Is Rocky Marciano as respected as he should be?

[Wurider]

The guy retired undefeated but hardly gets mentioned with the greats. Was it the talk about his fights being fixed? lack of competition? Or in his prime he had no equal? What is it about Rocky?

[LoadedWraps]

Top 10 on my list, top 20 on most I've seen.

Underrated if anything. They call him a five first brawler but he was really a boxer puncher with high IQ.

[ShoulderRoll]

He is more respected than he should be. Because of the undefeated record.

Boxers and sports journalists of his time correctly viewed him as crude and inferior to greats like Jack Dempsey and Joe Louis.

[Eff Pandas]

The last thing I'd call Rocky is underrated. I think he's more overrated than underrated. I think it's hard to gauge guys who never lost & that being the case they tend to get boosted up by more fans than bumped down.

That said I think if he's underrated by some it's cuz he retired younger than most heavyweight champs & we don't got any concrete takes on how he'd have faired against the likes of Patterson or Liston who dominated after him & woulda branched him out to the next gen era more than his actual career did.

[Boxing-1013]

If he had a different complexion he would be viewed differently by almost all of those who hold an opinion about him now. That's how everyone evaluates fighters, certainly most everyone.

I think most people acknowledge he was the best in a fairly weak era. Depending on how much you identify with him, you will have some saying 'he was the best and made others in his era look weak'; others will say 'he was overrated in a bad era.' As always the truth is probably somewhere in between.

Always hard to compare eras and he was the best of his. He was a bit small imho to really compare to many ATG HWs but with his style he would have given most of them a great fight and would have probably won his fair share.

He seemed about as tough as any HW ever and that is saying something and means something. Gotta imagine he would get the Joe Frazier vs George Foreman treatment from a lot of true HWs though. But then again a lot of 'great' HWs likely would have gotten that treatment. HWs have gotten bigger and better over time.

[pasawayako]

He's very highly respected in the same level as floyd and calzaghe.

[edgarg]

He's very highly respected in the same level as floyd and calzaghe.

"Respected" by you, you mean. I also. In my opinion he's one of the worst, if not the worst heavyweight champion of the more modern era. The best fighter he faced was old Joe Louis who, by that time, was, according to his son, in and out of sanitariums, and hiding under the table, with the cloth pulled down, when anyone knocked at the door. And it's positive fact that his manager Al Weill was "connected" and got 50% of Rocky's purses, some of which he "disbursed.

It's not generally known, but The RING published a full page interview from Rocky with Nat Loubet, then a top reporter, Fleischer's son-in-law and later publisher of the.
RING himself. I HAVE THAT ISSUE. In the interview, Rocky was asked if he intended to retire. His answer was "No, I still am learning, feel great, and intend to fight a few more years".... About 2 weeks later He retired. Patterson, although a light heavy, and Liston were coming on strong with strings of KOs and dominating wins. Which was why Loubet asked that question. As we know the next Heavy champ was Floyd Patterson. Rocky was offered $1 mill to fight Patterson, and he declined-although he went into training TWICE to try to get into shape for the fight, but gave up.

There's a lot more and I'll post it -if the thread goes on for any length.

Oh yes, another thing not well known was that Rocky LOVED money, and NEVER picked up a cheque. {He was killed hitching a free ride in a plane belonging to a close friend Frankie Farrell, -the son of the big mobster Louis Fratto of Chicago and DesMoines for nearly 40 years.} He earned over 4 mill, and buried it in glass jars on his property. The whole place has been dug over for years by treasure hunters, with no luck-so far.

So, because he hated giving Weill 50%, after he retired, he went down to Mexico to fight a few "exhibitions" so that he could keep all the money. I don't blame him one bit.

I find the whole Marciano saga very interesting, and informative as to what went on in boxing those days. Cus D'Amato was the only manager who stood up against the mob ruled boxing scene. I think it was the IBC then.

[1hourRun]

"Respected" by you, you mean. I also. In my opinion he's one of the worst, if not the worst heavyweight champion of the more modern era. The best fighter he faced was old Joe Louis who, by that time, was, according to his son, in and out of sanitariums, and hiding under the table, with the cloth pulled down, when anyone knocked at the door. And it's positive fact that his manager Al Weill was "connected" and got 50% of Rocky's purses, some of which he "disbursed.

It's not generally known, but The RING published a full page interview from Rocky with Nat Loubet, then a top reporter, Fleischer's son-in-law and later publisher of the.
RING himself. I HAVE THAT ISSUE. In the interview, Rocky was asked if he intended to retire. His answer was "No, I still am learning, feel great, and intend to fight a few more years".... About 2 weeks later He retired. Patterson, although a light heavy, and Liston were coming on strong with strings of KOs and dominating wins. Which was why Loubet asked that question. As we know the next Heavy champ was Floyd Patterson. Rocky was offered $1 mill to fight Patterson, and he declined-although he went into training TWICE to try to get into shape for the fight, but gave up.

I made a complete account of Rocky's career, his opponents and THEIR opponents, which were almost all complete set-ups as follows;

His first 10 opponents had 18 wins total and 14 losses. 6 were lt. heavys. #s 1,2,6,8,9, and 12 had NO wins at all, and almost NO fights.

He fought a guy named Ross who was 10-0. Rosses opponents totalled 0 wins 1 loss and 1 draw. All 8 rounders and less, all in Quebec except Rocky.

His next 8 opponents had 103 wins and 87 losses. all palookas.

The came his 1st 10 rd fight. His next 4 opponents, all very shopworn, had 153 wins and 63 losses.

