A Deep look into Mayweather, Pacquiao, Canelo and GGG's Risk History

[Nay_Sayer]

I don't see canelo taking a lot of risks considering the judges are paid off and he's allowed to pump himself full of drugs too. It's easy to take tough fights on paper when you know judges have given you a 4 round head start. He lost twice to ggg, lara and Jacobs fights its debatable whether he won, he was losing to trout genuinely before them ****** open scorecards made trout change tactics.

Will the Bumlovkin excuse making ever end?

[Chollo Vista]

It's a good thread but I'd be wary of attributing too much intent into it. You can reasonably make some judgement of how many times the various fighters were in 'good' fights relative to their perceived ability, which is an interesting kinda statistic in itself though obviously open to interpretation.

What you can't do is presume that failing to get as many 'high' risk fights indicates deliberate aversion - or 'low risk' matchmaking rather than a simple lack of opportunity.

Simple fact is that more powerful promoters and bigger fanbases = larger purses = better opponents. For all the fanfare HBOs financial investment in Golovkin never really matched the fanfare and the hype. Bear in mind Golovkin was just shy of 33 years old before he made his first $ mil purse and his opponents were getting less and that was HBOs call, not Golovkins. Folk may mock him for being Mr 97k or whatever but therein lies precisely the reason he couldn't get the opponents especially in conjunction with HBOs yearly diminishing budgets. The reward of fighting Golovkin never matched the risk for guys who were significant enough to have other opportunities.

All 3 of the other fighter you mention had been picked up by major promotions from a relatively young age where they were able to get both excellent matchmaking and good exposure to US audiences - and ,importantly, in divisions where there were already recognised US stars.

I don't know, Koba.

I went through hell and got called all sorts of names from his fans for simply asking him to fight Daniel Jacobs... See this thread - https://www.boxingscene.com/forums/s...d.php?t=697726

And this was 3 years after he said he'd be willing to go to 168 to fight Andre Ward:

In 2013:

https://books.google.com/books?id=JzFLCgAAQBAJ&pg=PT99&lpg=PT99&dq=Golovkin+says+best+should+fight+best&source=bl&ots=fM46DXUrCi&sig=ACfU3U1-rhKNIq4L6OtM-F9kVqGf-AkL3g&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjsxJS8gMnoAhUlYjUKHVrxAj04ChDoATACegQICxAt#v=onepage&q=Golovkin%20says%20best%20should%20fight%20best&f=false

According to Thomas Hauser on Boxing: Another Year Inside the Sweet Science:

"Right now," he says, "I am a middleweight. But this is boxing. For money, I would go to super-middleweight to fight Andre Ward. For money, I would fight Mayweather at 154 pounds."

But would Ward or Mayweather fight him?
"Mayweather? No way.
Ward, We'll find out"

But it's even more frustrating when Golovkin has the opportunity to fight #3 Charlo or #2 Andrade, but instead he chooses to fight the #6 unheard of guy in which he'd be a 42-1 favorite.

G had the opportunity to fight Andrade, Chavez or Ramirez, but instead he chose Vanes.

There's just so many times throughout the history of his career when so many excuses came up to justify his lack of taking a risk. Oh and he also refused to face Lara, but made an effort to face Rosado at a catchweight while refusing to fight Canelo at a catchweight.

The only time I can really remember when someone really avoided fighting him was maybe Sergio Martinez who was on his way out when G was coming in. Other than that, it's been one excuse after the next.

Sure, he didn't want to fight Ward at 168, but why'd he say he'd fight Ward at 168 in 2013, only to ask for a catchweight in 2015... But he agreed to fight Froch and Chavez Jr at 168 without the catchweight.

There's just so many inconsistencies and excuses over the course of his 14 year career for me. Especially with boxing's rich 100+ year history, ATG's have found a way to make it happen. There have been many great fighters that have found a way to make it happen regardless on how much of a high-risk low reward they were. For example, Mayweather was high-risk, low-reward, but he also found a way to make it happen.

There's just no excuse for GGG

[Nay_Sayer]

I looked it up and he wasn't. Do you have a conflicting source?

No, just what I remember from the commentators who called the fight.

[aboutfkntime]

Well I'd say the last post contained 'reasons' rather than 'excuses', but the last 4 years or so has all been about chasing Canelo and the $$$s... You won't hear me saying any different and I've expressed my disapproval over and over. And since his DAZN deal chosing to fight Rolls and Szeremeta (if that's next) are simply an unnecessary let down since in theory he should have had both the freedom and the resources to pretty much pick who he chose.

