Saul Alvarez VS Fab 4 Kings @ Middleweight

[Tails]

Canelo can hold his own against anyone based on what I have seen. Holding his own does not mean he wins every fight or just dominates everyone. Just that he he jas a good shot at winning. For all these matchups I am imagining 15 rounds.

I do favor him to stop Hearns (counter punching with a great chin gives Canelo the edge for me), and edge out Duran (two slick fighters but got to give the edge to the bigger man).

As far as Hagler goes, I see it being real close like the GGG rematch except woth Hagler pressing the pace as well. I actually see a draw where Hagler picks up steam and starts winning rounds at the end to close a Canelo gap where his hand speed and slickness wins rounds

As far as Leonard I have no idea. That one is a close and controversial decision either way in my book. I just don't know how the style clash works in that one.

[The plunger man]

Besides Hearns, who is Hagler's best win?

Look I’m not a massive fan of hagler but the truth he defended his titles 13 times and beat all comers and just so happened that he lost to in my opinion the greatest fighter of the last 50 years , it was close fight but leonard won 7-4 and 1 even ...from 1980 to 1987 Hagler reigned supreme and you can’t discredit who he beat and what names they were , like any fighter you fight the best in mandatory and voluntary.
Canelo lost to golovkin , had a close fight with cotto who he never hurt one time and yet Pacquiao blitzed him , lost to Lara , could not hurt a well past his prime mosley.
I’m sorry but I don’t see canelo being able to keep hagler off him.
Canelo weight is a fake weight and he has through in my opinion jumped up in weight so quickly by the help of ped use.
He manipulates the system and has weight clauses put in contracts.

[Boxing_1013]

Look I’m not a massive fan of hagler but the truth he defended his titles 13 times and beat all comers and just so happened that he lost to in my opinion the greatest fighter of the last 50 years , it was close fight but leonard won 7-4 and 1 even ...from 1980 to 1987 Hagler reigned supreme and you can’t discredit who he beat and what names they were , like any fighter you fight the best in mandatory and voluntary.
Canelo lost to golovkin , had a close fight with cotto who he never hurt one time and yet Pacquiao blitzed him , lost to Lara , could not hurt a well past his prime mosley.
I’m sorry but I don’t see canelo being able to keep hagler off him.
Canelo weight is a fake weight and he has through in my opinion jumped up in weight so quickly by the help of ped use.
He manipulates the system and has weight clauses put in contracts.

And when comparing Canelo to those guys, I have to assume he would have all the current benefits that he has now...or that at the very least he would not be taken advantage of in negotiations for any fight.

I just think it is possible that Canelo does similar to what Barkley did to Hearns...does similar to what Duran and Mugabi did to Hagler, but fighting them in a similar style to what SRL did to Hagler...similar to what Canelo (and Jacobs) tried to do vs GGG in their first fight...move around the ring, and try and touch the other guy more than he touches you...hard to do that vs GGG because he always scores with the jab, but Hagler didn't fight like that.

He is bigger than Duran so I have to give him a good chance there...and he is bigger than SRL so again I have to give him a chance.

[Boxing_1013]

Canelo can hold his own against anyone based on what I have seen. Holding his own does not mean he wins every fight or just dominates everyone. Just that he he jas a good shot at winning. For all these matchups I am imagining 15 rounds.

I do favor him to stop Hearns (counter punching with a great chin gives Canelo the edge for me), and edge out Duran (two slick fighters but got to give the edge to the bigger man).

As far as Hagler goes, I see it being real close like the GGG rematch except woth Hagler pressing the pace as well. I actually see a draw where Hagler picks up steam and starts winning rounds at the end to close a Canelo gap where his hand speed and slickness wins rounds

As far as Leonard I have no idea. That one is a close and controversial decision either way in my book. I just don't know how the style clash works in that one.

Good post....sums up my thoughts quite well....

[emceetns]

You could play that game with any of those guys man...besides Hearns, who did Hagler beat...his next best win is either a blown up Duran in 15 rounds in a close fight, or Mugabi who never beat anyone of note in his career (though I do think Marvin took something out of him that night)...Hagler also has 2 'bad' losses and then a rather embarrassing clear loss to SRL, who moved up 2 weight classes and was inactive for 3 years for that fight.

