Is Spence a top 5 p4p fighter?

[Boxing_1013]

Yo dude this is crazy. Dominating them if they don’t look good isn’t as good as beating them at their best.

Porter fought as well as he has ever fought last night. If Spence want a top 5-7 p4p fighter he doesn’t win.

The mark of a great fighter is winning fights that become tougher than expected that require you to dig deep and use your whole skill set.

Spence very well have been the only ww I. The world able to beat the Porter that was in the ring last night.

I think it better to judge the performance not judge the performance against expectations.

Man idk...Spence allowing Porter to impose his gameplan all fight was disappointing as someone who likes Spence...it is important to factor all that stuff in, as you mentioned.

But it is also important imo to not overrate opponents just because they do well against a guy we like...Porter is who he is, and if Spence was who I thought he was, he would have made easier work of Porter last night.

I am not a TC fan but I think he makes easier work of Porter last night than Spence did.

[KTFOKING]

I agree about Loma/Linares...I had that fight very close before the stoppage.

GGG was pretty clearly better than Nelo in both fights imo.

I think the Danny fight was interesting because no one thought Danny's chin would hold up for 12 rounds...but if we knew that it would, I would have expected an 8-4 fight for GGG with a KD (that's how I had it...I had it over after 9 rounds and never felt it was really that close...GGG seemed in control basically the whole fight imo)...so Danny's chin holding up was surprising, but the action between them when they were in the ring was about what I expected.

I gave Danny a chance for scoring a KO going in, like he did with Quillin...so I always gave Danny a chance in that regard...I never gave Shawn any real chance to take Spence, and I never thought Spence would allow Porter to enforce his style on Spence and not vice-versa.

So yeah I personally saw Spence in more of a dog fight with Porter than GGG was with Danny...and I think a lot of us are just surprised that Spence allowed Porter to impose his style on him and didn't make it look a little more clinical/easier.

Spence was always near the top of my pfp list...but after Mikey I dropped him a couple spots...and dropped him a couple more spots after this one.

I think he was the better man vs Porter and deserved to win...I slid the last round to Shawn and had it 6-6..but I shaded a couple close rounds to him that some could have split...even though I gave Shawn 6 rounds, it is hard for me to see him getting 7...a couple rounds I shaded to him were 'close but clear' rounds and I just don't know where the other rounds for him could come from...and Spence could have won 1 or 2 of Porter's imo.

Spence imo just struggled more with Porter than I saw GGG with Danny...but I think that is a fair enough comparison...and just how it is fair to judge GGG on whether he lived up to expectations vs DJ, it is fair imo to judge whether Spence did vs Porter.

Good post.

I personally had the GGG/Jacobs fight closer than Spence/Porter. I mean Porter certainly had his moments, and fought well. But this thing where you are truly only elite if you dominate all opponents is nonsense. Fight enough good opponents and you will get some tight fights...And that is perfectly fine. LIS in another post, only Inoue/Crawford from the top P4P fighters have not had a real competitive tough fight. And people in one light kill Crawford because of his resume' but then kill others who are in tight fights.

I think the biggest issue for Spence is he could never get his jab going. He landed some nice counter hooks and his body shots were vicious all fight, but Porter's herky jerky style and movement took Spence's jab away. I would love to see a rematch and see the types of adjustments Spence would make...If there is really anything he could do or if not we get another dog fight...And sometimes it happens that way.

[Boxing_1013]

What does this mean? Because it was close? Did GGG separate himself from Jacobs? Did Usyk separate himself from Bredis? Did Canelo separate himself from Lara or Trout or GGG?

Any competitive fight and a fighter can't be top 5 P4P? I mean if you don't think he is top 5 P4P, that is perfectly fine. But what is your logic here? Any close competitive fight and that fighter is automatically disqualified from being in the top 5 P4P list?

You have to judge guys relative to expectations too...and no one really gave Shawn a chance here...we all expected Errol to beat Shawn much more impressively than Thurman or Brook did, and let's be honest, he didn't.

Shawn imposed his style on Spence and turned it into a dog fight...I was very surprised that Spence couldn't keep Porter at bay.

Danny's problem vs GGG was going in no one thought his chin would hold up...And I still saw Spence-Porter as a tougher fight for Spence than DJ-GGG was for GGG...GGG winning 8-4 with a KD was reasonable imo (which is how I had it) if we knew Danny's chin would hold up.

I gave Shawn 0 chance really to worry Spence, as I was high on Spence...and for Spence to not be able to make this fight a little easier on himself takes away a little shine from him.

I was impressed with Porter's performance...and always like real pros like him who stay in shape and have good stamina...but I think we should be cautious on overrating him too...he is the same guy who had very tight fights with Ugas, Brook and Thurman...and many feel he lost 2 or all of those.

