Comments Thread For: Hearn: GGG Won't Wait For Canelo; Lots Of Opponents For Him

[TonyGe]

Let's be clear....he signed to fight Vanes while Dervy was available and asking to fight him on May 5. GGG made ZERO attempts to make that fight.

Looking great vs weak competition and good versus Jacobs and Canelo doesn't necessarily create the greatness many including you want to heap on GGG. At this stage, he is just one of the fighters who "arguably beat Canelo". There is no defining win. No real moment. I applaud him for securing generational wealth, but it was at the expense of a generational legacy. Tomorrow's generation won't have a fight or fight to look at that says this is where this guy stamped himself as an ATG.

Someone posted back when Canelo failed his drug test and Golovkin was looking for an opponent that Derevyanchko had a rep as being difficult to negotiate with. At the time it seemed to be unsubstantuated. After the failed Canelo negotiations I think it's very possible. The fight was coming up soon and Golovkin promised he would keep the date.

[Boxing_1013]

Someone posted back when Canelo failed his drug test and Golovkin was looking for an opponent that Derevyanchko had a rep as being difficult to negotiate with. At the time it seemed to be unsubstantuated. After the failed Canelo negotiations I think it's very possible. The fight was coming up soon and Golovkin promised he would keep the date.

Yep good points Tony...I think there are valid things to get on GGG about...but a lot of the most common criticisms thrown at him are not really accurate imo

[Ake-Dawg]

Eh idk...matter of opinion I suppose...I think he has more than proved his worth as a great and ATG...I would also say that again I don't think SD would have been ready at all by May 5th, but I think you are correct that GGG and his team weren't necessarily looking in his direction either at that point...to be fair though taking on a 'disrupter' fight on short notice with his legacy and money fight/rematch waiting with Nelo, just really dumb really...wouldn't expect anyone to make dumb decisions like that...and again that fight would have not happened on May 5...just would have been a mess to go that route really.

I think also most fighters are focused on securing money over legacy...we saw it plenty with Floyd as he moved up in weight and went into his Money May persona...just the way it is, and who can say they are wrong to do it that way...a lot of people who don't like a guy will give no credit regardless, so no sense imo in trying to please them...I think you have to balance the money with the legacy and I think GGG and quite a few others in this era have done that very well.

Just think a kid from BFE fighting away from home his whole career and scoring KOs and dominant Ws against very good opposition is impressive...especially factoring in that ATG amateur career...not many can really say that..he is not without flaws but undoubtedly great imo

What exactly is an ATG amateur record. Seems like those records don't get much pub unless we are talking Golovkin or Loma. What I see is a guy who had potential to be an ATG but didn't or hasn't done what the ATGs have done. When you have no clear wins versus a contemporary, you are not an ATG. Canelo fights aside, there just isn't enough there in the form of quality ATG status making wins. He will go down as the best middleweight of his short time...but you have to beat people on the level he has beaten for 10 years like Wlad to get the ATG nod.

[Ake-Dawg]

Someone posted back when Canelo failed his drug test and Golovkin was looking for an opponent that Derevyanchko had a rep as being difficult to negotiate with. At the time it seemed to be unsubstantuated. After the failed Canelo negotiations I think it's very possible. The fight was coming up soon and Golovkin promised he would keep the date.

They didn't even try. The silence on the line when Andrade BJS and Dervy all raised their hands says they were only interested in soft touches to get a fight in before Canelo in September. Smart decision but we can't sit back and use rumor or a negotiation that was close by all reports when the IBF stripped Alvarez as a reason for Team GGG to not even offer Dervy the moment Alvarez was suspended.

[Boxing_1013]

What exactly is an ATG amateur record. Seems like those records don't get much pub unless we are talking Golovkin or Loma. What I see is a guy who had potential to be an ATG but didn't or hasn't done what the ATGs have done. When you have no clear wins versus a contemporary, you are not an ATG. Canelo fights aside, there just isn't enough there in the form of quality ATG status making wins. He will go down as the best middleweight of his short time...but you have to beat people on the level he has beaten for 10 years like Wlad to get the ATG nod.