Hearns lost to Iran Barkley twice, once at MW...if Barkley could do it, surely Canelo would have a chance.

Druan is an ATG...at lightweight!! That's 25 pounds below 160...I don't see how anyone could say Canelo is anything less than a really good bet to beat Duran at 160.

SRL is an ATG, mainly for what he did at 147, and then his fight vs Hagler...I think that was SRL's only real fight at 160 anyway...unless you want to count his loss to Camacho.

So yeah I don't see how one doesn't give Canelo a good shot in all those fights...besides Hearns, he is probably the bigger man in all of those...by a good bit vs Duran, a decent amount vs SRL, and even a little bit vs Hagler.

Ok, let's break down each matchup:

Canelo: 5'8", 70.5" reach
Duran: 5'7" 66" reach

Canelo has the reach advantage but Duran was known as a prolific swarmer who was able to beat the best welterweight (Leonard) and push the best middleweight (Hagler) to the brink. Canelo isn't usually a mover either and Duran did his best post-prime work against guys who were willing to stand in front of him. With that said, Canelo would have the best chance to win this matchup out of the four.

Canelo: 5'8", 70.5" reach
Leonard: 5'10", 74" reach

I know that Canelo fought Floyd at a catchweight but I still can't ignore that result when assessing a potential Canelo-Leonard matchup. I see Leonard utilizing movement much like Erislandy Lara did but with more aggressiveness offensively. I also have to favor Leonard (the version who beat Hagler) over Canelo because Leonard had better stamina.

Canelo: 5'8", 70.5" reach
Hagler: 5'9", 75" reach

160 is Hagler's wheelhouse whereas it was a pit stop for the other three kings. Hagler had an otherworldly chin and stamina for days so I could see him forcing a hellacious pace against Canelo. Canelo would have opportunities to counter but the Hagler that weathered the storm to stop Thomas Hearns would win by stoppage.

Canelo: 5'8", 70.5" reach
Hearns: 6'1", 78" reach

Hearns was never really outboxed during his career and that's bad news for a measured counter-puncher like Canelo. Hearns would keep Canelo on the outside with his jab and that would force Canelo to put himself in line for that right hand to close the distance. I know Canelo has an incredible chin but I don't think he has the stamina to go into savage mode like Leonard and Hagler did to beat the Hitman. Also, you mentioned Iran Barkley but Barkley was 6'1" with a 74" reach (i.e. bigger than Canelo) Besides that, he took a tremendous beating before landing a hail mary to pull the upset.

Canelo is a great fighter, however the four kings are all-time greats for a reason.

[Boxing_1013]

Ok, let's break down each matchup:

Canelo: 5'8", 70.5" reach
Duran: 5'7" 66" reach

Canelo has the reach advantage but Duran was known as a prolific swarmer who was able to beat the best welterweight (Leonard) and push the best middleweight (Hagler) to the brink. Canelo isn't usually a mover either and Duran did his best post-prime work against guys who were willing to stand in front of him. With that said, Canelo would have the best chance to win this matchup out of the four.

Canelo: 5'8", 70.5" reach
Leonard: 5'10", 74" reach

I know that Canelo fought Floyd at a catchweight but I still can't ignore that result when assessing a potential Canelo-Leonard matchup. I see Leonard utilizing movement much like Erislandy Lara did but with more aggressiveness offensively. I also have to favor Leonard (the version who beat Hagler) over Canelo because Leonard had better stamina.

Canelo: 5'8", 70.5" reach
Hagler: 5'9", 75" reach

160 is Hagler's wheelhouse whereas it was a pit stop for the other three kings. Hagler had an otherworldly chin and stamina for days so I could see him forcing a hellacious pace against Canelo. Canelo would have opportunities to counter but the Hagler that weathered the storm to stop Thomas Hearns would win by stoppage.

Canelo: 5'8", 70.5" reach
Hearns: 6'1", 78" reach

Hearns was never really outboxed during his career and that's bad news for a measured counter-puncher like Canelo. Hearns would keep Canelo on the outside with his jab and that would force Canelo to put himself in line for that right hand to close the distance. I know Canelo has an incredible chin but I don't think he has the stamina to go into savage mode like Leonard and Hagler did to beat the Hitman. Also, you mentioned Iran Barkley but Barkley was 6'1" with a 74" reach (i.e. bigger than Canelo) Besides that, he took a tremendous beating before landing a hail mary to pull the upset.

