Saul Alvarez VS Fab 4 Kings @ Middleweight

[BendOver]

I thought GGG beat him twice...but he does have an official win over GGG on his resume, so that is a signature win officially.

Again...Hagler went 15 tight rounds vs older smaller Duran...he lost twice in his career early to guys much worse than Canelo...he got schooled by SRL at the end of his career, still was only 32 at the time of the fight I believe...a SRL who was inactive and moving up 13 pounds...he broke down Mugabi in 11 rounds...a Mugabi who came to fight Hagler.

I don't think Canelo would employ that same gameplan...anyone saying Canelo couldn't go 12 rounds with Hagler is an idiot...maybe he wouldn't, but the likelihood is that fight goes 12 rounds or even 15 (conditional on how Canelo's stamina holds up in 15 round fights.)

As I said earlier, Hearns would have a good shot to spark Canelo out early if he can line up a right hand...if he doesn't, he is likely getting stopped late, as Barkely did to him twice...Tommy's stamina was not the best and he would probably suffer a similar fate to what happened to Kovalev vs Canelo in their fight, if Canelo could make it that late.

Anyone saying Canelo has no chance vs those guys is just dumb...no offense.

those four boxers were elite. Fighting at the same time. Leonard didn't schooled Hagler and Barkley was a very good fighter with a ton of stamina, not Canelos strenght and don't forget that Hearns was a very good technical boxer that could outbox Leonard. No way canelo catch up to him if he didn't want to. And old kovalev was holding his punches or was on drugs. What fights make you think canelo is that special? Honest question. By the way the fights Hagler lost earlier in his career were robberies. He avenged both fights by way of ko. The draw against antuofermo, another robbery that was avenged too. I don't think canelo would have any chance against a prime Hagler. Hey I think fighters that lost to Hagler would had given canelos fist. mugabi, roldan, briscoe and Vito were very good fighters. Please I would like to know your answer.

[Boxing_1013]

those four boxers were elite. Fighting at the same time. Leonard didn't schooled Hagler and Barkley was a very good fighter with a ton of stamina, not Canelos strenght and don't forget that Hearns was a very good technical boxer that could outbox Leonard. No way canelo catch up to him if he didn't want to. And old kovalev was holding his punches or was on drugs. What fights make you think canelo is that special? Honest question. By the way the fights Hagler lost earlier in his career were robberies. He avenged both fights by way of ko. The draw against antuofermo, another robbery that was avenged too. I don't think canelo would have any chance against a prime Hagler. Hey I think fighters that lost to Hagler would had given canelos fist. mugabi, roldan, briscoe and Vito were very good fighters. Please I would like to know your answer.

Well there is no way to get Hagler 6+ rounds in that fight with Leonard...no one should say anything other than SRL won that fight.

Hagler also lost legit to WMSr and Watts...as mentioned, he struggled against guys who could box move and take a shot, as Hagler did not really box his way in...he bounced in and was willing to take one to give one...those fights are online, have you actually watched them?...I know Watts is online, I watched it a few months ago again.

What Canelo has done in the ring has shown me he is a great fighter...just like all 4 of those guys were great fighters...if someone wants to say those 4 were greater than Canelo, that is a fair argument to make...but Canelo is also bigger than 3 of those guys, so that helps shade things in his favor if he is not as great as them...and I think he is right there with them skill-wise as well.

Those guys were great...but not everything they did was great...they had hiccups and not so great moments along the way...same with Canelo...over-romanticizing of past fighters is just not something I indulge in.

[UNBANNED]

General principle I always work on is there's no actual objective reason to believe elites from any era wouldn't be competitve against elites from any other era - at least allowing for the changes there's been in the sport.... lotta nostalgia in boxing and it's almost like folk consider past greats as if they were superhuman.

It definitely seems that way.

The only caveat for me is HW. I dont see any HW outside of Klit bros being relevant in the 90s.

Neither Klit wouldve dominated but both would be Top 10 relevant

[LetOutTheCage]

All four beat him, people gassing up Canelo like he's some kind of killer. He was losing to Kovalev before Kovalev got tired and that was an old Kovalev who clearly wasnt fighting fit. He arguably lost to Danny Jacobs as well and thats not even mentioning the GGG fights...Dont think he beats any of those guys. I think Haggler might even stop him late.

