Comments Thread For: Lennox Lewis: Joshua Changed His Tune About Fighting Wilder

[goldenbear]

I remember differently Lennox

Lennox Lewis ducked all the best fighters in their prime and only fought them once on the downside especially after being knocked out by Oliver Mccall.

[Ake-Dawg]

I honestly believe both sides are playing everyone, but that’s my opinion. I would never say Wilder doesn’t want this fight because he is the B-side and he would end up making more than 6-7 times his listed payday. So yes that’s motivation enough.

For me this was a weird negotiation, this fight should be made with ease due to both fighters financial market value. There shouldn’t even be any delay from Wilder side. If I was managing him and I really wanted this fight, for this year then I would make sure that 12.5m dollar deal was signed, sealed and delivered. I would call Hearn bluff right away, coming back with 50m isn’t calling anyone bluff once it was rejected.

As much as I don’t think Hearn wanted that fight now! He has made 2 offers to Team Wilder, so even though I don’t think he wanted that fight now I still think he went out of his way to make that deal for whatever reason. This is why am blaming both sides for messing this up.

No one in boxing thinks that the 2 offers that Hearn made were "i want this fight now" offers. So I don't know how he "went out of his way to make that deal". Did he work hard to convince Team Wilder to take a bad deal? Yes. I just find it hard to blame Team Wilder (that much) for essentially not doing enough to make sure they got the bad deal that was being offered to them.

[Ray*]

I find it hard to say a guy who agreed to short money (ultimately) didn't want the fight. Even with the 12.5M offer, he still would have had to sign a contract with no date, no guarantee that he was Joshua's next fight, with no rematch clause in the case he lost, and face the same network issues that existed. The contract presented wasn't a I want to get this fight done type of contract.

Don't get me wrong, I fault Team Wilder for not calling the bluff sooner. As soon as the $15M flat fee came in they should have agreed to terms and requested a contract. That would have put Hearn in an awkward spot.

To me, both sides DID NOT want this fight. Wilder wanted it, as Lewis said, Team Joshua did not, as Lewis alluded to. Team Wilder didn't do what they needed to do to force the fight.

I honestly believe both sides are playing everyone, but that’s my opinion. I would never say Wilder doesn’t want this fight because he is the B-side and he would end up making more than 6-7 times his listed payday. So yes that’s motivation enough.

For me this was a weird negotiation, this fight should be made with ease due to both fighters financial market value. There shouldn’t even be any delay from Wilder side. If I was managing him and I really wanted this fight, for this year then I would make sure that 12.5m dollar deal was signed, sealed and delivered. I would call Hearn bluff right away, coming back with 50m isn’t calling anyone bluff once it was rejected.

As much as I don’t think Hearn wanted that fight now! He has made 2 offers to Team Wilder, so even though I don’t think he wanted that fight now I still think he went out of his way to make that deal for whatever reason. This is why am blaming both sides for messing this up.

[Ray*]

Since when $2.5 million is a deal breaker? Perhaps Wilder would have taken the $12.5m Flat-fee but Joshua requested a $50 million guarantee, in addition, to the upside of the pay per view sales and live gate.

However, Joshua wasn't permitted to keep it because he had been instructed by his promoters Barry and Eddie Hearn to return it so they could stage the fight in the U.K. Therefore he turned the offer down. To his credit, Deontay Wilder agreed and conceded to all of Anthony Joshua terms and yet still there was no fight.

So it's not hard to see who really wanted this fight to happen and the ones who were actually negotiating in good faith and it was definitely not AJ or his Team.

But nothing, if from the beginning Wilder didn’t put money as his main priority then we would have had this fight signed. You cannot sit there and make excuses for Wilder. Hearn should have never been given a chance to push this fight backwards, but all people care about on here was the “flat fee” like they are making some percentage of this fight.

[allenfred]

Ali Fraser delay had no comparison to the nonsense these Cats are laying on us...

Ali was not available due to legal problems...These
Dudes are both available Now...!

But most fighters delay the thought of losing and take easier fights. It's called the fight game. smoke and mirrors

[King Arthur]

Call that man Triple J, Juggernaut Joy Joyce, lol

I think he loses when he steps up, don't see him beating the top 4 of Wilder, (fit) Fury, Ortiz, and even AJ

Haha I like that, and you're right. To be fair to Joyce he has the attributes and physicality to be a problem at the top.

My concern is his advanced age turning pro. He might have the attributes but it's putting them all together during a fight which takes time as a pro. Its something he hasn't got the luxury of at 32. Unless he's got advanced learning and retention I see age being his biggest problem to prevent him from doing much at top level.

[Ake-Dawg]

If Wilder took short money we would have had this fight signed on the 12.5m flat fee. Try again. If Both sides wanted this fight it would have happened by now just like Lewis said. It takes two to tango.

I find it hard to say a guy who agreed to short money (ultimately) didn't want the fight. Even with the 12.5M offer, he still would have had to sign a contract with no date, no guarantee that he was Joshua's next fight, with no rematch clause in the case he lost, and face the same network issues that existed. The contract presented wasn't a I want to get this fight done type of contract.