Man almost every pro fighter that I am a fan of, was coincidentally a great amateur...just makes sense in a way that a lot of the great pros were some of the great ams...some ams can't compete at the pro level because it is a slightly different game, but those who can incorporate the stamina/chin/power into their elite boxing skills, end up being great.

GGG's am career even stands out among most others due to the reported 345-5 record...that's crazy!...especially for a guy from a non-elite boxing country (that can pull some strings in some fights)...and also on top of the record he piled up a lot of medals, including a silver in the Olympics.

And for the record, GGG said he got talked to by 'the powers that be' before that bout and they told him that one guy from Kazhakstan would be winning a gold medal in boxing, and it wasn't going to be him...take that with a grain a salt though if you want, as I do...but we can probably both agree that robberies (Floyd and RJJ come to mind) do happen quite often at the Olympics in boxing...very political.

Great ams who I really liked/respected their boxing ability - Floyd, Rigo, Lara, Loma, GGG, Usyk, Spence, etc...even going back a bit you have SRL Hearns etc...only notable recent exception to that list for me would be Ward.

Again some of GGG's dominance as an Am is due to him fighting as an Am until he was 23...but it's not like he was doing it until he was 30.

I actually think Wlad is a good comparison for him...never really thought of that one...GGG's 'reign' wasn't quite as long as Wlad's...in years or number of wins...but I agree it was a similar dominance level and level of opposition...I think GGG was a little more dominant since almost all of his wins were by KO but it was probably pretty similar...GGG also has no bad losses on his resume as Wlad does.

And honestly I've studied the resumes of quite a few ATGs...most of them have only 2 or 3 fights against what others would consider ATGs...and usually in those fights they are about .500...you could say the official record shows GGG to be 0-1-1 in his 2 fights...but I think he won both, and again most other fighters don't usually have many more than 2 or 3 fights vs other ATGs.

I do think it is fair to critique GGG and say that against a guy like Canelo who was coming up in weight, that GGG should have hurt Canelo more and won even more decisively than he did..but I just honestly can't really see the case that he didn't win both fights..just my opinion I suppose.

Take Hagler for example btw...he basically tied Duran (imo, accounting for the fact that it was close to a draw, and Duran was quite a bit smaller naturally than Hagler)...he got schooled quite badly by SRL...and KOed Hearns...that's like 1-1-1...and he even has a couple bad losses in his resume to go along with those results.

I just think GGG is held to a bit of strict standard by those who aren't fans of his...but anyway good chatting man I'm sure we would agree on some other things.

[AKAcronym]

They didn't even try. The silence on the line when Andrade BJS and Dervy all raised their hands says they were only interested in soft touches to get a fight in before Canelo in September. Smart decision but we can't sit back and use rumor or a negotiation that was close by all reports when the IBF stripped Alvarez as a reason for Team GGG to not even offer Dervy the moment Alvarez was suspended.

As much as I didn't want the Vanes fight, you really think any of them are fighting Golovkin for 225k? There just wasn't enough money that HBO would be putting out to satisfy everyone's demands to salvage the May 5 date and make sure that the rematch in September wasn't at risk.

[Ake-Dawg]

Man almost every pro fighter that I am a fan of, was coincidentally a great amateur...just makes sense in a way that a lot of the great pros were some of the great ams...some ams can't compete at the pro level because it is a slightly different game, but those who can incorporate the stamina/chin/power into their elite boxing skills, end up being great.

GGG's am career even stands out among most others due to the reported 345-5 record...that's crazy!...especially for a guy from a non-elite boxing country (that can pull some strings in some fights)...and also on top of the record he piled up a lot of medals, including a silver in the Olympics.

And for the record, GGG said he got talked to by 'the powers that be' before that bout and they told him that one guy from Kazhakstan would be winning a gold medal in boxing, and it wasn't going to be him...take that with a grain a salt though if you want, as I do...but we can probably both agree that robberies (Floyd and RJJ come to mind) do happen quite often at the Olympics in boxing...very political.