[Lomadeaux]

Hagler vs Canelo would be bad ass

Hagler would destroy him. Canelo gasses WAY early in this fight.

[The plunger man]

I don't think I've seen anyone get as good of cards as Canelo does...Ward does too, but I mean moreso in Vegas and not in your literal backyard...I would have to watch SRL's fights with Hearns again to really score them...but he beat Hagler clean, and they didn't give him the fight vs Duran, did they? If that was Canelo, I'm sure he would have gotten the nod.

In any event, thanks for your opinions on how those fights would go...anyone saying Canelo has no shot in those fights is just kind of silly and not a very serious person, but thank you for giving your thoughts.

I don’t believe it’s silly saying canelo would lose to 3 of the best fighters in the last 50 years , canelo was schooled by Mayweather 12 nil, should have lost to Lara , could not put away a 40 year old Mosley , lost to Triple GGG. Canelo might have a lot of things in his favour now but that’s outside of the boxing ring.
Hearns would be a nightmare for him with his speed , power, size and reach 6ft1 1/2 with a 78inch reach.
Leonard was to quick ,skilled and would win a wide decision and hagler was a brilliant sharp shooter and counter punch and would cut you to ribbons with his accuracy.
You take away canelo’s obvious biased treatment and put him in there with those 3 he loses...no weight clauses , no Mexican Independence Day bull**** and no sole promotion goldenboy and canelo gets exposed period.
Duran is only one I cannot say because of his size but it’s not a given

[Boxing_1013]

I don’t believe it’s silly saying canelo would lose to 3 of the best fighters in the last 50 years , canelo was schooled by Mayweather 12 nil, should have lost to Lara , could not put away a 40 year old Mosley , lost to Triple GGG. Canelo might have a lot of things in his favour now but that’s outside of the boxing ring.
Hearns would be a nightmare for him with his speed , power, size and reach 6ft1 1/2 with a 78inch reach.
Leonard was to quick ,skilled and would win a wide decision and hagler was a brilliant sharp shooter and counter punch and would cut you to ribbons with his accuracy.
You take away canelo’s obvious biased treatment and put him in there with those 3 he loses...no weight clauses , no Mexican Independence Day bull**** and no sole promotion goldenboy and canelo gets exposed period.
Duran is only one I cannot say because of his size but it’s not a given

I'm not saying Canelo would win all of them...as I said, I think he could go 0-4, but he could go 4-0, we don't really know how this era stacks up to one 30 years ago...Hearns is the only guy of those 4 who is bigger or as big as Canelo...and I think it is very possible that Canelo does to Hearns what Barkley did to him...as I said, it is also very possible that Hearns lines Canelo up early and puts him out.

Hagler struggled with guys who could box move and take a punch...Canelo falls into that category...I think Hagler's reluctance to box his way inside, to cut off the distance, could harm him vs Canelo, and could have Canelo landing more shots on Hagler in many rounds, and outboxing him as long as his stamina held up.

Hagler's activity should give him an edge over Canelo, but again Hagler's reluctance to box his way in would help Canelo a lot...of course Canelo's stamina holding up would be a big ask vs Hagler, especially if it went 15 rounds.

Duran is an ATG at 135...at 160 I think any reasonable person would give Canelo a good chance...I do think Duran's activity would trouble Canelo though, just depends on how well Duran holds up to the power from the bigger man.

As I said, I would favor SRL to beat Canelo, even though SRL is really an ATG for what he did at 147...at 160 I would have to give Canelo a chance because he is very skilled as well, and would be the bigger man...SRL would probably outwork him most rounds but Canelo could conceivably hurt SRL...hard to say how guys from 30 years ago would stack up to today's guys, and vice versa.

I like Lara a lot...one of my favorites...I thought he gave away the last 4 rounds to Canelo in their fight and lost 7-5...he coasted while Canelo raised his level and took the last 4 rounds.

I agree Canelo lost twice, in my opinion, to GGG...but GGG is one of the best to ever do it at MW, certainly in my opinion anyway...losing 8-4 twice to an aging GGG at 160, I think it shows that Canelo could at least be competitive with other great fighters, ESPECIALLY when those other great fighters are largely fighting above their best weights.