I won't fault any boxer for trying to maximise his income and retire healthy with a fat bank account... especially one who's winding down his career, so you can call that an 'excuse' I guess, but as a boxing fan foremost it's been kinda anticlimactic to say the least.

Still it's over that same period that he's fought his toughest opponents and all guys have pointless filler fights - it just would been nice if Golovkin had taken at least semi-credible ones.

would you like my opinion on that... ?

[Nay_Sayer]

Excuse me?

Making excuses for Bumlovkin's loses, especially in the rematch, is not a good look. Even Bumlovkin's trainer thought he deserved the L. Get over it already.

[kidbazooka]

Floyd and ggg are known for taking zero risks that’s why boxing history will not appreciate them as time passes.

Pac and Canelo on the other hand will be remembered as the greater fighters when it’s all said and done.

And for the Floyd groupies that say Floyd beat them both he beat green canelo and waited till Pac got koed by Marquez.

Just because LaMotta beat Robinson doesn’t make him greater.

[aboutfkntime]

I don't know, Koba.

I went through hell and got called all sorts of names from his fans for simply asking him to fight Daniel Jacobs... See this thread - https://www.boxingscene.com/forums/s...d.php?t=697726

And this was 3 years after he said he'd be willing to go to 168 to fight Andre Ward:

In 2013:

https://books.google.com/books?id=JzFLCgAAQBAJ&pg=PT99&lpg=PT99&dq=Golovkin+says+best+should+fight+best&source=bl&ots=fM46DXUrCi&sig=ACfU3U1-rhKNIq4L6OtM-F9kVqGf-AkL3g&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjsxJS8gMnoAhUlYjUKHVrxAj04ChDoATACegQICxAt#v=onepage&q=Golovkin%20says%20best%20should%20fight%20best&f=false

According to Thomas Hauser on Boxing: Another Year Inside the Sweet Science:

"Right now," he says, "I am a middleweight. But this is boxing. For money, I would go to super-middleweight to fight Andre Ward. For money, I would fight Mayweather at 154 pounds."

But would Ward or Mayweather fight him?
"Mayweather? No way.
Ward, We'll find out"

But it's even more frustrating when Golovkin has the opportunity to fight #3 Charlo or #2 Andrade, but instead he chooses to fight the #6 unheard of guy in which he'd be a 42-1 favorite.

G had the opportunity to fight Andrade, Chavez or Ramirez, but instead he chose Vanes.

There's just so many times throughout the history of his career when so many excuses came up to justify his lack of taking a risk. Oh and he also refused to face Lara, but made an effort to face Rosado at a catchweight while refusing to fight Canelo at a catchweight.

The only time I can really remember when someone really avoided fighting him was maybe Sergio Martinez who was on his way out when G was coming in. Other than that, it's been one excuse after the next.

Sure, he didn't want to fight Ward at 168, but why'd he say he'd fight Ward at 168 in 2013, only to ask for a catchweight in 2015... But he agreed to fight Froch and Chavez Jr at 168 without the catchweight.

There's just so many inconsistencies and excuses over the course of his 14 year career for me. Especially with boxing's rich 100+ year history, ATG's have found a way to make it happen. There have been many great fighters that have found a way to make it happen regardless on how much of a high-risk low reward they were. For example, Mayweather was high-risk, low-reward, but he also found a way to make it happen.

There's just no excuse for GGG

that is exactly what happened

how these guys think that fans can just ignore all those silly, unnecessary, excuses... is bizarre... they could have simply taken those fights, like I have been saying for years

a HUGE number of people on this site did not keep it real

being able to blurt out a steady stream of silly excuses... did not prevent other fighters from doing their thing

this was the very worst excuse, used on 3x potential opponents... 2 of whom would be the best name on Golovkin's resume, EVEN NOW...

" he is... irrelevant, and not a draw "... and yet on each occasion, they immediately ran off to fight a total nobody who was much worse lol

[Chollo Vista]

No, just what I remember from the commentators who called the fight.

Can you point me to the commentary with a time stamp for that fight?

All articles that I've found on the subject point to Mayweather being the favorite.

[Citizen Koba]

I don't know, Koba.

