Is Rocky Marciano as respected as he should be?

[Boxing-1013]

He is more respected than he should be. Because of the undefeated record.

Boxers and sports journalists of his time correctly viewed him as crude and inferior to greats like Jack Dempsey and Joe Louis.

Look again. He wasn't even included on a couple of lists.

The point being that Marciano was only considered top 5 on five lists and not on the rest.

I would have to do the math to double check your average rating. Assuming you are correct he is ranked about 7 the majority of the time.

Which is as it should be. He's closer to the bottom of a heavyweight top 10 then he is to the top.

That's the proper respect he deserves. Not more.

He wasn't included on 2 of the 3 the all-time pfp lists. He was included on 16 of 17 all-time top 10 HW lists and was 11th on the 17th one.

Not trying to needle you but you said he is overrated, then said he isn't. Some people, on here and otherwise, have him as high as 3, and most say he is top 10. That's about what all those polls show.

Only guy who may have him higher than that is the Marchegiano guy and even he may only have him about 3rd.

[ShoulderRoll]

He wasn't included on 2 of the 3 the all-time pfp lists. He was included on 16 of 17 all-time top 10 HW lists and was 11th on the 17th one.

Not trying to needle you but you said he is overrated, then said he isn't. Some people, on here and otherwise, have him as high as 3, and most say he is top 10. That's about what all those polls show.

Only guy who may have him higher than that is the Marchegiano guy and even he may only have him about 3rd.

You seem to get confused easily.

Marciano is overrated today by people like the ones on here.

But boxing experts from back in the day rated him correctly. Which is at the bottom of the heavyweight top 10 or out of it.

Understand?

[Boxing-1013]

You seem to get confused easily.

Marciano is overrated today by people like the ones on here.

But boxing experts from back in the day rated him correctly. Which is at the bottom of the heavyweight top 10 or out of it.

Understand?

Let's go with some facts:

1) One poll, out of 17, had him 11th. 2) All of the others had him top 10. 3) His average in the 17 polls was 6.8. Spin that however you want.

A real man would be like 'OK, cool.' But you can keep doing whatever it is you do exactly. Very weird guy and not very intellectually honest.

You posted the info that refuted the narrative you want to be true!!! Lol and then you try and say that info proves your point, when it clearly doesn't, in black and white.

Super nerds and women dominate this site. What a shame.

[BoloShot]

I appreciate everyone's achievements. No argument from me Rocky was among the best of his day.

BUT when we get into these atg dork debates or just overrated or underrated like got brought up here we gotta be realer & take things apart a little more.

Looking at Rocky's title run idk that it's THAT quality a run outside of the name value.

1952
KO13 JJW, 38yrs old, 2nd to last fight
1953
KO1 JJW, 39yrs old, last fight
KO11 LaStarza, lost next 3 fights before a 2yr layoff
1954
W15 Ezzard
KO8 Ezzard
1955
KO9 C#ckell, 3rd to last fight, KO'd quicker in last 2 fights
KO9 Moore, 38yrs old

He fought old guys & guys on their way out primarily. The Ezzard W's are the most impressive by a mile cuz he was prime & wasn't on his way out.

To be fair many many fighters who fought Rocky retired not too long after because it seems he kinda destroyed a lot of them physically and mentally.

[Eff Pandas]

To be fair many many fighters who fought Rocky retired not too long after because it seems he kinda destroyed a lot of them physically and mentally.

I recall that thread here. It's an interesting fact, but idk that it truly means anything or even what you are suggesting. I've not seen a lot of stats on how many big punching greats retired fighters to begin with, although I recall compiling some myself in the thread discussed, to gauge much of a take on if it's impressive in some way or if Rocky was just an outlier cuz he fought more older guys, near retirement guys or etc type opponents.

[ShoulderRoll]

Let's go with some facts:

1) One poll, out of 17, had him 11th. 2) All of the others had him top 10. 3) His average in the 17 polls was 6.8. Spin that however you want.

A real man would be like 'OK, cool.' But you can keep doing whatever it is you do exactly. Very weird guy and not very intellectually honest.

You posted the info that refuted the narrative you want to be true!!! Lol and then you try and say that info proves your point, when it clearly doesn't, in black and white.

