Saul Alvarez VS Fab 4 Kings @ Middleweight

[The plunger man]

And when comparing Canelo to those guys, I have to assume he would have all the current benefits that he has now...or that at the very least he would not be taken advantage of in negotiations for any fight.

I just think it is possible that Canelo does similar to what Barkley did to Hearns...does similar to what Duran and t causes did to Hagler, but fighting them in a similar style to what SRL did to Hagler...similar to what Canelo (and Jacobs) tried to do vs GGG in their first fight...move around the ring, and try and touch the other guy more than he touches you...hard to do that vs GGG because he always scores with the jab, but Hagler didn't fight like that.

He is bigger than Duran so I have to give him a good chance there...and he is bigger than SRL so again I have to give him a chance.

Yes of course I’m talking about these fighters facing each other at the height of there careers and no handicaps in place.
Hagler , hearns leonard or Duran had no weight clauses when they boxed each other and we are talking about the fab 4 who invented closed circuit t.v....they were bigger than what canelo is now 100% and these are fantasy fights so we take each fighter at the very best in skill and popularity...no favouritism
I don’t see canelo beating 3 out of the 4 kings

[TonyGe]

Tommy had the reach of a heavyweight and punched like a mule. He outboxed Leonard for long stretches of their first fight. He has an outstanding jab and Canelo never figured out how to negate Golovkin's jab. On the flip side he could be hurt and Canelo has a great chin. I think Tommy would use his jab and the threat if his right to keep Canelo at bay and win a close decision. Canelo is not Marvin Hagler who also had a granite chin and is a much more active fighter.

[Chrismart]

I probably rate Duran highest out the fab 4, but I think the size may tell in that one. I see him losing to the other 3.

[GrandpaBernard]

Ok, let's break down each matchup:

Canelo: 5'8", 70.5" reach
Duran: 5'7" 66" reach

Canelo has the reach advantage but Duran was known as a prolific swarmer who was able to beat the best welterweight (Leonard) and push the best middleweight (Hagler) to the brink. Canelo isn't usually a mover either and Duran did his best post-prime work against guys who were willing to stand in front of him. With that said, Canelo would have the best chance to win this matchup out of the four.

Canelo: 5'8", 70.5" reach
Leonard: 5'10", 74" reach

I know that Canelo fought Floyd at a catchweight but I still can't ignore that result when assessing a potential Canelo-Leonard matchup. I see Leonard utilizing movement much like Erislandy Lara did but with more aggressiveness offensively. I also have to favor Leonard (the version who beat Hagler) over Canelo because Leonard had better stamina.

Canelo: 5'8", 70.5" reach
Hagler: 5'9", 75" reach

160 is Hagler's wheelhouse whereas it was a pit stop for the other three kings. Hagler had an otherworldly chin and stamina for days so I could see him forcing a hellacious pace against Canelo. Canelo would have opportunities to counter but the Hagler that weathered the storm to stop Thomas Hearns would win by stoppage.

Canelo: 5'8", 70.5" reach
Hearns: 6'1", 78" reach

Hearns was never really outboxed during his career and that's bad news for a measured counter-puncher like Canelo. Hearns would keep Canelo on the outside with his jab and that would force Canelo to put himself in line for that right hand to close the distance. I know Canelo has an incredible chin but I don't think he has the stamina to go into savage mode like Leonard and Hagler did to beat the Hitman. Also, you mentioned Iran Barkley but Barkley was 6'1" with a 74" reach (i.e. bigger than Canelo) Besides that, he took a tremendous beating before landing a hail mary to pull the upset.

Canelo is a great fighter, however the four kings are all-time greats for a reason.

strong reasoning

Saul does have suspect stamina that hasn't been fully tested yet. He also has large periods of inactivity in rounds

[Boxing_1013]

Yes of course I’m talking about these fighters facing each other at the height of there careers and no handicaps in place.
Hagler , hearns leonard or Duran had no weight clauses when they boxed each other and we are talking about the fab 4 who invented closed circuit t.v....they were bigger than what canelo is now 100% and these are fantasy fights so we take each fighter at the very best in skill and popularity...no favouritism
I don’t see canelo beating 3 out of the 4 kings

Fair enough...hard to compare eras...I really wouldn't be surprised if he went 3-1 or 1-3

[j0zef]

1) as mentioned, anyone who could box, move and take a punch gave Marvin problems or beat him...the reason why is because Marvin did not really box his way in, rather he lowered his head and was willing to take one or two to deliver one or two of his own.

We saw Duran employ that strategy very well, and Duran is a much smaller man...if Duran could last 12, I think a bigger Canelo could do it..also Canelo has shown good movement in his fights with Jacobs and GGG, much to my surprise..Canelo fits the bill, by anyone's definition, for being able to box, move and take a punch.

WMSr beat Hagler by tagging and moving around the ring as well...Watts beat Hagler by hitting and the holding/tying up Hagler when Hagler tried to walk his way in...early in Hagler's career, but still...guys who could box move and take a shot gave Hagler trouble just about every time...and guys worse than Canelo gave him trouble.

