I got this from another website and I thought it was very interesting. This past week Teddy Atlas was on the Jim Rome show and he gave some insights on Mike Tyson.
He talked about Mike and told a few stories of how he believed Mike never had that internal confidence or fortitude to be the great fighter he should have been.
The one story was when Mike was 16 and was engaged in an amatuer fight with a big white kid. Up to this point, in his amatuer career, he was killing everyone. Just one knockout after another. But in this fight Mike knocked the kid down twice in the first round. However, unlike his previous opponents the kid kept getting up. After the 1st round had ended he went back to his corner and told Teddy to stop the fight because his hand was broken. Teddy said that he knew it wasn't and feared that Mike was playing games. But he had to see if it was broke just in case. So he grabbed Mikes hand and squeezed it as hard as he could. Mike didn't even flinch. He continued to stare over Teddy's shoulder at his opponent. Atlas told Mike that 'your hand ain't broke, you're broke'. He could tell that Mike was scared. Up till now, everyone stayed down but this kid was game. Even though his opponent refused to stay down Mike was still easily winning the fight and he told Mike this.
Tyson begrudgingly went out for round two. Mike dropped him twice more in this round but once again, the kid kept getting up. So at the end of the round, Mike again sits down and tells Atlas to stop the fight because he's exhausted and he's going to get killed. Atlas got very angry at this point. He started yelling at Mike that he wasn't even getting hit. All of this kids shots were either missing or winging off of Mikes gloves and shoulders. He said that if he were the ref he'd have stopped the fight a long time ago because Mike was busting him up.
But he could tell that Mike was scared. Because this kid wasn't playing the role of the helpless lamb, he didn't know how to handle it. Eventually, Atlas had to grab Mike and literally shove him back into the ring to get him to fight.
The 3rd round starts and Mike and his opponent are just hugging each other. Neither one is punching just mauling. But then, at one point, the white kid is pushing Mike against the ropes and Atlas sees that Mike is going to go down - just like in the McBride fight, Teddy points out. Atlas jumps on the edge of the canvas and yells at Mike "Don't you do what I think you're going to do!". Eventually the bell rang and Mike got the "W" but like Atlas pointed out, he was going to tank the fight simply because this kid was standing up to him and he'd never experienced that before.
Atlas said that the same thing kind of happened in the Tucker and Bonecrusher fights. Mike was winning both fights easily until about the 5th and 6th rounds, when he realised that neither guy was going to just take a shot and lay down, so he decided to accept what Teddy called "silent treaties". A silent treatie is when both fighters clinch and silently agree to not throw punches. Kind of like "I won't hit you if you don't hit me". Atlas said that both Tucker and Bonecrusher didn't mind agreeing to these because they didn't want to get hurt.
Teddy then pointed out that the first fighter that stood up to Mike was Buster Douglas and he knocked Mike out. The week before the Douglas fight Buster's mom had died and Buster was in the mind set of "Your punches won't hurt nearly as much as the pain I'm in from this death".
Atlas agreed that Mike had incredible physical tools and should have retired one of the all time greats. But his mental weaknesses were always his downfall and the reason why he never developed to his full potential.
Anyway, I thought it was an interesting interview. I've always been a huge Mike Tyson fan but I had to agree with a lot of what Atlas said.
When Mike lost to Lewis he took quite a beating. Atlas said that in the Lewis, Holyfield and Buster losses, he was a 'game loser'. Someone that wouldn't quit but wouldn't fight back either. They would take their shots and get KO'd but they wouldn't fight back. He said that's what Tyson was.
It hurt to hear things that like but he's right. In all of Tyson's losses he never dug deep and tried to win. He would take his shots and not go down but he wouldn't fight back. If Mike Tyson had the mentality and heart of an Evander Holyfield I believe Mike would have retired at 30 years old, undefeated and with a crap load of money.
I don't always agree with what Atlas says, but I do believe that he is a very tough guy. Wasn't that part of the deal with Cus ... that he would pick out some of the meanest guys around and train them. Regardless of how Floyd P. went out against Charles L. wasn't he supposed to have been a real good street thug before Cus brought him in?
Floyd Patterson was in juve when Cus brought him in. He was a young knucklehead getting into a lot of trouble.
"If not for boxing, I'd be dead or in prison"- Floyd P.
Atlas was a true gansta. He robbed places like it was his job. And he got stabbed in the face. His life story is a true "rags to riches" story.
Wasn't Teddy's dad a doctor and Teddy grew up in an upper middle-class home?
Anyway, I don't like Teddy because he's an overrated trainer and a hypocrite, but he is a tough (and kind of crazy) guy.
And I don't blame him for pulling a gun on Tyson. So what if Tyson was a teenager? He was a 200 pound teenager trained to hurt people.
BTW, when they say Atlas was a gangsta they arent talking about the ghetto thugs of today. The old type gangster. Little bit of a difference. And not like it matters. By the time he put the gun to Tyson's head he was way past that.
I'm still trying to figure out who Tyson really beat to be that great. He crumbled in front of Evander, Lewis made him look like a punching bag. He got a lot of KO's but most of them were against nobody's.
and Atlas is always right. When he predicts the winner of a fight, he's right. On FNF, he always gets the winner right. The only mistake he made in memory is Augutus vs Burton. And he was RIGHT anyway. And his tips are some of the best around cause he Cus teach him how to train.