For Spence to have a similar fight with him as those 3 guys, says that he is about on Ugas' level now, which is way lower than I thought...obviously I think he is still higher than Ugas, but not a very impressive performance from Errol imo.

[Boxing_1013]

Honestly, it's really freaking difficult to rank fighters across all weight classes (P4P) when the best fighters don't even face the best in their own weight class!

(Who's the best welterweight today? Who knows? That's because Crawford and Spence won't fight each other.)

I don't see any reason NOT to rank Spence top 5 P4P. But I could say the same for more than five fighters. Gotta see them like, actually go against each other.

Great post...hard to say who the best is at 147 154 160 168 175 right now..even HW...crazy sh.it really

[KTFOKING]

Man idk...Spence allowing Porter to impose his gameplan all fight was disappointing as someone who likes Spence...it is important to factor all that stuff in, as you mentioned.

But it is also important imo to not overrate opponents just because they do well against a guy we like...Porter is who he is, and if Spence was who I thought he was, he would have made easier work of Porter last night.

I am not a TC fan but I think he makes easier work of Porter last night than Spence did.

Crawford very well may make easier work out of Porter. He has better footwork and is slicker than Spence. But at the same time, Crawford could be in a struggle with Porter's physicality and style bugging him as it does everyone else. Brook actually had the best style for Porter and it has proven to be the case thus far. He is the prototypical one-two fighter who is HUGE for the weight and able to handle Porter on the inside. And even then Porter was able to get his shots off on the inside and made it competitive to an extent...Thought Brook clearly won though. Crawford is a hell of a talent/fighter, but we need to see him in these types of fights. Hasn't been in with a live dog since Postol.

[KTFOKING]

You have to judge guys relative to expectations too...and no one really gave Shawn a chance here...we all expected Errol to beat Shawn much more impressively than Thurman or Brook did, and let's be honest, he didn't.

Shawn imposed his style on Spence and turned it into a dog fight...I was very surprised that Spence couldn't keep Porter at bay.

Danny's problem vs GGG was going in no one thought his chin would hold up...And I still saw Spence-Porter as a tougher fight for Spence than DJ-GGG was for GGG...GGG winning 8-4 with a KD was reasonable imo (which is how I had it) if we knew Danny's chin would hold up.

I gave Shawn 0 chance really to worry Spence, as I was high on Spence...and for Spence to not be able to make this fight a little easier on himself takes away a little shine from him.

I was impressed with Porter's performance...and always like real pros like him who stay in shape and have good stamina...but I think we should be cautious on overrating him too...he is the same guy who had very tight fights with Ugas, Brook and Thurman...and many feel he lost 2 or all of those.

For Spence to have a similar fight with him as those 3 guys, says that he is about on Ugas' level now, which is way lower than I thought...obviously I think he is still higher than Ugas, but not a very impressive performance from Errol imo.

Styles make fights. Just because Spence wasn't as impressive vs Porter as say fighter X, doesn't mean Spence isn't better than that fighter. I said I expected a 9-3 or 10-2 type of Spence win, so you can count me in with those that thought this would be easier work. However, Porter fought great and surprised me that he was able to take Spence's jab away. Spence also closed very strong which very few Porter opponents do since they are usually worn out by the physicality of the fight.

Floyd wasn't very impressive against Maidana in either fights. Yet in between that he schooled Canelo and handled Pacquiao with fairly ease. Maidana is BY FAR the inferior fighter of the three but still gave Floyd the tougher fights. Heck, Canelo would ICE Maidana within four rounds and Pacquiao would light him up. Yet when those two fought Floyd, they got comprehensively beat.

[Boxing_1013]

Good post.

I personally had the GGG/Jacobs fight closer than Spence/Porter. I mean Porter certainly had his moments, and fought well. But this thing where you are truly only elite if you dominate all opponents is nonsense. Fight enough good opponents and you will get some tight fights...And that is perfectly fine. LIS in another post, only Inoue/Crawford from the top P4P fighters have not had a real competitive tough fight. And people in one light kill Crawford because of his resume' but then kill others who are in tight fights.

I think the biggest issue for Spence is he could never get his jab going. He landed some nice counter hooks and his body shots were vicious all fight, but Porter's herky jerky style and movement took Spence's jab away. I would love to see a rematch and see the types of adjustments Spence would make...If there is really anything he could do or if not we get another dog fight...And sometimes it happens that way.

Crawford very well may make easier work out of Porter. He has better footwork and is slicker than Spence. But at the same time, Crawford could be in a struggle with Porter's physicality and style bugging him as it does everyone else. Brook actually had the best style for Porter and it has proven to be the case thus far. He is the prototypical one-two fighter who is HUGE for the weight and able to handle Porter on the inside. And even then Porter was able to get his shots off on the inside and made it competitive to an extent...Thought Brook clearly won though. Crawford is a hell of a talent/fighter, but we need to see him in these types of fights. Hasn't been in with a live dog since Postol.

