Givens,bums and fighters Don King paid to take a dive against Tyson like Seldom did. Has Tyson knocked out a hall of famer yet besides a 40 year old Holmes?Nope.Could Tyson knock out the glass chin Douglas?Nope.Could he hurt a washed up Holyfield?Nope could he hurt a weak Chin Lennox Lewis?No could he even beat the china chin Mcbride?Nope.When he does one of these then i will say he has the power to knock out guys who are either past their primes or just complete bums.The only people who think Tyson has power or still talk about him are ***s like the little boy who made this post and white guys who feel bad for Tyson because he is a mentally retarded black man who loves raping women. And Marciano?You know who think he has power?Racist white guys who no nothing about boxing.The ones who only know Marciano went undefeated by don't realize he ducked every black fighter unless they had 40 plus loses or were pushing 40 or even older or were natually middleweights and none of them he stopped in the first round.Even though guys like Achie Moore was knocked out in 1 round a couple times when he was in this prime by other middleweights. Holmes was old, and if Holmes would of retired afterwards I would of probably thought that Larry's chin was not the same, but time and fights showed that even an older Larry Holmes would only be knocked out by Mike Tyson. It's kind of hard to judge Tyson because he was still so young, his body, though appearing matured, was probably not at its fully maturity; reaching full maturity in the mid to late 20's is when a "man" knows his true strength. By the time he came out of prison, who knows how much it took out of his once great potential strength.

i read somewhere that tyson was measured between 1400-1600 psi. i also read that lacy was near 1200. According to Kevin Rooney, Tyson's power was never measured, nor would he be allowed to be measured because if he was injured, it would make them look foolish...MONEY is to be made in fights, not punching some machine to test your ego. Rooney said, Bill Cayton would of never allowed it, not worth the chance of injury.

because Kostya Tszyu has that "russian/euro" style of fighting, he tends to have trouble fighting on the inside: his style now looks different from when he started in the amatuers, and even when he was a younger Pro. Maybe it is age...he doesn't move his head at all like he used to, nor does he have that aggression...he also tends to get caught up in his hype and starts to revert back to the Vince Philip-Tszyu, where he thinks he can stand toe to toe and knock you out with his power; he also becomes to relaxed after a big win and loses that hunger. For his style: he doesn't keep his punches close to his body, which is one of his problems when fighting on the inside...look at Duran, Tyson, and yes, Hatton, all keep their punches close/tight, to make the punches shorter, more compact with power, and have the ability to throw quick combinations. He also doesn't stick his jab, he just likes to use it to measure {which isn't really part of that style because Wlad loves to stick the jab into his opponents face}. He rarely throws the uppercut, which would of been another good weapon against Hatton. He doesn't side step like he should, nor does he use the defensive gaurd right. I highly doubt it would of been hard for someone like Tszyu to alter his style a bit...like, Stick the jab, used as a weapon, not a measuring stick...or throw short, compact, punches...move his head...keep his guard up when being attacked, etc. TSZYU NEEDED AN AMERICAN TRAINER No matter what, Hatton used the "Grapple" way of fighting to wear down the older, much more inactive fighter because he knew this was the way to win...if he thought he could out-box Tszyu, he would of, but obviously he was right on his understanding he couldn't without wearing him out first...why? because he was starting to get out-boxed by a 35 year old, inactive, injury prone, now tired from 6 rounds of grappling, fighter...if it wasn't for the fatigue, Tszyu would of won in my opinion. I was acutally surprised that Hatton was having trouble with the fatigued Tszyu.

They said Ali also had hand problems and had to be injected with pain killers before most of his early fights, later the problems went away and he sat down on his punches noticeably more in his later fights. I guess the media raved about Foreman's and Frazier's strength because they fought like they were strong (Foreman really was) and Ali fought like a small fighter early in his career. Never knew he had hand problems in his early part of his career...you do thicken as you age into your 20's to early 30's.

Which Ali? The one that weighed 206 or the one that weighed 220? I don't trust some of the listed stats though because Tyson and Foreman's arms are supposedly 16 inches. My arms are 16 inches and I seriously doubt they are as big as a prime Foreman's arms lol I have seen guys measure two different ways, unflexed and flexed, so if I had to take a guess, it was unflexed. You have to remember it is not good to have really big arms in boxing...the bigger your arms in boxing, having to throw so many punches, will wear you out faster.

