Is Spence a top 5 p4p fighter?

[KTFOKING]

This is true, but we have two fights for evidence to the contrary.

Brook gave Spence a very competitive fight up until Brooks pre-existing injuries flared up.

and now we have the Porter fight, where yet again Spence could not distance himself away from that calibre of fighter

The Golovkin/Jacobs comparison is quite good. Jacobs fought a great fight against Golovkin, and was fairly competitive against Canelo. Clearly he isn’t so far below GGG/Canelo at middleweight.

If the Porter fight was the only blip on his resume, I would agree with you, but that isn’t the case

But what is the shame in being competitive with Brook? It was competitive until the half way mark where Spence took over and then started to beat him up. Again, fight top guys and you won't be seeing blowouts every time out. I expect Spence to beat DSG much cleaner next time out but it's okay to have some competitive fights against the best in the division.

SRL was one of the absolute greatest EVER yet his fights with Benitez, Duran, Hearns and Hagler were all competitive. Of course those guys are better than the fighters Spence is fighting, but SRL is also levels above Spence.

Only a handful of fighters truly dominate top competition and even then you have some close calls.

[jdp28tx]

Short answer is no. He is around 8-10. Spence is a good, solid fighter, but he is not a great fighter nor does he have the abilities to be a great fighter. In order to be a great fighter one has to do special things in the ring. A fighter must have one or two and possibly a combination of the following; incredible punching power, incredible hand speed, great chin, incredible defense, great footwork, high boxing iq, and a few other things. He just does some of these things competently. Spence does not do any of these things great and he does not do anything special in the ring. His abilities in the ring lack that wow factor. When you see or saw Paqman, Roy Jones, Chavez in the ring you say or said wow! He will have a solid career, but he will get beaten a few times and he will not go down as one of the greats of this era.

Current fighters who have a wow factor are Loma and Canelo. I would also add Estrada, his ring iq is amazing His counter punching abilities have that wow factor and his ability to always take over in the 2nd half of the fight is also amazing.

[The Big Dunn]

Man idk...Spence allowing Porter to impose his gameplan all fight was disappointing as someone who likes Spence...it is important to factor all that stuff in, as you mentioned.

But it is also important imo to not overrate opponents just because they do well against a guy we like...Porter is who he is, and if Spence was who I thought he was, he would have made easier work of Porter last night.

I am not a TC fan but I think he makes easier work of Porter last night than Spence did.

Crawford might do just that if he fights Porter. If so, IMO that has no bearing on what we saw Saturday night.

I saw a top 5-7 p4p boxer have to use his heart and guts to win a really tough fight. Most of us figured he'd beat Porter easily with his skill set but that didn't happen because Porter fought an unbelievably good fight and was prepared for Spence. Remember, they had sparred together and Porter's dad trained Spence so he had to know how to exploit his weaknesses.

Just don't see how this fight disproves Spence is a top p4p fighter.

[The Big Dunn]

Well this is simply where the difference lies. Your view is based on that personal assessment, whereas my view is based on mine, which clearly differs.

There’s no right or wrong

Respectfully, I think a number of posters noticed how well Porter fought last night and how much better it was than in previous fights.

The other thing to consider-Porter's dad trained Spence when he was with US Boxing and Porter/Spence had sparred and trained together. This means Porter's corner had first hand knowledge of Spence's strengths and weaknesses and how to best attack him and exploit his weaknesses.

I just think in these type of fights, instead of judging it against expectations, the actual performance should be judged.

[Boxing_1013]

'eye test'. Resume be damned.

So for you, Wanheng Menayothin is the greatest to ever lace them up.

Well if I'm going by eye test then I would have to leave that guy unranked, considering I have never watched him throw one punch before.

Crawford's resume is not that bad imo...I really like Spence but having a tough close fight with Porter, and also stopping late a broken Brook is not exactly exceptional...Crawford has some good wins on his docket, very few guys in any era have multiple great wins...and TC is in his prime now, as opposed to say a Manny.

