Comments Thread For: Golovkin, Hopkins, Monzon: The Record at Middleweight

[Citizen Koba]

you may be right, thank you - depends on whether he fought Geale for the vacant title OR was handed it before the fight.

take your pick, gifted title or vacant.

14 I think. Geale was stripped of the title in Nov. 2012 leaving GGG as the sole remaining WBA MW titlist. So it's all his fights from Rosado onwards.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_WBA_world_champions

Either way it's a BS situation caused entirely by the WBAs inconsistency and/or corruption. The 'super' title was formed back in 2001, ostensibly for the purpose of reducing the burden of mandatories on Unified titlists, which although unnecessary (they could have just added a clause to their rules to reduce the number of defenses required for unified champs) at least had some logic behind it.

Then in 2009/10 they changed their rules to allow fighters with 5 or more defenses to become 'super' champs too... there was no logic (although there were allegations of money changing hands) behind this move and the sole beneficiary (at the time) was one Adnan Catic who was due to face a dangerous mandatory, a little known Kazakh called Gennady Golovkin...

[DreamFighter]

14 I think. Geale was stripped of the title in Nov. 2012 leaving GGG as the sole remaining WBA MW titlist. So it's all his fights from Rosado onwards.

no, he was not offically in ownership of the title until just before GGG, check his wiki thats when it was "given" to him.
(alrthough real boxing fans will consider it won against Geale in the ring, giving GGG's win and title more worth)


that link is full of flaws, have a closer look

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_WBA_world_champions

The rule is the same, you win a title from the titlist, nothing will ever change regarding that, unless its vacant.

being given a title is shyt.

[Lester Tutor]

14 I think. Geale was stripped of the title in Nov. 2012 leaving GGG as the sole remaining WBA MW titlist. So it's all his fights from Rosado onwards.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_WBA_world_champions

Either way it's a BS situation caused entirely by the WBAs inconsistency and/or corruption. The 'super' title was formed back in 2001, ostensibly for the purpose of reducing the burden of mandatories on Unified titlists, which although unnecessary (they could have just added a clause to their rules to reduce the number of defenses required for unified champs) at least had some logic behind it.

Then in 2009/10 they changed their rules to allow fighters with 5 or more defenses to become 'super' champs too... there was no logic (although there were allegations of money changing hands) behind this move and the sole beneficiary (at the time) was one Adnan Catic who was due to face a dangerous mandatory, a little known Kazakh called Gennady Golovkin...

Don’t lie. Sturm and Gennady’s handler’s both weren’t happy with Universum. All wanted out. This caused a problem with the fight happening. Sturm was ok with the WBA but said he said as long as Universum was not a part of it. I guess he couldn’t buy his contract out and had to sit idle like Arum fighters in JCC jr., M. Garcia etc...

[Citizen Koba]

no, he was not offically in ownership of the title until just before GGG, check his wiki thats when it was "given" to him.
(alrthough real boxing fans will consider it won against Geale in the ring, giving GGG's win and title more worth)


that link is full of flaws, have a closer look

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_WBA_world_champions

The rule is the same, you win a title from the titlist, nothing will ever change regarding that, unless its vacant.

being given a title is shyt.

No, he wasn't 'super' titlist, but since there was no 'super' titlist between Geale being stripped and Golovkin being elevated then I think Golovkin's defenses as the sole WBA champion during that period must be counted towards his defense total - as if it really matters anyway.

And yeah. Sure. Being 'given' a title is always unsatisfactory.

Like I say though, this whole sorry mess comes down to the WBA being a bunch of incompetent crooks. The way it's fucked up there is no good or logical answer to the question, so the answer is pretty much whatever you choose it to be.

[Citizen Koba]

Don’t lie. Sturm and Gennady’s handler’s both weren’t happy with Universum. All wanted out. This caused a problem with the fight happening. Sturm was ok with the WBA but said he said as long as Universum was not a part of it. I guess he couldn’t buy his contract out and had to sit idle like Arum fighters in JCC jr., M. Garcia etc...

The fuck does that have to do with what I said, window licker? Did the WBA change their rules and then elevate Sturm (meaning he didn't have to fight Golovkin) or not?

Sturm was unhappy with his contract from what I've been able to find out and Golovkin was unhappy because they wouldn't let him fight Sturm. What bit about that makes me a liar?

EDIT: Mmm. Actually. Fuck you Turkish. I might be mistaken from time to time, but I've never knowingly lied about **** in all the time I've been on here... you wanna go there, man, I'm gonna put you on ignore.

[DreamFighter]

No, he wasn't 'super' titlist, but since there was no 'super' titlist between Geale being stripped and Golovkin being elevated then I think Golovkin's defenses as the sole WBA champion during that period must be counted towards his defense total - as if it really matters anyway.

I disagree, one cant pretend that non worldtitle fights are title fights just because there is no world champ...or else everytime someone is deposed then someone somewhere is clocking up title defences without winning the title.


you either defend the title that you have, or you dont, you cannot just chose someone to be champ like a new hat to wear though i agree the WBA have been incompetent at times.

[Lester Tutor]

The fuck does that have to do with what I said, window licker? Did the WBA change their rules and then elevate Sturm (meaning he didn't have to fight Golovkin) or not?

Sturm was unhappy with his contract from what I've been able to find out and Golovkin was unhappy because they wouldn't let him fight Sturm. What bit about that makes me a liar?

EDIT: Mmm. Actually. Fuck you Turkish. I might be mistaken from time to time, but I've never knowingly lied about **** in all the time I've been on here... you wanna go there, man, I'm gonna put you on ignore.

Find the articles on boxingscene you dork. Golovkin wanted out of Universum too. If two fighters have conflicts with their promoters would it be a walk in the park to make it happen?

It’s like Loeffler and Abe with their child lies about Ward before. Just cause Loeffler said things about Sturm doesn’t mean they were true. Boxingscene also covered it and I bumped those threads before

[kafkod]

you may be right, thank you - depends on whether he fought Geale for the vacant title OR was handed it before the fight.

take your pick, gifted title or vacant.

It's a lot more complicated than that!

There had been no WBA super title at MW for 2 years till GGG was promoted. It disappeared after Geale was stripped for refusing to fight a mando with GGG.

The WBA super title is, or was, supposed to be awarded to unified WBA champions only, according to the WBA rules. By that I mean WBA champs who also held another belt, with another sanctioning body, as well as the WBA. That's why, if you look at the WBA records, the super title appears and disappears from time to time.

So GGG should have become super champ immediately after he won the IBF from Lemieux. But for some reason, which was never explained, the WBA waited till after the Geale fight to promote GGG.

[Citizen Koba]

Find the articles on boxingscene you dork. Golovkin wanted out of Universum too. If two fighters have conflicts with their promoters would it be a walk in the park to make it happen?

It’s like Loeffler and Abe with their child lies about Ward before. Just cause Loeffler said things about Sturm doesn’t mean they were true. Boxingscene also covered it and I bumped those threads before

Again with the diversions, you capering fool? Did the situation with the WBA elevating Sturm happen or not?

[eco1]

Monzon was the best of the 3