I went through hell and got called all sorts of names from his fans for simply asking him to fight Daniel Jacobs... See this thread - https://www.boxingscene.com/forums/s...d.php?t=697726

And this was 3 years after he said he'd be willing to go to 168 to fight Andre Ward:

In 2013:

https://books.google.com/books?id=JzFLCgAAQBAJ&pg=PT99&lpg=PT99&dq=Golovkin+says+best+should+fight+best&source=bl&ots=fM46DXUrCi&sig=ACfU3U1-rhKNIq4L6OtM-F9kVqGf-AkL3g&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjsxJS8gMnoAhUlYjUKHVrxAj04ChDoATACegQICxAt#v=onepage&q=Golovkin%20says%20best%20should%20fight%20best&f=false

According to Thomas Hauser on Boxing: Another Year Inside the Sweet Science:

"Right now," he says, "I am a middleweight. But this is boxing. For money, I would go to super-middleweight to fight Andre Ward. For money, I would fight Mayweather at 154 pounds."

But would Ward or Mayweather fight him?
"Mayweather? No way.
Ward, We'll find out"

But it's even more frustrating when Golovkin has the opportunity to fight #3 Charlo or #2 Andrade, but instead he chooses to fight the #6 unheard of guy in which he'd be a 42-1 favorite.

G had the opportunity to fight Andrade, Chavez or Ramirez, but instead he chose Vanes.

There's just so many times throughout the history of his career when so many excuses came up to justify his lack of taking a risk. Oh and he also refused to face Lara, but made an effort to face Rosado at a catchweight while refusing to fight Canelo at a catchweight.

The only time I can really remember when someone really avoided fighting him was maybe Sergio Martinez who was on his way out when G was coming in. Other than that, it's been one excuse after the next.

Sure, he didn't want to fight Ward at 168, but why'd he say he'd fight Ward at 168 in 2013, only to ask for a catchweight in 2015... But he agreed to fight Froch and Chavez Jr at 168 without the catchweight.

There's just so many inconsistencies and excuses over the course of his 14 year career for me. Especially with boxing's rich 100+ year history, ATG's have found a way to make it happen. There have been many great fighters that have found a way to make it happen regardless on how much of a high-risk low reward they were. For example, Mayweather was high-risk, low-reward, but he also found a way to make it happen.

There's just no excuse for GGG

Well see my answer to Roll above... up to about 2015 or so I think it's justifiable to say that he was basically wholly dependent on the HBO pursestrings and matchmaking, but from 2015/6 onwards it became all about chasing Canelo down for the $$$s - something for which I've been consistently critical of him. Despite the fact that this period did mark the period of his best fights it also marks the period in which there were the most passed opportunities. As I said to Roll above I ain't gonna criticise a man for trying to maximise his bank balance but as a boxing fan it has been disappointing to say the least.

WRT to the Vanes fight it was pointless, but folk seem to be overlooking the fight that once it becoame non PPV it once again came down to budget... a few fighters put up their hands when they though they were goona get paid but even unknown Jaime Munguia wasn't fool enough to fight GGG for the few $100k on offer (total fight purse HBO was offering was about 1.225 mil). At the time I said he should have waited and gone for Derevyanchenko a few months later and told Canelo to kick rocks and I still hold that opinion... but, well - money I guess

WRT Ward.. probably the only fighter at the time that Golovkin would have fought as an underdog, I get it... he pissed off a lot of people and looked bad by saying he was willing to make the fight, but honestly I'm asking myself would anyone - when mandated to fight Canelo or Cotto in a unification - suddenly decide to move up a division and fight a bigger better guy for less money? I honestly can't think of any fighter who would have or has made that choice so to me calling it some kinda 'duck' or faulting him for it makes no sense unless you fault every fighter who chooses to try to make the most lucrative fight available to 'em at any given time... and that's all of 'em.

Honestly if you were managing Golovkin can you genuinely say you would have recommended he move up to fight Ward just at the moment the biggest opportunities of his career appeared to be opening up before him, even if Ward wasn't a fighter of the calibre he was?

Rolls though, Szeremata..?

And yes, Mayweather did make it happen, as did Canelo, but like I say they had the backing of the most powerful promoters and the biggest fanbases in the sport from a young age and particularly with Canelo the backing of the WBC and Vegas looking for a new superstar to replace Floyd... whilst they were making millions GGG was fighting his crooked promoter to free himself of a contract that was basically not worth the paper it was written on since Universum were going under anyway. End up costing near 3 years of his prime. The circumstances ain't the same... ain't even remotely similar in fact.

[Citizen Koba]

would you like my opinion on that... ?

I think I can guess, man.