[M Bison]

This win definitely cements him in the top 5, I might even want to say top 3 since some of you all are saying Crawford is there. The thing is when has Crawford ever dealt with adversity, when has Crawford ever fought a tough opponent? I don't recall any big fight, I do remember him having a cluster f**k of a PPV where he only sold 60 thousand lol.

In short yes, he definitely is worthy of top 5.

[Boxing_1013]

Crawford might do just that if he fights Porter. If so, IMO that has no bearing on what we saw Saturday night.

I saw a top 5-7 p4p boxer have to use his heart and guts to win a really tough fight. Most of us figured he'd beat Porter easily with his skill set but that didn't happen because Porter fought an unbelievably good fight and was prepared for Spence. Remember, they had sparred together and Porter's dad trained Spence so he had to know how to exploit his weaknesses.

Just don't see how this fight disproves Spence is a top p4p fighter.

I used to have Spence like top 3 pfp before Mikey...thought he would KO everyone at 147...after Mikey I dropped him a couple spots, and would probably drop him a couple more after this performance...definitely think he is still good, was just expecting more from him his last two outings...and of course that doesn't mean he ****** his last two fights, he did some good things as well.

And if they have sparred together and knew each other's strengths and weaknesses, I would have assumed Spence, since he imo was the pretty significantly superior fighter, would have been able to use that information to his advantage better than Shawn...I was just really surprised that Errol let Shawn inside as much as he did, and wasn't able to keep the fight on the outside with the jab..I was just expecting a much more comfortable performance from Errol.

I like Porter, he seems like a good guy and I respect his fighting style even if he isn't one of my favorite guys to root for...but he had 3 close fights with Ugas Brook and Thurman...some may say he lost all 3 or at least 2 of 3 of those...I was just expecting Spence to make it look quite a bit easier than those 3 guys did, since I viewed Spence as quite a bit better than those 3 guys.

All we can do is call it like we see it...I agree that Shawn was hungry and motivated to prove something in this fight...but imo I didn't see a much different performance than what he showed vs Brook or Thurman...he obviously tried something different when he fought Ugas.

I think Shawn just showed that Errol's jab is not as good as I thought it was, and his feet and hands are a bit slow for a WW, which I always felt was his only real problem at 147...again I just expected Spence to keep this on the outside more and put on more of a boxing clinic vs Porter, rather than allow it to become a dog fight.

I was impressed with Spence's chin, toughness, heart, stamina and body work however and he is clearly still a top fighter imo...if he fights Danny next and stops him I will be impressed...if he goes 12 rounds with Danny in a similar fight to this one then imo Spence is falling off from where he was a couple years ago...maybe it is the weight or maybe he is just aging a bit but for whatever reason the guy I saw a few years ago is not the same guy vs Porter and even Mikey...and imo it is not the step up in competition that is showing for him.

The jab sets up everything for most fighters and I always liked Spence's jab...and it was non-existent vs Porter...just kind of problematic imo.

[The Big Dunn]

I used to have Spence like top 3 pfp before Mikey...thought he would KO everyone at 147...after Mikey I dropped him a couple spots, and would probably drop him a couple more after this performance...definitely think he is still good, was just expecting more from him his last two outings...and of course that doesn't mean he ****** his last two fights, he did some good things as well.

And if they have sparred together and knew each other's strengths and weaknesses, I would have assumed Spence, since he imo was the pretty significantly superior fighter, would have been able to use that information to his advantage better than Shawn...I was just really surprised that Errol let Shawn inside as much as he did, and wasn't able to keep the fight on the outside with the jab..I was just expecting a much more comfortable performance from Errol.

I like Porter, he seems like a good guy and I respect his fighting style even if he isn't one of my favorite guys to root for...but he had 3 close fights with Ugas Brook and Thurman...some may say he lost all 3 or at least 2 of 3 of those...I was just expecting Spence to make it look quite a bit easier than those 3 guys did, since I viewed Spence as quite a bit better than those 3 guys.

All we can do is call it like we see it...I agree that Shawn was hungry and motivated to prove something in this fight...but imo I didn't see a much different performance than what he showed vs Brook or Thurman...he obviously tried something different when he fought Ugas.