Next his "best" opponent to date. Carmine Vingo. Vingo was 16-1 (7 "KOs"), HIS opponents totalled 88 wins 104 losses. Vingo 20, was 6'4"..under 190 lbs., weedy. His "fight" before Rocky was a 0-0 beginner... Rocky was 27 a grown man -stocky and very strong.

There's a lot more and I'll post it -if the thread goes on for any length.

Oh yes, another thing not well known was that Rocky LOVED money, and NEVER picked up a cheque. {He was killed hitching a free ride in a plane belonging to a close friend Frankie Farrell, -the son of the big mobster Louis Fratto of Chicago and DesMoines for nearly 40 years.} He earned over 4 mill, and buried it in glass jars on his property. The whole place has been dug over for years by treasure hunters, with no luck-so far.

So, because he hated giving Weill 50%, after he retired, he went down to Mexico to fight a few "exhibitions" so that he could keep all the money. I don't blame him one bit.

I find the whole Marciano saga very interesting, and informative as to what went on in boxing those days. Cus D'Amato was the only manager who stood up against the mob ruled boxing scene. I think it was the IBC then.

Thank you for sharing these informative details.

[-Kev-]

Probably because of the age of his most notable opponents and where they were in their careers when he fought them.

Ezzard Charles had seen better days by age 33 and 14 years in.

Jersey Joe Walcott was 40 and had 22 years fighting pro already. Marciano was 29.

Archie Moore was 40 and had 20 years fighting pro. Marciano had just turned 32 that month.

Joe Louis was 37, 17 years in, ready for retirement and clearly looked past his best physical form. Marciano was 28.

Also, when he wasn’t fighting old past greats, he had a ton of opponents with losing records. Like more losses than wins, by a wide margin. To be fair though, these were the days when fighters stayed busy with “Bum-of-the-month” opponents to stack their record and everyone was doing it at the time.

If you do that now, fans will not allow you to get away with it. The stacking your resume with bums routines no longer works. But without that method, fighters can’t fight 4-5 times a year realistically.

If you see through the 49-0 and look at every fighter with poor records, his resume will all of a sudden look really thin and ordinary. It also helps that he was a good boxer and puncher. This led to him being able to dispatch of the old ATG’s he fought.

Picture Joe Smith Jr vs Bernard Hopkins. How much credit do you give Smith for KO’ing 51 year old Hopkins, who had never been stopped? That win will be forgotten.

Jeff Horn beating Pacquiao? That win will hold less and less weight as time goes by.

How about Calzaghe beating a shot to pieces RJJ? Almost no sensible fan cares about that win.

Marciano gets a ton more credit than he deserves for his most notable opponents.

[-Kev-]

"Respected" by you, you mean. I also. In my opinion he's one of the worst, if not the worst heavyweight champion of the more modern era. The best fighter he faced was old Joe Louis who, by that time, was, according to his son, in and out of sanitariums, and hiding under the table, with the cloth pulled down, when anyone knocked at the door. And it's positive fact that his manager Al Weill was "connected" and got 50% of Rocky's purses, some of which he "disbursed.

It's not generally known, but The RING published a full page interview from Rocky with Nat Loubet, then a top reporter, Fleischer's son-in-law and later publisher of the.
RING himself. I HAVE THAT ISSUE. In the interview, Rocky was asked if he intended to retire. His answer was "No, I still am learning, feel great, and intend to fight a few more years".... About 2 weeks later He retired. Patterson, although a light heavy, and Liston were coming on strong with strings of KOs and dominating wins. Which was why Loubet asked that question. As we know the next Heavy champ was Floyd Patterson. Rocky was offered $1 mill to fight Patterson, and he declined-although he went into training TWICE to try to get into shape for the fight, but gave up.

I made a complete account of Rocky's career, his opponents and THEIR opponents, which were almost all complete set-ups as follows;

His first 10 opponents had 18 wins total and 14 losses. 6 were lt. heavys. #s 1,2,6,8,9, and 12 had NO wins at all, and almost NO fights.

He fought a guy named Ross who was 10-0. Rosses opponents totalled 0 wins 1 loss and 1 draw. All 8 rounders and less, all in Quebec except Rocky.

His next 8 opponents had 103 wins and 87 losses. all palookas.

The came his 1st 10 rd fight. His next 4 opponents, all very shopworn, had 153 wins and 63 losses.

Next his "best" opponent to date. Carmine Vingo. Vingo was 16-1 (7 "KOs"), HIS opponents totalled 88 wins 104 losses. Vingo 20, was 6'4"..under 190 lbs., weedy. His "fight" before Rocky was a 0-0 beginner... Rocky was 27 a grown man -stocky and very strong.

There's a lot more and I'll post it -if the thread goes on for any length.

Oh yes, another thing not well known was that Rocky LOVED money, and NEVER picked up a cheque. {He was killed hitching a free ride in a plane belonging to a close friend Frankie Farrell, -the son of the big mobster Louis Fratto of Chicago and DesMoines for nearly 40 years.} He earned over 4 mill, and buried it in glass jars on his property. The whole place has been dug over for years by treasure hunters, with no luck-so far.

So, because he hated giving Weill 50%, after he retired, he went down to Mexico to fight a few "exhibitions" so that he could keep all the money. I don't blame him one bit.

I find the whole Marciano saga very interesting, and informative as to what went on in boxing those days. Cus D'Amato was the only manager who stood up against the mob ruled boxing scene. I think it was the IBC then.

That’s nuts. Although at a glance, just being a box-rec warrior, you can tell his opponents were awful. Like there is no “you can’t go by their record” excuse to apply there. His opponents were straight up awful. Literal bums. His criticism has nothing to do with his color because there are many white boxers who are praised as top ATG’s. The criticism on him is solely based on his resume and whoever says otherwise is delusional.