Super nerds and women dominate this site. What a shame.

Five lists had him in the top 5.

Every other list had him toward the bottom of the top 10 or out of it.

Them's the facts.

[-Kev-]

Pac is still a high quality fighter, #10 P4P in The Ring.

You are crazy if you think someone (e.g. DSG) beating Pac now wouldn't count as a quality win when looking back on that guy's career. It may not mean he could beat a prime Pac (although it would at least open the discussion), but that's not what we're talking about.

Joe Louis was the #1 contender prior to the KO loss to Marciano. https://boxrec.com/media/index.php/T..._Ratings:_1950

After that ranking, but before the fight with Marciano, as the #1 contender Joe Louis KO'd the #2 contender on that list.

Joe Louis was still #6 ranked HW after the KO loss to Marciano. https://boxrec.com/media/index.php/T..._Ratings:_1951

It's a quality win, regardless of whether Joe Louis was better earlier in his career.

What mental illness did Louis have? He was broke and needed money, like plenty of boxers past & present.

Idk who in their right mind would think DSG beating Pacquiao would be a good win. Good name? Yeah, good win? Over a past prime 40 year old Pacquiao.

Also, if we compiled a list of fighters who were ranked highly late in their career, while past prime and at an advanced age, before losing their last fight, the list would probably be fairly long.

It is widely accepted in sports, that a mid 30s athlete is usually past his best physical form. Physical forms are magnified in boxing due to the physicality of the sport and the energy you need to go through training camp and even go through 4-5 rounds. It becomes really tough and actually the Average Joe would be huffing and puffing after 1 three minute round. The physicality of boxing even has scientific research on it, showing it is actually the most physically demanding sport in the world.

Source: https://www.espn.com/espn/page2/sportSkills

Roy Jones Jr at 34 years old, barely got by Antonio Tarver. Despite this, after this win, he was going into age 35 ranked as the #1 P4P fighter, #4 ranked HW, and The Ring Champion at 175lbs. He then lost 3 times in a row, to Antonio Tarver and Glen Johnson, including two brutal KO's. RJJ's ranking does not prevent him from being past his best.

Yes, great fighters will always be ranked highly even late in their careers when they are past it. It takes a good fighter to expose that. I mentioned this in the thread earlier, that Marciano was a good fighter and good puncher and will definitely help you when fighting an old legend.

I don't know how you can see someone retire, come back literally to pay the IRS, get a string of 8 wins against fighters who were not the best of the time, and then still think it's a good win. Just look at his body, he was clearly past it and out of shape. If Wladimir Klitschko came back today due to financial issues, and fights 8 lower tier HW's and wins and then fights Wilder and gets KO'ed...does that make it a good win even though everyone knows Wlad is too old and way past his best? Literally no fan in the world would care about that win. Not even Wilder fans would see that as a legit win.

[Southpawology]

Underrated. Super small HW he was like 5’9” 185lbs with an extremely short reach for a HW

[paulf]

As time goes on, guys from generations further and further back fade from collective memory. No one alive saw Rock fight. You can only surmise so much from looking at grainy film food and reading books; the context just isn't as strong.

It's the same reason you don't ever see Antonio Moreno, Dolores del Rio, or Paola Negri at the top of great actors lists. Who? Exactly.

[BoloShot]

I recall that thread here. It's an interesting fact, but idk that it truly means anything or even what you are suggesting. I've not seen a lot of stats on how many big punching greats retired fighters to begin with, although I recall compiling some myself in the thread discussed, to gauge much of a take on if it's impressive in some way or if Rocky was just an outlier cuz he fought more older guys, near retirement guys or etc type opponents.

I just looked at the ages of the likes of ****ell, La Starza, Matthews, Bashore, Layne and such and they were all at good ages when they fought him. ****ell was the only one who he seemed to just full on retire not long after due to the brutality of that victory. He did seem to put them all on a downward slide though so it sounded like his beatings had lasting effects.
Some guys do have the ability to destroy a fighter like that. Wilder is one that'd spring to mind. Szpilka went from taking a load of good punches from wilder with ease to just getting destroyed from every punch that lands clean after his chin was shattered. Not to say his chin was ever great but he had recovery powers beforehand.