Is Rocky Marciano as respected as he should be?

[Toffee]

Beat everyone = weak era

It's ironic that there's more credit in avenging defeat than there is in avoiding defeat.

But it's all very subjective.

[BoloShot]

I don't deny he retired at a good time. I just think with his resume filled with mostly older names it gives him question marks that will never be answered & always be speculated on by the atg dorks. Maybe he'd have KO'd Sonny in 3, maybe Sonny would have KO'd him in 3. Who's to say who's right. No one.

Let the what ifs remain what they were I guess and appreciate the achievements of the man. He beat some very good fighters apart from the old guys. Hell all those old guys were still serviceable too, none of them were shot.

[BoloShot]

Beat everyone = weak era

It's ironic that there's more credit in avenging defeat than there is in avoiding defeat.

But it's all very subjective.

It's true, like how Ali's era was considered strong even though it really wasn't all that stronger than any regular era. It's easy to single out the limited abilities of Frazier and Foreman. Norton was the most complete guy of that era and then again I thought he beat Ali every time they fought. Got unlucky against Holmes too, he was just unlucky in general.

[buge]

51 year old, past prime Bernard Hopkins was favored to beat the younger Joe Smith Jr. Those odds can’t be used to say Smith Jr fought a formidable version of Hopkins. Ever. Odds can’t change at what stage a fighter is.

Odds don’t prevent someone from being way past it. If anything if Louis was really favored at 37 and with mental health issues over the younger and fresher Marciano, it says more about Marciano than it does about Louis.

Here is an example fantasy fight:

If Manny Pacquiao fights Danny Garcia next month, he would be favored, probably by a pretty wide margin. However, Pacquiao is past prime. People/odds makers don’t care how past it he is. He’s Manny Pacquiao. Pacquiao is an ATG, HOF’er, has better wins, and will retire as being tons better than DSG. But then DSG KO’’s him, catches him off guard in an exchange. Pacquiao goes out cold. Pacquiao announced his retirement from the sport after the fight.

Literally no boxing fan on Earth would end up caring about that outcome. And no, Pacquiao being favored didn’t mean he was still a good opponent. It just would mean that people thought so lowly of DSG and so highly of Pacquiao, that they didn’t think that DSG could beat even a way past prime version of Pacquiao. But look at that, DSG proved everyone wrong in this fantasy fight. He actually was able to beat the past prime HOF’er that would have wiped the floor with him as far back as 5-10 years ago. Round of applause for DSG for beating a Pacquiao who was a shell of his former self.

Pac is still a high quality fighter, #10 P4P in The Ring.

You are crazy if you think someone (e.g. DSG) beating Pac now wouldn't count as a quality win when looking back on that guy's career. It may not mean he could beat a prime Pac (although it would at least open the discussion), but that's not what we're talking about.

Joe Louis was the #1 contender prior to the KO loss to Marciano. https://boxrec.com/media/index.php/T..._Ratings:_1950

After that ranking, but before the fight with Marciano, as the #1 contender Joe Louis KO'd the #2 contender on that list.

Joe Louis was still #6 ranked HW after the KO loss to Marciano. https://boxrec.com/media/index.php/T..._Ratings:_1951

It's a quality win, regardless of whether Joe Louis was better earlier in his career.

What mental illness did Louis have? He was broke and needed money, like plenty of boxers past & present.

[Marchegiano]

I don't deny he retired at a good time. I just think with his resume filled with mostly older names it gives him question marks that will never be answered & always be speculated on by the atg dorks. Maybe he'd have KO'd Sonny in 3, maybe Sonny would have KO'd him in 3. Who's to say who's right. No one.

Marciano won the title before Sonny debuted.

Liston got to the title a full decade after Marciano.

[Eff Pandas]

Let the what ifs remain what they were I guess and appreciate the achievements of the man. He beat some very good fighters apart from the old guys. Hell all those old guys were still serviceable too, none of them were shot.

I appreciate everyone's achievements. No argument from me Rocky was among the best of his day.

BUT when we get into these atg dork debates or just overrated or underrated like got brought up here we gotta be realer & take things apart a little more.

Looking at Rocky's title run idk that it's THAT quality a run outside of the name value.

1952
KO13 JJW, 38yrs old, 2nd to last fight
1953
KO1 JJW, 39yrs old, last fight
KO11 LaStarza, lost next 3 fights before a 2yr layoff
1954
W15 Ezzard
KO8 Ezzard
1955
KO9 C#ckell, 3rd to last fight, KO'd quicker in last 2 fights
KO9 Moore, 38yrs old

He fought old guys & guys on their way out primarily. The Ezzard W's are the most impressive by a mile cuz he was prime & wasn't on his way out.

[Boxing-1013]

Incorrect, he is usually low in the top 10 or completely out of it.

The times he gets ranked in the top 5 are quite infrequent.

You need to learn how to read.

Of the 17 lists you cited, only once was he outside of the top 10. And he was 11th on that list.

His overall average rating on the 17 lists, is 6.8.

[ShoulderRoll]

Beat everyone = weak era

It's ironic that there's more credit in avenging defeat than there is in avoiding defeat.

But it's all very subjective.

Sven Ottke beat everyone too. That alone doesn't mean anything without context.

[ShoulderRoll]

You need to learn how to read.

Of the 17 lists you cited, only once was he outside of the top 10. And he was 11th on that list.

His overall average rating on the 17 lists, is 6.8.

Look again. He wasn't even included on a couple of lists.

The point being that Marciano was only considered top 5 on five lists and not on the rest.

I would have to do the math to double check your average rating. Assuming you are correct he is ranked about 7 the majority of the time.

Which is as it should be. He's closer to the bottom of a heavyweight top 10 then he is to the top.

That's the proper respect he deserves. Not more.

[Rick Taylor]

Sven Ottke beat everyone too. That alone doesn't mean anything without context.

did he though?