2) And let me put this in bold - Anyone who says Hagler should have won vs SRL, I don't take them seriously on boxing at all, no offense...there is no way to find 6+ rounds for Hagler in that fight...he was down 5-1 through 6 and the last 6 were competitive.

You either don't score fights or don't know how to score fights if you thought Hagler beat SRL.

That bolded part works against you. Hagler/SRL is one of the most debated decisions in boxing, and if you're not even willing to consider the possibility that Hagler won, it's you who doesn't know sht about boxing, and will not be taken seriously.


Canelo beats Duran due to insane size difference, others outbox and outwork him. He'd need a LOT of help from the judges to get the decision.

[Boxing_1013]

That bolded part works against you. Hagler/SRL is one of the most debated decisions in boxing, and if you're not even willing to consider the possibility that Hagler won, it's you who doesn't know sht about boxing, and will not be taken seriously.


Canelo beats Duran due to insane size difference, others outbox and outwork him. He'd need a LOT of help from the judges to get the decision.

Lol...not really...it actually is a great barometer for showing that some people have NO IDEA how to score a fight...Hagler didn't even get started until like round 6...SRL stole the first few rounds as Hagler hardly threw...he was clearly up 5-1.

That fight is debated because SRL got a 10-2 card, and the underdog won, giving Hagler his first primetime loss...sorry if I hurt your feelings, as you appear to have scored that one for Marvin...but if you did, you have no idea what you're watching and no idea how to score a fight...just as simple as that.

I love finding out how people scored certain no-doubt-about-it fights like that...because yeah if you scored 6+ rounds for Hagler in that fight, you just have no clue how to score a fight, but thank you for volunteering that info! I will add you to the list of guys on here to not take seriously at all on scoring fights...it is a pretty big list.

[j0zef]

Lol...not really...it actually is a great barometer for showing that some people have NO IDEA how to score a fight...Hagler didn't even get started until like round 6...SRL stole the first few rounds as Hagler hardly threw...he was clearly up 5-1.

That fight is debated because SRL got a 10-2 card, and the underdog won, giving Hagler his first primetime loss...sorry if I hurt your feelings, as you appear to have scored that one for Marvin...but if you did, you have no idea what you're watching and no idea how to score a fight...just as simple as that.

I love finding out how people scored certain no-doubt-about-it fights like that...because yeah if you scored 6+ rounds for Hagler in that fight, you just have no clue how to score a fight, but thank you for volunteering that info! I will add you to the list of guys on here to not take seriously at all on scoring fights...it is a pretty big list.

Making a lot of assumptions while completely missing the point.

That fight is consistently ranked as one of the most disputed decisions of all time (here's an article that puts it at #1). If you're unwilling to even consider the other side, you're a fanboy.

While you're adding me to some list (that I deeply care about), you should also add Al Bernstein, whose last dump had more boxing knowledge in it than you ever will.

[Boxing_1013]

Making a lot of assumptions while completely missing the point.

That fight is consistently ranked as one of the most disputed decisions of all time (here's an article that puts it at #1). If you're unwilling to even consider the other side, you're a fanboy.

While you're adding me to some list (that I deeply care about), you should also add Al Bernstein, whose last dump had more boxing knowledge in it than you ever will.

Anyone who says Hagler got 6+ rounds in that fight, has no idea how to score a fight...you may as well say every fight that goes 12 rounds, especially with no KDs, is a debatable either-way type fight..it's ******.

Again to casual observers, that fight could seem controversial because 1) the underdog won 2) there was a 10-2 card which was wide for Leonard and 3) it was a huge mega-fight.

There are not too many fights that fit that criteria...not to mention that a certain subset of boxing fans have their cards filled out beforehand...so no matter what, they were going to have Hagler winning that fight.

Again...if you find 6+ rounds for Hagler...you have no idea how to score a fight...sorry but it's true...which rounds did you give to Hagler?

[elfag]

I don’t believe it’s silly saying canelo would lose to 3 of the best fighters in the last 50 years , canelo was schooled by Mayweather 12 nil, should have lost to Lara , could not put away a 40 year old Mosley , lost to Triple GGG. Canelo might have a lot of things in his favour now but that’s outside of the boxing ring.
Hearns would be a nightmare for him with his speed , power, size and reach 6ft1 1/2 with a 78inch reach.
Leonard was to quick ,skilled and would win a wide decision and hagler was a brilliant sharp shooter and counter punch and would cut you to ribbons with his accuracy.
You take away canelo’s obvious biased treatment and put him in there with those 3 he loses...no weight clauses , no Mexican Independence Day bull**** and no sole promotion goldenboy and canelo gets exposed period.
Duran is only one I cannot say because of his size but it’s not a given

canelo wouldnt box hearns on the outside, he would back him up with a high guard and close the distance. He could close the distance and get inside of kovalev but you think he cant do that with hearns? He stops hearns who is chinny, he fights him on the inside not on the outside.