Canelo is a great fighter, however the four kings are all-time greats for a reason.

Cool, thanks for your opinions bud...I think you're a bit off there with your reasoning, as I addressed in my previous posts..but who knows, and thanks again.

[emceetns]

Cool, thanks for your opinions bud...I think you're a bit off there with your reasoning, as I addressed in my previous posts..but who knows, and thanks again.

I appreciate you sharing yours too

[emceetns]

I thought GGG beat him twice...but he does have an official win over GGG on his resume, so that is a signature win officially.

Again...Hagler went 15 tight rounds vs older smaller Duran...he lost twice in his career early to guys much worse than Canelo...he got schooled by SRL at the end of his career, still was only 32 at the time of the fight I believe...a SRL who was inactive and moving up 13 pounds...he broke down Mugabi in 11 rounds...a Mugabi who came to fight Hagler.

I don't think Canelo would employ that same gameplan...anyone saying Canelo couldn't go 12 rounds with Hagler is an idiot...maybe he wouldn't, but the likelihood is that fight goes 12 rounds or even 15 (conditional on how Canelo's stamina holds up in 15 round fights.)

As I said earlier, Hearns would have a good shot to spark Canelo out early if he can line up a right hand...if he doesn't, he is likely getting stopped late, as Barkely did to him twice...Tommy's stamina was not the best and he would probably suffer a similar fate to what happened to Kovalev vs Canelo in their fight, if Canelo could make it that late.

Anyone saying Canelo has no chance vs those guys is just dumb...no offense.

He certainly has a chance, and I know how tempting it is to automatically elevate past fighters above current ones. With that said, I do my best to be objective and focus on each fighter's attributes.

Hearns did have stamina issues, however I don't know that Canelo would fight at a fast enough pace to exploit that. Barkley did KO Hearns, but only after absorbing a hellacious beating and Barkley was bigger. If I had to bank on Canelo winning, it would be more so because of his chin than his stamina.

Honestly I would like to break down more fight footage to get a clearer picture. This is a great topic though.

[Boxing_1013]

He certainly has a chance, and I know how tempting it is to automatically elevate past fighters above current ones. With that said, I do my best to be objective and focus on each fighter's attributes.

Hearns did have stamina issues, however I don't know that Canelo would fight at a fast enough pace to exploit that. Barkley did KO Hearns, but only after absorbing a hellacious beating and Barkley was bigger. If I had to bank on Canelo winning, it would be more so because of his chin than his stamina.

Honestly I would like to break down more fight footage to get a clearer picture. This is a great topic though.

Thanks, yeah as mentioned...I think Canelo matches up well with Hearns, by luck really...Canelo is a bit of a bull and has shown he can really take a shot...if he can weather the early storm with Hearns, I could see him getting to Tommy late...I agree that Tommy's skills as a boxer were wonderful, I don't think Canelo could beat him there...but Tommy did look all too vulnerable late in fights unfortunately.

[bojangles1987]

Canelo can hold his own against anyone based on what I have seen. Holding his own does not mean he wins every fight or just dominates everyone. Just that he he jas a good shot at winning. For all these matchups I am imagining 15 rounds.

I do favor him to stop Hearns (counter punching with a great chin gives Canelo the edge for me), and edge out Duran (two slick fighters but got to give the edge to the bigger man).

As far as Hagler goes, I see it being real close like the GGG rematch except woth Hagler pressing the pace as well. I actually see a draw where Hagler picks up steam and starts winning rounds at the end to close a Canelo gap where his hand speed and slickness wins rounds

As far as Leonard I have no idea. That one is a close and controversial decision either way in my book. I just don't know how the style clash works in that one.

Hearns is quick, mobile, much taller and longer, and had terrific boxing skills at range. Alvarez isn't the kind of fighter to get past that, he's a relatively flat-footed counter puncher with low output.

Hearns's chin problems are also vastly exaggerated. He can take what Alvarez dishes out, especially considering their styles.

He's the worst matchup here, with the possible exception of Leonard.