I think Shawn just showed that Errol's jab is not as good as I thought it was, and his feet and hands are a bit slow for a WW, which I always felt was his only real problem at 147...again I just expected Spence to keep this on the outside more and put on more of a boxing clinic vs Porter, rather than allow it to become a dog fight.

I was impressed with Spence's chin, toughness, heart, stamina and body work however and he is clearly still a top fighter imo...if he fights Danny next and stops him I will be impressed...if he goes 12 rounds with Danny in a similar fight to this one then imo Spence is falling off from where he was a couple years ago...maybe it is the weight or maybe he is just aging a bit but for whatever reason the guy I saw a few years ago is not the same guy vs Porter and even Mikey...and imo it is not the step up in competition that is showing for him.

The jab sets up everything for most fighters and I always liked Spence's jab...and it was non-existent vs Porter...just kind of problematic imo.

Your 1st paragraph-You dropped Spence in your p4p rankings because he won 12-0 instead over Mikey instead of a KO win. Now you want to drop him more spots because he came back to win a tougher than expected fight by winning the last 3 rds-including getting a KD. That is mind numbing to me.

Errol didn't let him inside-Shawn worked to get in. I mean he was the WBC WW champ and a top 4 ww overall. He isn't a bum. That he outperformed expectations doesn't mean Spence underperformed. Instead of a boxing clinic he put on a display of heart and guts.

Maybe, instead of focusing on how he didn't meet pre fight expectations, the focus should be on what he did show. He showed a solid jab, he showed good power and punching. He also showed weak defense which is a fair criticism. He wasn't perfect by any means and definitely can improve in some areas.

The issue I have with your post-Spence is fighting better quality WW's now. Why would we expect him to perform better against top tier ww's than we would lower tier? What boxer does that? Every so often you get the rare Tyson/Spinks or Hearns/Duran destruction when top level guys fight. Otherwise you get tough fights that tend to end in UD's.

I think a boxer deserves more credit for a tough 12 rd SD win than a 2 rd destruction of some weak ass opponent. Even in the case of Mikey, no he didn't KO him but beat him 12-0 on all cards, including 1 10-8 round. Maybe your stanfard is just a tad bit too high. LOL!!

[Boxing_1013]

Your 1st paragraph-You dropped Spence in your p4p rankings because he won 12-0 instead over Mikey instead of a KO win. Now you want to drop him more spots because he came back to win a tougher than expected fight by winning the last 3 rds-including getting a KD. That is mind numbing to me.

Errol didn't let him inside-Shawn worked to get in. I mean he was the WBC WW champ and a top 4 ww overall. He isn't a bum. That he outperformed expectations doesn't mean Spence underperformed. Instead of a boxing clinic he put on a display of heart and guts.

Maybe, instead of focusing on how he didn't meet pre fight expectations, the focus should be on what he did show. He showed a solid jab, he showed good power and punching. He also showed weak defense which is a fair criticism. He wasn't perfect by any means and definitely can improve in some areas.

The issue I have with your post-Spence is fighting better quality WW's now. Why would we expect him to perform better against top tier ww's than we would lower tier? What boxer does that? Every so often you get the rare Tyson/Spinks or Hearns/Duran destruction when top level guys fight. Otherwise you get tough fights that tend to end in UD's.

I think a boxer deserves more credit for a tough 12 rd SD win than a 2 rd destruction of some weak ass opponent. Even in the case of Mikey, no he didn't KO him but beat him 12-0 on all cards, including 1 10-8 round. Maybe your stanfard is just a tad bit too high. LOL!!

Dude as I said I had Spence higher than most before the Mikey fight...thus I would have expected him to stop someone like Mikey who I don't rate really at all....Mikey did not belong in the same ring as Spence imo so going 12 rounds with him did not impress me.

I still had Spence very high before Porter, and expected him to dominate him/beat him easier than Brook Ugas and Thurman did against Porter...and let's be honest, Spence didn't.

As I said, I still have Spence top 7 or so pfp...he is no scrub...just has not looked as good as I thought he was his last 2 fights...and I don't rate Mikey really at all, especially at 147...and Porter yeah he is a solid fighter, but if you are elite like I feel Spence is, you should be more impressive against him...again he did not do much better vs Porter than Thurman Ugas and Brook did.