IMO, Atlas knows the most about boxing and its mechanics. He should definetly get more praise.
teddy atlas would have been a good fighter if he didnt hurt his back and get scoliosis or w/e. Cus told him that he had the hardest right hand he had ever seen at his age. And when he was fighting in the amatures he was KOin guys Tyson style.
atlas is a tyson hater u dont become undisputed hwc, without being a fighter, especally when your undersized, he won tough fights against ruddock and tucker and kept coming, though i agree he did have a lack of confidence a bit, but still had enough to accomplish alot and would of accomplished more if he didnt spend half of his prime in jail
I don't always agree with what Atlas says, but I do believe that he is a very tough guy. Wasn't that part of the deal with Cus ... that he would pick out some of the meanest guys around and train them. Regardless of how Floyd P. went out against Charles L. wasn't he supposed to have been a real good street thug before Cus brought him in?
If you look at Tyson's story it seems he was never truly a "Fighter":
From some of the stories I read/heard, in his early childhood he hung around girls only because he was afraid of the boys in the neighborhood...then as legend has it, his bird's head was ripped off and Mike went crazy on the kid...Mike then started to become "Tyson" and started to hang with that crowd...he probably became a "Bully" because he was bullied; to be accepted by such people he followed...so when he is fighting in a boxing match, it is pure anger against who he was/is, who he fought against, who "They" wanted him to be...I really don't think Mike ever wanted to fight, but since boxing was a way out, he took it.
If anything, if you look at it, Mike was always being used...not saying it wasn't his fault, but all the blame really can't be just placed on Mike, it has to be blamed on everybody that was present and absent in his life...Psychology is a bitch.
Just look at what he supposedly did with his money, he always gave it away to people; basically anybody, especially those that look like they needed it. True professional boxers like the money side of the sport, but Mike seemed to shun part of this side, even though he liked to party and feel some of that power that money brought ;) :D ...though those are just the stories that I read/heard, which is an outside perception, so until Mike himself gives his side of the story, it is a bit unfair.
Yea, this is true. He even shot the gun in the air to scare Tyson.
Atlas was a true gansta. He robbed places like it was his job. And he got stabbed in the face. His life story is a true "rags to riches" story.
I hope you are joking, then again, I guess being "Gangsta" is being a bit of a pussy/bully...I would of liked to see Atlas without a gun vs Mike, and if he would of stood up to George if it wasn't in front of the cameras; like Mike was really going to stand up to a gun, or George was going to mess up his new reputation of being the "Good Guy."
A lot of "Gangstas" do this though: they are tough when they out-number you, or have a weapon when you don't.
According to a biograpghy I saw, Atlas put a gun to Tyson's head and threatened his life.
Yea, this is true. He even shot the gun in the air to scare Tyson.
Atlas was a true gansta. He robbed places like it was his job. And he got stabbed in the face. His life story is a true "rags to riches" story.
no Tyson fan will say hes the greatest but one of the greatest and its true... as much as u would like to believe hes not cuz of his life after prison and out the ring he woulda gave any all time great a tough fight and maybe even win...tha point is no one knows what Tyson woulda done against Marciano...Ali...Forman...NO ONE...so to say they would beat him is ignorant cuz u really dont kno u are only going on what u hear...
I say he's the greatest. He had more heart than most will ever know. From 85 to 90 he was a force of nature. If he hadnt been hung over and bored, he would he KO'd Buster. Actully he did in the 8th round. If they had a rematch, I would bet my life Tyson would win by KO. Even after a 3 and a half year lay off w/o ANY training he won back the WBC and WBA belts. He didnt just "win" or "beat" someone... he totally BROKE them! NO ONE could have stopped him the night he KO'd Spinks. If it wasnt for him I wouldnt even have known about boxing. I say he's the greatest.
I wouldn't say that his mentality didn't match his fighting style, I'd say it was intertwined with it but he had a hard time controling it when Cus was not around. The premise was that if he ever felt fear in the ring he would project those emotions onto his opponent, giving the impression of an irresistable force which really discouraged his opponents. Sometimes he would internalize his fear though and become discouraged by himself more than the opponent.
Seems like Tyson is in the wrong game then. He needs to be in WWF/WWA or Ultimate challenge or something. This is BOXING, its a science to it.
unless he had the type of style that makes it fun when u get old u loose that killer instinct..then u should just be havin fun..the styles of ali holmes james toney archie moore made it fun for them cuz they boxed..tyson was a fighter had to bite his teeth pound his gloves and attack even tho he was perfect and even thou he was flawless till 1990 still a fighter..its all mental his personality didnt match his fighting style..if u watch bone crusher smith u can see tyson loose his cool and start dancing and boxing that was his natural way to fight..fighting cusdmatos way became work tyson should of fought like archie moore walcott or toney and with the drive he once had he coulda fought into his 50s successfully
tyson was a meticulous genius perfectionist if he couldnt knock u out he would get depressed even if he was winning easy ...he been boxing the last 15 years with no technique at all just natural althetism...he dont like to fight boxign aint a sport to tyson its a fight