I hear ya man...good posts...think I responded to you on another post but was basically saying the same things as the one you addressed...didn't realize I responded to the same poster.

Yeah all we can do is call it like we see it and analyze from there...fights like that with Spence-Porter are honestly a snapshot of why I have always rated GGG so high...a lot of these guys that fight the top guys get called 'bums' etc..but if you end up fighting 10 or so quality fighters like Porter, even if you are great like I think Spence still can be...

Well even the great ones will usually have a few close fights and maybe a loss in those types of fights...styles make fights, we all know that, and a quality fighter will maybe have a great gameplan and want it more than the big dog sometimes as well.

Yeah I was just surprised that Spence couldn't get his jab going...his only flaw for me at WW was that for a WW he can be a bit slow/lumbering with his hands and feet imo...but I didn't think he would have no jab vs Porter...was surprised/disappointed in that regard...also was expecting his power to be a bit stronger, to offset the somewhat slow hands/feet he has imo.

That being said, his body work vs Porter was exceptional...his stamina chin and heart were all there and passed the (very important) test.

So yeah we all just have to call it like we see it with this stuff...I personally saw GGG controlling that fight with DJ and I think DJ was honestly really intent on going 12 rounds with GGG...just like DJ's fight with Canelo, he was in it and had some good moments, he just seemed content imo to be competitive and not try and really take it.

Porter, I just couldn't believe he imposed his gameplan on Spence...I just saw him really in there and competing with Spence and giving him a tough fight...it is all relative though...I just thought Spence boxing wise was levels above him...didn't think Shawn could do much to trouble/hurt Errol while Danny is a big puncher so would always be able to keep his man cautious coming in.

As I said before I had Spence like top 3 pfp before Mikey...dropped him to like 5 after that...and he would still be top 10 for me now...he obviously did a lot of good stuff Saturday night as well.

I just would have liked to have seen him keep Shawn on the outside and make it look a little easier...I would be really interested in seeing Crawford in with Porter or anyone at 147...obviously him vs Spence would be ideal...but hopefully he gets in there at 147 too so we can better judge what is going on there...should be some good fights.

[Boxing_1013]

Styles make fights. Just because Spence wasn't as impressive vs Porter as say fighter X, doesn't mean Spence isn't better than that fighter. I said I expected a 9-3 or 10-2 type of Spence win, so you can count me in with those that thought this would be easier work. However, Porter fought great and surprised me that he was able to take Spence's jab away. Spence also closed very strong which very few Porter opponents do since they are usually worn out by the physicality of the fight.

Floyd wasn't very impressive against Maidana in either fights. Yet in between that he schooled Canelo and handled Pacquiao with fairly ease. Maidana is BY FAR the inferior fighter of the three but still gave Floyd the tougher fights. Heck, Canelo would ICE Maidana within four rounds and Pacquiao would light him up. Yet when those two fought Floyd, they got comprehensively beat.

Yeah I mean the Canelo one for me for Floyd is a bit hard to rate since Nelo was young and at a lower weight...but yeah I see your points there and I agree.

As I said I don't think Spence sucks at all...and part of my 'disappointment' here is that I have basically had him rated higher than everyone else pfp wise...his last 2 fights for me I just wanted more from him.

Whoever he fights next will be another good benchmark for him...hopefully he can really impress if he faces Garcia..if he dominates him that would be a good sign for him for sure

[Combat Talk Radio]

Right...I'm not even a Crawford 'fan'...I just recognize that he appears to be the real deal

'eye test'. Resume be damned.

So for you, Wanheng Menayothin is the greatest to ever lace them up.

[techliam]

Styles make fights. Just because Spence wasn't as impressive vs Porter as say fighter X, doesn't mean Spence isn't better than that fighter. I said I expected a 9-3 or 10-2 type of Spence win, so you can count me in with those that thought this would be easier work. However, Porter fought great and surprised me that he was able to take Spence's jab away. Spence also closed very strong which very few Porter opponents do since they are usually worn out by the physicality of the fight.

Floyd wasn't very impressive against Maidana in either fights. Yet in between that he schooled Canelo and handled Pacquiao with fairly ease. Maidana is BY FAR the inferior fighter of the three but still gave Floyd the tougher fights. Heck, Canelo would ICE Maidana within four rounds and Pacquiao would light him up. Yet when those two fought Floyd, they got comprehensively beat.

This is true, but we have two fights for evidence to the contrary.

Brook gave Spence a very competitive fight up until Brooks pre-existing injuries flared up.

and now we have the Porter fight, where yet again Spence could not distance himself away from that calibre of fighter

The Golovkin/Jacobs comparison is quite good. Jacobs fought a great fight against Golovkin, and was fairly competitive against Canelo. Clearly he isn’t so far below GGG/Canelo at middleweight.

If the Porter fight was the only blip on his resume, I would agree with you, but that isn’t the case