Spence's jab was non-existent vs Porter, not sure what you were seeing there my friend....also I had Porter down 4-2...then I had Porter winning 7 9 10 and 12 on my card...though admittedly a few of those rounds were close, but I thought Porter edged a few outright...so I don't really agree that Spence came back, I had him ahead, for the record...the right man who though imo and I could see anywhere from 8-4 for Spence to 6-6.

Again going 12 with Mikey was not impressive to me...if GGG went 12 with Brook in a similar fight, I would be similarly unimpressed...going 12 and having a tough fight with Porter was not that impressive to me...if GGG for example has a similar type tough close fight with Dervy this weekend, I will have a similar view of him/his pfp place right now.

So yeah having Spence still top 7 or so is not really slighting him at all...we may have him around the same spot anyway.

Also to put another way...I feel like many defending Spence here were some who were killing GGG for going 12 rounds with Danny Jacobs...and imo the difference in those 2 fights is that no one thought Danny's chin would hold up for 12 rounds, but if it did, I am not surprised that GGG won an 8-4 decision with a KD on my card...I thought Danny fought well at times but was more or less there to survive 12 rounds....I thought GGG was a level or two above Danny boxing wise, and that is what I saw in there when they fought.

I gave Porter 0 real shot to beat Spence...just thought Spence was levels above him, and he wasn't when they fought...I've had Spence above GGG pfp, and I don't think Porter pfp is a tougher fight than DJ, and I feel this fight was a tougher fight for Spence than GGG's with Danny.

I at least try to be consistent with my analysis...as mentioned if GGG went 12 with Brook some of the same people praising Spence for his work vs Mikey would kill GGG for it...and some still slight GGG for that performance actually, and praise Spence for his.

We all just have to call it like we see it...but imo if one has a vastly different opinion of GGG-Jacobs, Spence-Porter, and Loma-Linares (which I had very close before the stoppage)...then I just think they are a bit biased one way or the other.

Those were 3 good fights, the better man won all 3...but not really as impressively as expected, and that is important when analyzing who the best fighters are pfp.

[Combat Talk Radio]

Your 1st paragraph-You dropped Spence in your p4p rankings because he won 12-0 instead over Mikey instead of a KO win. Now you want to drop him more spots because he came back to win a tougher than expected fight by winning the last 3 rds-including getting a KD. That is mind numbing to me.

Errol didn't let him inside-Shawn worked to get in. I mean he was the WBC WW champ and a top 4 ww overall. He isn't a bum. That he outperformed expectations doesn't mean Spence underperformed. Instead of a boxing clinic he put on a display of heart and guts.

Maybe, instead of focusing on how he didn't meet pre fight expectations, the focus should be on what he did show. He showed a solid jab, he showed good power and punching. He also showed weak defense which is a fair criticism. He wasn't perfect by any means and definitely can improve in some areas.

The issue I have with your post-Spence is fighting better quality WW's now. Why would we expect him to perform better against top tier ww's than we would lower tier? What boxer does that? Every so often you get the rare Tyson/Spinks or Hearns/Duran destruction when top level guys fight. Otherwise you get tough fights that tend to end in UD's.

I think a boxer deserves more credit for a tough 12 rd SD win than a 2 rd destruction of some weak ass opponent. Even in the case of Mikey, no he didn't KO him but beat him 12-0 on all cards, including 1 10-8 round. Maybe your stanfard is just a tad bit too high. LOL!!

Same here. Spence being discredited for some ambiguous expectation instead of the outcome doesn't make any damn sense.

Meanwhile Crawford gets major credit for low blowing Amir Khan because it's a knockout. Don't matter that Amir Khan isn't A class, doesn't matter that it wasn't a legit KO, doesn't matter that Khan was significantly damaged. Doesn't matter that Danny MF'n Garcia sparked a healthier Khan in LESS rounds and in dominant, clear fashion.

Crawford is getting participation credit while Spence isn't getting any, all because of the 'eye test'. It's BS