Great ams who I really liked/respected their boxing ability - Floyd, Rigo, Lara, Loma, GGG, Usyk, Spence, etc...even going back a bit you have SRL Hearns etc...only notable recent exception to that list for me would be Ward.

Again some of GGG's dominance as an Am is due to him fighting as an Am until he was 23...but it's not like he was doing it until he was 30.

I actually think Wlad is a good comparison for him...never really thought of that one...GGG's 'reign' wasn't quite as long as Wlad's...in years or number of wins...but I agree it was a similar dominance level and level of opposition...I think GGG was a little more dominant since almost all of his wins were by KO but it was probably pretty similar...GGG also has no bad losses on his resume as Wlad does.

And honestly I've studied the resumes of quite a few ATGs...most of them have only 2 or 3 fights against what others would consider ATGs...and usually in those fights they are about .500...you could say the official record shows GGG to be 0-1-1 in his 2 fights...but I think he won both, and again most other fighters don't usually have many more than 2 or 3 fights vs other ATGs.

I do think it is fair to critique GGG and say that against a guy like Canelo who was coming up in weight, that GGG should have hurt Canelo more and won even more decisively than he did..but I just honestly can't really see the case that he didn't win both fights..just my opinion I suppose.

Take Hagler for example btw...he basically tied Duran (imo, accounting for the fact that it was close to a draw, and Duran was quite a bit smaller naturally than Hagler)...he got schooled quite badly by SRL...and KOed Hearns...that's like 1-1-1...and he even has a couple bad losses in his resume to go along with those results.

I just think GGG is held to a bit of strict standard by those who aren't fans of his...but anyway good chatting man I'm sure we would agree on some other things.

I think the converse is true. I think that GGG fans relax the ATG standards to fit GGG in. He is a true feel good story of hard work.

[Ake-Dawg]

As much as I didn't want the Vanes fight, you really think any of them are fighting Golovkin for 225k? There just wasn't enough money that HBO would be putting out to satisfy everyone's demands to salvage the May 5 date and make sure that the rematch in September wasn't at risk.

I find it hard to believe that the HBO budget for a Saunders or Andrade fight would have stayed the same. Especially since they could have made it ppv.

[yankees7448]

I find it hard to believe that the HBO budget for a Saunders or Andrade fight would have stayed the same. Especially since they could have made it ppv.

Did you not notice that HBO was out of the boxing game within a month of the Canelo/GGG rematch? Its hard to believe that anyone would think a network that would pull out ALL INVESTMENT in the sport within 5 months of the fight date in question would actually believe HBO would have added more money into the pot.

[yankees7448]

They didn't even try. The silence on the line when Andrade BJS and Dervy all raised their hands says they were only interested in soft touches to get a fight in before Canelo in September. Smart decision but we can't sit back and use rumor or a negotiation that was close by all reports when the IBF stripped Alvarez as a reason for Team GGG to not even offer Dervy the moment Alvarez was suspended.

I'm pretty sure we've had this discussion before. But in case we haven't and for anyone who still wants to believe this myth I will break it down again. GGG wanted to keep the fight date. He had trained for it. He was peaking for that date. Barring injury or defeat he could fight on that date and still have sufficient time to prepare for and promote the anticipated Canelo rematch in September. HBO only budgeted 1 million dollars for the fight. HBO would be completely out of the boxing game before Halloween that year so its silly to think they would have invested more if a higher quality opponent was brought in. BJS is not going to settle for some split of 1 million dollars to fight GGG on short notice. There was a signed contract for them to fight in August if the Canelo rematch fell through. I put that last part in bold to emphasize the silliness of bringing up someone GGG had signed a contract to fight in this part of the discussion.With all the delays in his career from being a diva at the negotiations table there was no way Demetrious Andrade was going to settle for chump change to fight GGG at the last minute. Sergei Derevenko already turned down 250k to fight Andrade so there is no way that he, as a mandatory opponent who could easily force a purse bid, would settle for that or less to fight GGG.