Also styles make fights, and Canelo's style matches up about as well as could be hoped for vs Hearns...I could see a version of Canelo-Kovalev happening, where Hearns outboxes Canelo but tires late and gets stopped...Canelo is a good matchup, relatively speaking, vs Hagler as well imo...Leonard and Duran are bad matchups relatively speaking imo but he is the bigger man there so would have a decent chance vs SRL and a better chance vs Duran.

[The plunger man]

I'm not saying Canelo would win all of them...as I said, I think he could go 0-4, but he could go 4-0, we don't really know how this era stacks up to one 30 years ago...Hearns is the only guy of those 4 who is bigger or as big as Canelo...and I think it is very possible that Canelo does to Hearns what Barkley did to him...as I said, it is also very possible that Hearns lines Canelo up early and puts him out.

Hagler struggled with guys who could box move and take a punch...Canelo falls into that category...I think Hagler's reluctance to box his way inside, to cut off the distance, could harm him vs Canelo, and could have Canelo landing more shots on Hagler in many rounds, and outboxing him as long as his stamina held up.

Hagler's activity should give him an edge over Canelo, but again Hagler's reluctance to box his way in would help Canelo a lot...of course Canelo's stamina holding up would be a big ask vs Hagler, especially if it went 15 rounds.

Duran is an ATG at 135...at 160 I think any reasonable person would give Canelo a good chance...I do think Duran's activity would trouble Canelo though, just depends on how well Duran holds up to the power from the bigger man.

As I said, I would favor SRL to beat Canelo, even though SRL is really an ATG for what he did at 147...at 160 I would have to give Canelo a chance because he is very skilled as well, and would be the bigger man...SRL would probably outwork him most rounds but Canelo could conceivably hurt SRL...hard to say how guys from 30 years ago would stack up to today's guys, and vice versa.

I like Lara a lot...one of my favorites...I thought he gave away the last 4 rounds to Canelo in their fight and lost 7-5...he coasted while Canelo raised his level and took the last 4 rounds.

I agree Canelo lost twice, in my opinion, to GGG...but GGG is one of the best to ever do it at MW, certainly in my opinion anyway...losing 8-4 twice to an aging GGG at 160, I think it shows that Canelo could at least be competitive with other great fighters, ESPECIALLY when those other great fighters are largely fighting above their best weights.

Also styles make fights, and Canelo's style matches up about as well as could be hoped for vs Hearns...I could see a version of Canelo-Kovalev happening, where Hearns outboxes Canelo but tires late and gets stopped...Canelo is a good matchup, relatively speaking, vs Hagler as well imo...Leonard and Duran are bad matchups relatively speaking imo but he is the bigger man there so would have a decent chance vs SRL and a better chance vs Duran.

canelo is not a mover , he has no speed of foot and it’s only his placement of feet that sets him apart.
Hagler could fight either hand could switch when he wanted and was dead accurate and his punches could slice you open.
Let’s not forget canelo was beaten by golovkin 8-4 in the 1st fight and it was a draw the 2nd fight at worst for golovkin.
The hagler that dissected tony sibson in 1983 would have cut canelo to ribbons and his 75 inch reach was abnormally long for a fighter at 5ft 9’.
Hagler was a pin point counter puncher and was great on the back foot , he struggled catching up with boxers who had fast footwork and slick boxers
Canelo stalks slowly while cutting the ring off.
I don’t see canelo surviving beyond 10 rounds

[The Big Dunn]

Canelo beats Duran because he is bigger and Duran was old by the time he got to MW. Hagler, Leonard and Hearns beat him by UD.

[Boxing_1013]

canelo is not a mover , he has no speed of foot and it’s only his placement of feet that sets him apart.
Hagler could fight either hand could switch when he wanted and was dead accurate and his punches could slice you open.
Let’s not forget canelo was beaten by golovkin 8-4 in the 1st fight and it was a draw the 2nd fight at worst for golovkin.
The hagler that dissected tony sibson in 1983 would have cut canelo to ribbons and his 75 inch reach was abnormally long for a fighter at 5ft 9’.
Hagler was a pin point counter puncher and was great on the back foot , he struggled catching up with boxers who had fast footwork and slick boxers
Canelo stalks slowly while cutting the ring off.
I don’t see canelo surviving beyond 10 rounds

Besides Hearns, who is Hagler's best win?