Don't get me wrong, I fault Team Wilder for not calling the bluff sooner. As soon as the $15M flat fee came in they should have agreed to terms and requested a contract. That would have put Hearn in an awkward spot.

To me, both sides DID NOT want this fight. Wilder wanted it, as Lewis said, Team Joshua did not, as Lewis alluded to. Team Wilder didn't do what they needed to do to force the fight.

[joe strong]

Waste of time for you. There is no argument to be made, Lewis chose to retire rather then fighting Vitali again. I know what happened during, before, after, 10 years before 10 years after. Fact still remains Lewis chose to retire because he didn't want to fight Vitali. I Said Lewis was saved by the cut, I didn't say he didn't cause the cut. You forget, Vitali didn't train to fight Lewis either, Vitali would have been far more prepared in the second fight, and he would have destroyed Lewis. In Lewis' prime it would have been a better fight. But if your not just a fan of Lewis, you'd realize Vitali was the better overall fighter. Please don't attempt to give me a history lessons, I don't post unless I'm educated on the subject matter.

How was he the better fighter? You said you know the history then why did you say there was a rematch clause? Yes I like Lennox & I followed both careers but you are clearly making an assumption that he would of destroyed him all because he won 4 rounds. Vitali’s resume doesn’t indicate he is a better fighter. He feasted on overmatched opponents. The list of contenders in his era that he didn’t fight is pretty long. Two best opponents he fought 0-2. What is his best win? Peter? Arreola? Adamek? Briggs? Larry Donald? So you must be a Vitali fan if you think he is the better fighter...TKO 6. What were Vitali’s voluntary defences? Adamek, Sosnowski, Danny Williams, Chisora & Briggs, Arreola... Yep he was such a massive risk taker...

[EnglishOxide]

Explain how you came to this conclusion. When Wilder’s side was assuming all the financial risks. Especially when AJ isn’t a proven draw in America. Which is where the fight would have taken place had AJ accepted the $50M guarantee. The only thing we have to go on as far as AJ’s drawing power in America is his low TV ratings. Wilder’s ratings are actually better.

There is no way that Joshua is guaranteed that $50m if there is huge financial risk, IMO. Wilder fans were already saying Haymon makes money. He's right to be su****ious of the deal if they were so willing to get him to agree to it with no other discussions.

You said it yourself, Wilder has the better ratings. Yet his purses have never exceeded $2.1m and he has never done PPV. This deal would have been unprecedented and it is not proven that Wilders name generates the money.

Joshua risked being well paid or under paid depending on the financial performance of the fight. There ain't no sense in that deal as the A side because he always gets well paid from his fights already. Why risk getting the short end of the deal?

[R_Walken]

firstly, I agree.....

but my thoughts are slightly different

1) Hearn/Joshua are clearly avoiding that fight

2) Joshua is a fkn beast, and he WILL face Wilder when he is ready, I have no doubt about that..... I do not believe that Joshua fears any man, other than the healthy invigorating fear to which he is accustomed

3) Joshua/Hearn are ALL business at this point, especially with the super DANGEROUS Wilder..... which is smart, because with most of the fickle/ignorant observers in this era, you get ONE chance..... ONE!!

considering those points, the questions are.....

* should Joshua be blamed for what is likely a common-sense, and somewhat understandable decision/plan.....?

* should it affect his legacy at this point, and is it justification for fans to burn effigies of him at the stake?

the answers to those questions are actually more important/relevant than Lewis' comments were



A. Absolutely, who the fk else is there to blame? come on lol

the (his) fans should be needling Joshua..... and asking him whats up..... and they should be supportive of Wilder

Wilder made genuine attempts to fight the long-standing world #2 (Povetkin) long before Joshua did..... and Ortiz was a dangerous fight with little upside

Joshua is clearly to blame, and he should be held responsible

and NOPE, Hearn is not the boss..... and he never will be



NO, of course not....., throwing Joshua under a bus would be silly, it is clearly obvious what they are doing

he should be blamed for avoiding that fight, no question.....

but they are OBVIOUSLY setting up that fight for the SHORT-TERM..... we will not see 5 years of "marination"..... it is obviously a smart business decision, and aside from what the 8-minute-attention-span (casual) fans say, the total potential appeal for that fight has not peaked as yet

we have waited much longer for much bigger fights

my thoughts.....

1) I will continue to support BOTH guys, as I usually do in these situations..... (fk off Golovkin fans lol, your boy bull****ted me/boxing for YEARS, even I have my limits)..... BOTH are terrific fighters who I enjoy watching.....

2) NO WAY can you hold Joshua over Wilder at this point..... I do not care how many titles Joshua has, I do not care how many fans Joshua has, and I do not care that he beat Klitschko..... Wilder is just as relevant at heavyweight, and no matter which way you swing that is close to a 50/50 fight

I will go further on that..... Wilder is actually MORE relevant than Joshua, because he wants that fight NOW

I will continue to needle AJ, and I will continue to ask him whats up..... like his other fans should be doing..... and until that fight happens, I will consider Wilder the #1 heavyweight on the planet..... simply because, he wants that fight NOW

hard luck AJ, you know what to do about it

WAR Wilder..... WAR Joshua !!

when it happens..... may the best man win !

Good f.ucking post