It also depends on who your fighting also,some people can take good shots some don't. U can be the sorriest fucker in the world and have a excellent chin and a good body TEX COBB?????....this guy might have been the most skilled fighter, but he had heart, and was a wall

Did you read the qoutes? man he made these fighters bones rattle hahaha, Rocky would be a great fight against tyson he would beat tyson cause he had better stamina and rocky had ton more heart too. Rocky feared no one in that ring! I believe Ali could have outboxed him but one punch would lay anyone out you would have to do alot of running. Not this shit again, lol... I like Rocky, and I am not one to always mention size because sometimes it can be the most overrated thing, but Tyson was bigger, stronger, faster, more accurate with his punches, just basically a better fighter all around, at least in his prime. There was a good article on another webiste that had Dempsey vs Marciano, why Dempsey would win...it was pretty convincing...I expect the same for Tyson. Lets not forget that Walcott was giving Marciano all that he could handle in the first fight, and Walcott was absorbing Marciano's punches, many landing flush from about the 6th round on. I don't think Tyson would of took that long in beating a faded, balding, Joe Louis either. Roland LaStarza also gave him trouble in the first fight...some even believe Rocky lost that fight. Rocky fought a lot of fighters that though are "Great" fighters, are really light-heavyweights, at the most cruiserweights. you could also use that old argument that they used even around his time, that he was fighting "older" fighters. Lets just say that a lot of these fighters took more poundings than Paris Hilton's vagina I am not bashing him at all, just stating a few things to those that want to make everybody that is undefeated like they are some type of God. Ask yourself this, if Maricano fought Louis in his prime, Ali, Dempsey, Foreman, Tyson, etc. would he still be undefeated? and yes, the same goes for Tyson

true. but he wasnt built like a power puncher he didnt have the powerful shoulders that most power punches have. But he wasnt slow like a man his size either! very light on his feet for a man his size so he made up for it in his agility. Have you ever really looked at Ali's wing span...his shoulders are quite broad...his chest measurements are pretty impressive too...They say when Sonny Liston, and even Foreman got into the ring with Ali that they realized that Ali wasn't as "Small"...Ali actually looked like the bigger man, but it is this perception that your "Power punch" is what makes you Godzilla

I think Ali's dancing is overrated. In most of quality wins he did very little dancing. I think he was a very good defensive fighter more than a dancer. This is my opinion though that his wins over Sonny Liston are disgustingly overrated. As I believe liston is disugtingly overrated, as mainly a means of propping up Ali's legacy. A man who got more gift decscions and positive press coverage than any other fighter in history. He should of lost to an array of fighters who you might consider as somewhat mediocre. The win over Foreman as I state in my undying thread in boxing history in the only thing cementing what is his "legacy." His "legacy" besides the drama for the Frazier fights and victory over Foreman is shit. Mostly consisting of running his mouth over black pantheresque views. WOW, that is all I am going to say

for 1 thing..during marciano times...those werent really boxing gloves..but like paded mits...imaging TUA PETER L.LEWIS TYSON KLITCHKOS hitting somebody with 1 of those damn mits..it would be alot of casaulities in boxing I am not sure on the exact facts, but I think they were 8 oz, and padded with horse hair. If you take that into the equation then you have to give a lot of these guys credit for taking the punishment

Marciano had something he had MENTAL and physical toughness ala Marvin Hagler! He had that hunger till the end. Marciano fought like Buster douglas when he beat tyson except Rocky fought like that every right. Joe louis said marciano was the hardest hitter he ever faced, remember also marciano has some heavy hands and big bones Mike tyson has smaller wrists smaller frame and alot of muscle packed on it. Like I said this is a slugfest and this fight can go either way. I feel like "Mr. Clean" :D Was that a "trained and motivated" Tyson that fought Buster? Did Tyson have Kevin Rooney there? Tyson was smaller framed? Rocky Marciano:.......................Mike Tyson: Height: 5'10 1/4.......................5'11 1/2 Weight: 184.............................218 Reach: 68...............................71 Chest/Norm: 39.........................43 Chest/Exp: 42...........................45 Waist: 32...............................34 Biceps: 14..............................16 Neck: 16 3/4............................19 3/4 Wrist: 7 1/2............................8 Calf: 14 3/4............................18 Ankle: 10...............................11 Thigh: 22...............................27 Fist: 11 1/2............................13 Forearm: 12.............................14 http://www.ibhof.com/ibhftape.htm I don't have any Lab tests on either of them so I can't tell you how high their horomone count is/was http://www.forwardtimes.com/images/mike-tyson.gif http://wokkil.pair.com/postpix/marcianox.jpg Rocky was one tough S.O.B. but every fighter has their faults, it's called being human

the initial post was a good read. but, what i find funny is how some people, like teddy atlas, go on about how punchers are born and not made. i would call that nothing more than pure b#llshit. i happen to know a few people who happened to develope a powerful punch, and were not naturally born with the "gift" of heavy hands. hell, even jack dempsey himself dedicates a whole chapter to this myth. just wait 'till tszyu divulges some of his "secrets" when he officially retires. and the answers might surprise you. you can build power...the key is to reach your full potential Lets not get way to ahead of ourselves though...I don't care how much Tszyu has worked on his "Power", he hasn't seemed to develop that power on the level of Foreman's has he There is a good portion of it that has to do with GENETICS, the other part is hard work/devoloping your "gift" Next thing you are going to tell me is that you will be able to run like Bo Jackson, all you need to do is to know the "secrets." Well here is the secret, he is BO Jackson and you are not :D

^don't count the rock out! Tyson in his prime intimidated opponents! tyson weigh like 220 pounds back then! most of tysons opponents didnt have to courage to not freeze up and slug with him, when someone wasnt scared of tyson he lost! Buster douglas,evander,and danny williams. Evander was not the most powerful puncher he was a small heavy and he had all upper body and chicken legs imagine Tyson vs Tua that would be the closest we could hope for. lol, this shit keeps getting repeated...I guess for the first 37 fights or so that nobody threw a punch at Tyson :rolleyes: Trevor Berbick, though looking scared, even came out swining until his ass got caught. How about Razor Ruddock? Seriously, I made a "New Topic" on this before, Tyson's skills are what people feared more than his stare...when you have a guy that is 220lbs with speed, power, accuracy, and a killer determination to "F" you up, you are going to be scared. Remember, even if Tyson did scare the shit out of people, have we forgotten that the PSYCHOLOGICAL BATTLE IS A BIG PART OF WARFARE...Tyson said it himself, the better fighter is the one that can keep his "Composure" If I am going to go up against a Siberian Tiger I am going to be scared...I don't care how big my balls are, I know that Tiger is bigger, stronger, faster, more accurate, big ass fangs, and those eyes tell me that he hasn't been fed in days :D

Did you read the qoutes? man he made these fighters bones rattle hahaha, Rocky would be a great fight against tyson he would beat tyson cause he had better stamina and rocky had ton more heart too. Rocky feared no one in that ring! I believe Ali could have outboxed him but one punch would lay anyone out you would have to do alot of running. Yes, because all the Rock had to do is land one punch and it would bring down a building... Ali, man this guy would get knocked out if Rocky landed one of his "Suzie Q's" :rolleyes: Ali fought Shavers, Frazier and Foreman, yet he managed not to get knocked out...hell, when Ali had parkinsons and fought Larry Holmes, Larry couldn't knock him to the ground. Its OK though, when I was young I had my illusions about certain fighters...its a great thing to have and a sad thing to lose, so maybe you should just block out what I say

How about Holyfield? He handled Tyson and hes not exactly a superheavyweight; all it took was some skill and determination. I think the Rock was every bit Evander's equal in each each of those things except Rock hit a hell of a lot harder. The Rock would crush Mike's body and spirit. Well I guess if you count a man that hasn't trained since he left Rooney, spent some time in jail, didn't get back on track, yeah, I say that was a fair fight ;) How do you know Rock hit harder than Holyfield? How long did it take again to knock out Walcott, Charles, LaStarza, etc.? When I was a kid I used to think all that Rocky and Tyson had to do was hit you once and you would fall, but guess what, I grew up and watched fights and I found it wasn't true. A lot more people held Tyson than they did Marciano, just another quick little fact

Ali was really a very weak puncher for a man of his size. He really was quite a huge guy if you ever look at his stats. He has a lot of knockouts though for a guy with a "weak punch" He isn't a powerfull puncher, but the guy has some type of punch...you also have to remember that he displayed better power when he sat on his punches, rather than just throwing it on the move...Floyd Mayweather Jr. displays good, not great, power when he decides to sit on his punches. Ali wasn't "Weak" either...the guy might not have had a big punch, but he was able to push back Frazier, Shavers, and Foreman, who were supposedly "Stronger." I bet Larry Allen (NFL) is stronger than Foreman in lifting, but he can't punch like Foreman

Yea, this is true. He even shot the gun in the air to scare Tyson. Atlas was a true gansta. He robbed places like it was his job. And he got stabbed in the face. His life story is a true "rags to riches" story. I hope you are joking, then again, I guess being "Gangsta" is being a bit of a pussy/bully...I would of liked to see Atlas without a gun vs Mike, and if he would of stood up to George if it wasn't in front of the cameras; like Mike was really going to stand up to a gun, or George was going to mess up his new reputation of being the "Good Guy." A lot of "Gangstas" do this though: they are tough when they out-number you, or have a weapon when you don't.

If you look at Tyson's story it seems he was never truly a "Fighter": From some of the stories I read/heard, in his early childhood he hung around girls only because he was afraid of the boys in the neighborhood...then as legend has it, his bird's head was ripped off and Mike went crazy on the kid...Mike then started to become "Tyson" and started to hang with that crowd...he probably became a "Bully" because he was bullied; to be accepted by such people he followed...so when he is fighting in a boxing match, it is pure anger against who he was/is, who he fought against, who "They" wanted him to be...I really don't think Mike ever wanted to fight, but since boxing was a way out, he took it. If anything, if you look at it, Mike was always being used...not saying it wasn't his fault, but all the blame really can't be just placed on Mike, it has to be blamed on everybody that was present and absent in his life...Psychology is a bitch. Just look at what he supposedly did with his money, he always gave it away to people; basically anybody, especially those that look like they needed it. True professional boxers like the money side of the sport, but Mike seemed to shun part of this side, even though he liked to party and feel some of that power that money brought ;) :D ...though those are just the stories that I read/heard, which is an outside perception, so until Mike himself gives his side of the story, it is a bit unfair.

cutting open both of his eyes in the first fight isnt? Or how he got a 3 inch gash in his left eye in the second. Nah Holyfield deserved this. lol, that is what Rahman said